Upgrade policy

inyoon

Hi all,

I just had a quick question regarding the upgrade policy for 1Password. I'm debating getting the Mac and Windows bundle from AgileBits' Education Store, but feel like 1Password 5 is about to come out relatively soon (correct me if I'm wrong). It seems like according to AgileBits' upgrade policy (https://agilebits.com/home/licenses), I will have to buy 1Password 5 even if I get 1Password 4 now, which I'd rather avoid (but it also sounds like, according to their FAQ, that the upgrade from v3 to v4 was free). Should I just wait for 1Password 5? Will it come out soon? Will there be an upgrade fee or will it be free? Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

littlebobbytables

1Password 5 for Mac will likely be released soon after the release of Yosemite and that probably isn't far off now (see a post by chrisdj as to why this is likely). AgileBits have stated it will be free like the update from 1Password 4 to 5 for iOS. Here's a link to their blog post where they said:

We are announcing that, for Mac and iOS users, our updates coming this fall for Apple’s OS X Yosemite and iOS 8—yes, including our awesome new Safari and in-app extension—will be free for current owners.

hzhong

Is the upgrade policy the same for purchasing from Mac store and from AgileBits? The upgrade policy says it's not.

inyoon

Awesome, thanks so much for the response, littlebobbytables! That clears things up.

thightower

@hzhong‌

Most likely the upgrade policy will be the same across the stores. I am not staff and therefore cannot say with 100
% certainty but if past history is any indicator it will be. AgileBits has a multitude of folks across both stores and it would not be fair to allow one to upgrade and not the other. 1Password 4 was a paid upgrade after all no matter which store you used.

edit : Found a post from @Megan‌

https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/146800/#Comment_146800

hzhong

Thanks thightower.

As a normal user, I understand we cannot expect free upgrades forever, so it's good to know that AgileBits has been generous in certain cases. However, other than "upgrade" policy, how about "support" policy? For example, if I buy 1password 5 when it comes out, I do expect it to be "supported" for a very long time, in the sense that AgileBits should make sure it keeps working with newer Mac OS versions and patch any security issues/fix bugs. The upgrade policy mentions that we are entitled to free upgrades until the next major version. Does it mean the old version will no longer be "supported" when the next major version comes out, and if 1password stops working with the next Mac OS X we are out of luck?

Can someone clarify the support cycle here?

Megan

Hi @hzhong,

Does it mean the old version will no longer be "supported" when the next major version comes out, and if 1password stops working with the next Mac OS X we are out of luck?

We do our best to support all versions of our software, and we'll never not attempt to help a user because they're still using 1Password 3 (for example) instead of the latest and greatest version.

Since we haven't even released our Yosemite update to 1Password yet, it's a little early to start speculating about when support will be 'removed' for this latest and greatest version. :) One thing to keep in mind though is that technology is moving forward at a rapid pace these days, and often there are great new tools available to us in newer operating systems that were not available previously. In order to take advantage of these new tools, we need to build our software to work with the newest operating systems available. If you're continually upgrading your operating system to the latest version, it makes sense to do so with your software as well.

That being said, we'll always do our best to ensure that 1Password is working smoothly for you, no matter what operating system you're using.

hzhong

Thanks Megan.

You may want to revisit how the current upgrade policy is written. Since it's very short, I'll just quote the entire text here:

When you purchase AgileBits software your license will never expire and you can use it on the current version of the licensed application indefinitely. While the license itself will never expire, system updates from Apple could cause certain aspects of some software to stop working. For example, the Safari 5 upgrade stopped 1Password 2 from working correctly and required an updated version of 1Password.

Historically, AgileBits has been very generous with upgrades. Your purchase entitles you to free updates until the next major version upgrade. That means if you buy a license for version 2 of a product, you will get all 2.x releases for free, but upgrading to version 3 might require another purchase.

Please note that this upgrade policy is valid only for software sold and distributed directly by AgileBits. This policy is not applicable to software sold by other distributors, including the Mac App Store, iTunes App Store and Android Marketplace.

After reading this, it raised a couple critical questions to me:

1. It does not address how 2.x would be supported after 3 is released. It even implies it's not by saying "Your purchase entitles you to free updates until the next major version upgrade". I think you meant "Your purchase entitles you to free updates for maintenance releases with the same major version." As far as I am concerned, I think with the current price tag 1password should be supported to a minimum of 3 years, ideally 5 years, so it continues to support the latest OS with security and bug fixes (no new features needed).
2. It says the policy only applies to licenses distributed directly by AgileBits, especially not including Apple's App Store. I heard that only apps sold through the App Store can use iCloud, is that true? In any case, I suspect a lot of people do buy from the App store just for convenience if nothing else. Then what's the policy on that? Why is there a difference?

It's nice to see your reply with some more detail, but I feel it'd be much more comforting to see the official policy clarified. As of the current writing, it's really badly worded, and I suspect that's not really your intention either.

Thanks.

littlebobbytables

@hzhong 3-5 years support in terms of updates? Just my personal opinion but I think your expectations are very high.

In the past 5 years Apple have released 5 updates (I'm including the soon to be released Yosemite). That means you're looking for compatibility from Snow Leopard, through the Lions, Mavericks and then Yosemite. I'm not aware of many companies supporting that many very different versions. Heck, the last update to Snow Leopard was 2011, Lion was 2012. In a surprising move Apple issued a bash fix for Lion and onwards but that's a serious flaw people are comparing to Heartbleed and the only update issued in two years. 10.4-10.6: 2 years support from Apple, 10.7-10.8: 1 year support from Apple.

In regards to your iCloud query, I believe you're correct in what Apple have stated but it isn't something they're enforcing. Could they at some point in the future? yes and a few people have purchased via the App Store for peace of mind. It may also be something they never enforce - hey, it's Apple ;)

hzhong

@littlebloody‌ that's fine. You can say my expectation is high. I'd been a Windows user for many years and have just started using Mac in the past 2 years. I don't know how well Apple keeps backward compatibility but Microsoft has been excellent about this (no matter how you think about it in the "innovation" point of view), and most major Windows applications keep running for a very long time, definitely more than 5 years. Of course, if Apple breaks apps compatibility with their updates, it's not really AgileBits' fault per se, but it's a problem for the users, and all I ask for is clarification on the policy so I know how well my investment is protected, or how often I have to pay to upgrade to keep using 1Password.

The fact is, Mac OS X updates has been free and will probably keep being so in the future, so people are going to upgrade when they get a chance (just like iOS). And there is iCloud Keychain which does not work as well as 1Password in many ways but will be at least free.

hzhong

@littlebloody‌

My apologies for misquoting your ID. I wasn't used to the forum's autocompletion and picked the wrong suggestion it gave me.

thightower

@hzhong‌

Its not just you it gets all of us. My favorite is it sometimes removes the user name when you start typing. Drives me nuts. I almost have it committed to muscle memory now.

MikeT

Hi guys,

@hzhong:

It does not address how 2.x would be supported after 3 is released. It even implies it's not by saying "Your purchase entitles you to free updates until the next major version upgrade". I think you meant "Your purchase entitles you to free updates for maintenance releases with the same major version." As far as I am concerned, I think with the current price tag 1password should be supported to a minimum of 3 years, ideally 5 years, so it continues to support the latest OS with security and bug fixes (no new features needed).

Of course, if Apple breaks apps compatibility with their updates, it's not really AgileBits' fault per se, but it's a problem for the users, and all I ask for is clarification on the policy so I know how well my investment is protected, or how often I have to pay to upgrade to keep using 1Password.

It is virtually impossible for us to know what will happen in the future and that's why our policy is based on current versions rather than making promises that we may not be able to keep in the future.

Your purchase gives you the current major version that's supported on specific current OS X version, you get free updates for that specific major version and your purchase will always work on that specific OS X version. It doesn't make any assumption about the future, there is no support contract that comes with it. As long as your setup doesn't change, 1Password will work forever with no restrictions on your license.

The only thing we can do is tell you our history and that is, we're still helping users using Leopard with 1Password 2 app through our support system, you can see on the forum here that we're still giving help to 1Password 3 customers.

We never reject anybody asking for help, we have an awesome customer support team that strives to help everybody that needs it, versions do not matter nor if they have a license or not. We will do everything we can to help everybody that's contacting us. Without our customers, we wouldn't be where we are, so we know it is vital to have a human customer service behind our products.

In any case, I suspect a lot of people do buy from the App store just for convenience if nothing else. Then what's the policy on that? Why is there a difference?

The policy is the same as the App Store's policy here, all apps at the Mac App Store have the same policy.

The difference is simply that Apple's selling the app, not us. They handle everything on their side and we can't change things around if we want to.

Right now, there are no paid upgrades allowed at the Apple's App Stores for Mac and iOS. Once you release an app at the Apple's App Store, every updates and upgrades to that specific app must be free. That's why our policy is specific to our web store only because that's the only thing we can control.

One thing to keep in mind that is Apple's App Store improves over time. Just now, they allow discounted bundles for iOS apps from the same company, family sharing to share app purchases between family members, and so on.