I am "accused" of multiple copies of 1Password when the alleged copies are in backup volumes attache

bill2301

I have (obviously) copies of 1PW in the back up drives attached to my startup HD. 1PW thinks they are duplicates, which the are, literally, but not on the startup HD. Why is this happening now? It never did before.

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1Password Version: 6
Extension Version: 6.0
OS Version: 10.11.2
Sync Type: None
Referrer: ug:mac/, ug:mac/multiple-vaults, ug:mac/create-a-new-vault, kb-search:multiple copies, kb:error-connect-to-mini

dkolb

I am having the same difficulty and when I do a spotlight search I get a long list of one password items in small directories but none of them contain the .app file, although there is Agent. I can't do the update and the main program locks itself up it seems like every two minutes. What to do?

Drew_AG

Hi @bill2301,

I'm sorry for the confusion about that message! There are some problems that can happen if OS X finds other copies of the 1Password app, and that can include backup drives. By showing the message during the update to version 6, we're trying to help avoid those potential problems.

To make a long story short, when 1Password triggers an event that has OS X launch 1Password mini, and the system finds multiple copies of it, it can launch the wrong one, which ends up giving you an error and prevents the 1Password app from opening correctly. Unfortunately it's not something that we're able to control. We added the message you're seeing to ensure that when OS X goes looking for the 1Password mini, there's only one that it can possibly find.

In order to avoid a problem, we recommend deleting the 1Password app from your backup drive(s) (and if possible, exclude the 1Password app file from future backups). Your actual 1Password data is stored elsewhere on your Mac, so that will still be backed up. If necessary, you can always download a new copy of the app from our website, so you don't really need a backup copy of it.

I hope that helps to explain why you're seeing that message. If you have more questions about it, please let us know! :)

bill2301

Hi Drew,
I have excluded 1Pw from my Carbon Copy Cloner daily backups and it will be some while before the backup files are clear of 1Pw files. I'll ignore the warnings when i see them. Pw 5, 4, 3, etc. never showed this "problem" and I wonder why it shows up in 6. Surely the search algorithm can differentiate between the startup volume and other volumes. No other app that I have encountered in 30 years of Mac experience has been bothered by an inert copy on a connected volume. Surely your programmers can "lock out" connected volumes before connecting with the 1Pw mini on the Startup volume if that is the proximate cause of the "problem."
Computers are supposed to work FOR me, not make me work for them.
I am not convinced is my (and all other users'!) problem; this is a deal breaker for me.
Best regards,
Bill

hawkmoth

@bill2301 - The problem, as @Drew_AG explained, isn't something AgileBits has control over. It's an issue with the operating system that causes too aggressive searching across volumes. I believe that I recall the culprit being something called launchd. I don't have any idea myself what launchd does, but it's built into the most recent versions of OS X, including Yosemite and El Capitan.

I sped up getting 1Password backups off my Carbon Copy Cloner volume by opening the volume itself and finding the 1Password application. I thought perhaps that might help you too. It worked for me, and I din't have to await its clearance from the archives that way.

I also seem to have helped myself by excluding my backup drive from Spotlight searches.

I went for quite a long time too without ever encountering this issue, but one day it appeared. That was before 1Password 6's release. You'll find other earlier references to the problem in the forum. I would guess that your having the association with version 6 is a coincidence. Or maybe something brought to the fore by the new updater processes that warn users to delete other copies.

bill2301

Thanks, I have always excluded backup volumes from Spotlight searches so that is not a, or the, problem.

I remain totally unconvinced that it is a operating system problem that cannot be overcome by 1Password's programming. If that were true the problem would be ubiquitous but it is not.

I've seen similar problems which were said to be beyond help but the truth was simply that the programmers did not want to do it.

I will ignore the warning messages and if I encounter problems I will solve MY problem by quitting using 1Password. Guaranteed to work.

All the best,

Bill

ag_kevin

Hi @bill2301,

@hawkmoth is correct. launchd (or more specifically Launch Services) is responsible for launching apps and processes. When 1Password wants to start 1Password mini (the secondary app that puts the icon in the menu bar and controls access to your vaults), it does so by asking Launch Services to run it. Also, when you set the 1Password mini to run at startup, it tells launchd to do it.

Launch Services decides what to launch based on an app id, and does not accept a specific path. Most of the time it figures out which one to launch and remembers which one it ran, but sometimes it finds the wrong copy and launches that one first. Sometimes this is ok, but when there are version mismatches, that's when problems occur. This is the issue we are trying to avoid.

It's possible and likely you've never come across this issue. What you are seeing now not the issue happening, but 1Password being more proactive about telling you how to avoid it. If ignoring the warning is working for you, then please continue - you are not experiencing the problem. If you come across any issues with respect to unlocking 1Password, or updating problems, you may wish to try removing the extra copies then.

Until Launch Services allows a preferred path to be specified, there's not much to do about this problem other than advise users to remove extra copies of 1Password. And if you have other suggestions on how to solve this, we're all ears; please let us know. We want to solve this problem as soon as we can.

And of course, if you have any other questions, please let us know.

Regards,
Kevin

bill2301

" Most of the time it [Launch Services} figures out which one to launch and remembers which one it ran, but sometimes it finds the wrong copy and launches that one first."

Now my question is why does only 1PW have that problem while all the other apps with similar multiple copies do not have it?

Why is the "call" from 1PW to launch the mini app problematical and not if I manually launch it or launch it from my Log In items? Why doesn't it get "confused" when I ask it launch Lightroom or any other app?

Something HAS to be different when the launch "call" comes from within 1PW.

Digital devices can't act anthropomorphically and become "confused." I certainly can but 1PW can't so what is going on? Your 1PW app is doing exactly what you have designed it to do, whether it is what you want or not.

Telling me about its "remembering" and "confusion" just won't wash.

Best regards,

Bill

dkolb

Also, Support still h sn't told me what to do when I can't find any .app files, just keychains, Agent, and so on. Is the .app buried in Agent in the backups?

David K

AGAlumB

Now my question is why does only 1PW have that problem while all the other apps with similar multiple copies do not have it?

@bill2301: Sorry for the confusion! 1Password doesn't have a problem here at all. Frankly, 1Password has no control over this, and doesn't care either way. However, as a user, you'd care if you get stuck with the dreaded "Cannot connect to 1Password mini" error. If you never have, you're probably rolling your eyes. But when it does happen, it's often happening to folks that have no idea that they have multiple copies, which is why we added this warning — to help make people aware of the issue so they can get help before they run into a problem at what generally seems to be a very inopportune time. And of course you're welcome to ignore this. I do, because (as you can imagine), I've got a lot of copies of 1Password on my system. Sometimes it's a pain when this issue bites me, but that's the life I've chosen. You're free to make the same choice, but simply retaining a single copy can save you a lot of hassle.

But more to the point, most apps don't have a separate component to run in the background. It simply isn't necessary. More on that later.

Why is the "call" from 1PW to launch the mini app problematical and not if I manually launch it or launch it from my Log In items? Why doesn't it get "confused" when I ask it launch Lightroom or any other app?
Something HAS to be different when the launch "call" comes from within 1PW.

It doesn't. It comes from the OS X launch daemon, named (naturally) launchd. I'm not sure what Lightroom has to do with this, but 1Password specifically has the 1Password mini process which OS X needs to launch and keep running in the background to facilitate communications with web browsers, so you can, yknow, use 1Password there even without the 'main' app open.

Digital devices can't act anthropomorphically and become "confused." I certainly can but 1PW can't so what is going on? Your 1PW app is doing exactly what you have designed it to do, whether it is what you want or not.
Telling me about its "remembering" and "confusion" just won't wash.

It's a metaphor, man. But seriously, if there are multiple copies of 1Password present, OS X will often launch the wrong copy of mini, and for your security, each copy of 1Password will only communicate with it's own mini. I hope that helps clarify the situation. :)

AGAlumB

Also, Support still h sn't told me what to do when I can't find any .app files, just keychains, Agent, and so on. Is the .app buried in Agent in the backups?

@dkolb: Unfortunately we don't have any way of knowing where you've got things stored. After all, it's your computer! However, if you're still having trouble finding where you've put the extra copies of 1Password, just send us a diagnostic report so we can help you track it (them?) down:

https://support.1password.com/diagnostics/

Attach the entire file for each to an email to us: support+forum@agilebits.com

Please do not post your Diagnostics Report in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report in our inbox.

You should receive an automated reply from our BitBot assistant with a Support ID number. Please post that number here so we can quickly track down the report and ensure that it is dealt with quickly. :)

Once we see the report we should be able to better assist you. Thanks in advance!