Android to PC Sync Issue

55208wcgk

Hello,

I have 1PW v6.6.2 (with Pro Features enabled) running on a Samsung Note 8 Android phone. I'm syncing it via WLAN with a 1PW v4.6.2.626 installation running on a Windows 10 PC.

The issue I'm having is that the username & associated password fields on my PC are not all syncing to my Android phone.

Any thoughts as to why?

Thanks

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1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

55208wcgk

To clarify: not all of the usernames & passwords on my PC copy are synching into my Note 8. The records themselves are, but not these two fields in some of them.

Thanks for the help

AGAlumB

@55208wcgk: What kind of vault are you using, and where/when was the data entered? I wonder if you have an old vault that used a slightly different format. You may be able to view the data by editing these items on your PC, which will update their data. Otherwise, are you using custom fields in these items instead of the default username/password fields from the item template? WLAN Server doesn't support some of this with older formats. Let me know what you're working with!

55208wcgk

Hey, Brenty

Vault is local stored on my PC. Data was entered quite a while back. Years, I’m guessing.

I did edit try editing both the username & PW fields, saving them & then resyncing. Still didn’t see them on the phone.

Fields are custom.

Didn’t have this issue when I was syncing to an iPhone.

55208wcgk

One more thing - I do see other custom fields syncing. Just not the username / pw fields.

AGAlumB

@55208wcgk: Right, what I'm saying is that the default username and password fields are not custom fields. So it sounds like are those syncing, but you are creating additional "username" and "password" fields in addition to those which are not. Is that correct?

Can you tell me which vault type you're using? It sounds like it will be AgileKeychain if it's very old. Using OPVault should help in that case, but there's a couple thing to consider:

• OPVault is a newer format which is more CPU-intensive, and 1Password for Windows version 4 is not accelerated as it wasn't built for that. So you will see a performance hit if you change.
• However, Dropbox sync doesn't not have the same data limitations as WLAN Server (which was also developed long ago), so that may allow you to use AgileKeychain and have 1Password for Android read all of the newer data structures.

It really depends on your preference, but something to keep in mind is that your 1Password data is end-to-end encrypted, so 1Password simply doesn't depend on the sync service to protect your data. 1Password is secure by design, not by chance. So you can get the same security with Dropbox sync with a bit more convenience, both as far as compatibility and avoiding having to manually sync the data.

1Password 6 has much better performance since we've built it up from scratch using the newest tools from Microsoft, but currently it works only with 1Password.com accounts. However, you may want to consider a 1Password.com membership, since it gives you access to all of the apps, the web interface, and does away with license management and sync configuration altogether — you simply login to your account to authorize a device and access your data. You can try it for free for 30 days to take advantage of all of its benefits. Either way, let me know how you'd like to proceed and I'll be happy to help! :)

55208wcgk

Brenty, some follow-up questions:

The directory structure on my PC is ".agilekeychain". How would I upgrade to an OPVault? The PC the vault is running on is a first generation MS Surface Book so I would hope there would be enough juice to make performance acceptable. Would I have to upgrade on both the PC & my Android phone? BTW, I have approximately 1,500 records in my vault, though I am trying to reduce that total.

I understand what you're saying about Dropbox but that takes me down the same data-hosted-in-the-cloud path I'm trying to avoid. And to be clear, it isn't only that I want to keep may data local, which I do, but from what I'm reading I don't think I can customize the 1PW6 as I can v4. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

For ex., in v4, I have Sections set up in each record - for ex., Section A might be vendor info, Section B warranty info, Section C product specs, etc. Can I recreate that in v6?

I already know I have to ditch a directory structure in favor of tags in v6 & am still trying to get my hands around why that is better. Can you take a stab at clarifying?

Thank you, sir. I appreciate the help.

AGAlumB

@55208wcgk: You're totally welcome! We're not there yet, but the extra detail helps a lot. :chuffed:

Brenty, some follow-up questions:
The directory structure on my PC is ".agilekeychain". How would I upgrade to an OPVault? The PC the vault is running on is a first generation MS Surface Book so I would hope there would be enough juice to make performance acceptable. Would I have to upgrade on both the PC & my Android phone? BTW, I have approximately 1,500 records in my vault, though I am trying to reduce that total.

I've got a Surface Pro myself, and while yours certainly will edge mine out in performance — likely by a wide margin — nevertheless OPVault will almost certainly be noticeably slower when unlocking and searching than what you're used to. 1Password 4 was designed before the proliferation of (nearly) ubiquitous multi-processing, and simply hasn't scaled well as a result. OPVault, due to its more advanced database format, just takes more resources, and while it works in 1Password 4 it is not the experience we want it to be — which is why we're developing the new codebase to be more efficient.

As far as upgrading to OPVault, it is not a super-easy procedure, but it will only need to be done once, on your PC, and then you can sync the data to your Android device (you'd need to reinstall 1Password for Android to set it up with the new vault). Because of this, I would encourage you to only convert to OPVault if you're determined to stick with a local vault and WLAN Server, since that can solve the problem you're having with that configuration. You'll still have the performance hit on Windows though, so that's why I wanted to present other options: Dropbox (using the AgileKeychain you already have), or 1Password.com (which, frankly, will give you a better experience on all platforms, provided you're on board with the other matters discussed below).

I understand what you're saying about Dropbox but that takes me down the same data-hosted-in-the-cloud path I'm trying to avoid. And to be clear, it isn't only that I want to keep may data local, which I do, but from what I'm reading I don't think I can customize the 1PW6 as I can v4. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's a legitimate concern. 1Password 6 does not have all of the features 1Password 4 does. However, it has come a long way, so I'd suggest checking it out, or at least asking about specific features you have in mind. You might be pleasantly surprised. :)

For ex., in v4, I have Sections set up in each record - for ex., Section A might be vendor info, Section B warranty info, Section C product specs, etc. Can I recreate that in v6?

Yep! Custom fields and sections are supported. While I appreciate that you might be used to the UI in 1Password 4, I prefer 1Password 6 for this now, as it's easier to navigate (no separate window for editing, and fields can be moved around a bit).

I already know I have to ditch a directory structure in favor of tags in v6 & am still trying to get my hands around why that is better. Can you take a stab at clarifying? Thank you, sir. I appreciate the help.

Totally! And that's a great point. In spite of the fact that to some extent "tags versus folders" is subjective, there are a couple reasons why I feel comfortable saying tags are superior, and they come down to flexibility.

From a user perspective, folders are binary, meaning that an item either belongs to a particular folder or it doesn't; and item cannot belong to multiple folders, so you're really making an organizational commitment when you assign an item to a folder. Tags don't have this limitation. This also means we can do pretty much anything we want with the UI. It's pretty basic right now, but we've got some ideas for how we want to make them easier to manage in the future. Right now, they work similarly to folders, except that you can assign multiple tags to an item, which, frankly, saves me a lot of hemming and hawing I used to do about where to file things. Should my in-use credit cards be organized by the bank accounts I pay them with, or the websites where I use them to buy things? Now, the answer is easy: both.

From a technical perspective, folders are a mess. Sync conflicts are common, and since 1Password.com means more of us are working with more data, often in a family or team environment with shared vaults, folders are untenable. What happens when someone assigns an item to one folder, but someone else chooses another, and then both connect to sync their changes to the server? There isn't a good answer, so this was an important change to ensure that 1Password scales with large groups of people working with the same data.

It isn't going to help you now, so I understand if you have a workflow involving folders that you'd prefer to stick with for now. But, for example, in the future, we could perhaps make it possible to "nest" tags, using UI that makes them work more like folders if people want them to, without limiting them so much.

Hopefully this helps a bit, and I'm happy to answer any other questions as well. :)

55208wcgk

Appreciate the feedback, Brenty.

Just so I’m clear on it, the issue with agilekeychain is that custom username\password fields I add to a record on my v4 PC will not sync to my Android phone? If that’s the case, it sounds like the simplest thing to do would be to go with default record username\password fields & then make any additional such fields plain text. Does that make sense?

Also, is the issue (custom un\pw fields not syncing to my Android phone) related to a particular card type? An Account\Generic or Account\Server card, for ex.?

Regarding v4 versus v6 features:
1. My read from your last post is v6 supports record sections & fields being moved about – would like to confirm that as that is something I like.
2. If so, can v6 Sections be renamed & reordered like fields can? This is not doable in v4 & would definitely be something in the v6 plus column if allowed.
3. Your point about hemming & hawing over what directory to place a record is valid. While some records have a clear home, at least in my mindscape, there are others that I find myself moving around as my initial location logic shifts. To that point - & I know this is subjective :-) - how would you tag a record that I now have in this directory structure: “computer\software\pc\security\1pw\”?
5. How about your credit card example? Can I ask how you tag them?

A final question: can you summarize features in v4 that are not present in v6?

I know you’re pushing v6. I get that - it’s the company’s next generation product & you don’t want to keep getting questions like I’m throwing at you. That’s fair & I’m fine with that stance. That said, I & apparently quite a few others in the forum, need to make some decisions. Do we stay where we are on v4 & wait for v6 local storage & for the v6 feature set to catch up to v4 or do we make the switch & grit our teeth until that happens?

I do plan to test the v6 30-day eval, but it would really help me cut to the chase to have some baseline items to compare. Hope this is doable.

Thanks again, Brenty. I do appreciate the help. 1PW has been my go-to app for some time now & I don't want to give it up, but I can obviously only continue to use it if it works for me.

55208wcgk

Sorry, one more question: would my renaming the "username" tag be an issue? Say I change it from "username" to "support ID", for ex.

55208wcgk

Okay, just found something interesting.

I tested syncing two different card types - Account\Generic or Account\Server. I created & populated each card with data on my PC & then synced them to my Android phone.

While the Generic card itself synced to my Android phone, the Usename\PW data did not.

This is where it gets interesting.

I then added a Server card & did the same test. Not only did the Username\Password data sync but custom UN\PW field data I also added to this card did as well.

Thoughts?

peri

Hi @55208wcgk. Just to clarify, you can indeed sync and view custom fields on Android--you just can't create them from Android. If they're created from another device, you'll be able to see them on Android. Reordering sections is not supported at the moment, either from Android or Windows, but I'll pass the request on to my team!

That said, 1Password 6 for Windows has nearly the same functionality as 1Password 4 for Windows, with a few differences. Auto-Type is supported in 4 but not 6, and folders, which are only supported in standalone vaults, are not supported in 6. Also, since a membership is required for 1Password 6, standalone sync options are not supported either.

That said, 1Password 6 has some pretty awesome improvements as well. It has a sleek, modern UI, the ability to view multiple accounts and vaults at once without signing out, Security Audit features, a new and improved 1Password mini, and it will automatically copy your TOTP fields to the clipboard after filling so you can easily paste them in.

I do encourage you to install it and give it a try, so you can see these awesome features for yourself!

55208wcgk

Hey, Peri

I'm confused.

You say that v6 has nearly the same functionality as v4 but Brenty is saying - in the above thread - v6 does not have all of the features v4. He does call out that it has come a long way so I'm just trying to get a handle on what that actually means before test driving v6.

The other thing confusing me is my syncing issue. Brenty can correct me if I'm misspeaking but I think he's acknowledging that there is an issue syncing custom username/password fields between a v4 PC & Android device. I definitely found that to be true. In exploring further, it seems the solution is to either change the card types I'm creating - a Generic Account to a Server Account - OR make custom username/password entries text fields. The following is what I previously posted:

Okay, just found something interesting.

I tested syncing two different card types - Account\Generic or Account\Server. I created & populated each card with data on my PC & 
then synced them to my Android phone.

While the Generic card itself synced to my Android phone, the Usename\PW data did not.

This is where it gets interesting.

I then added a Server card & did the same test. Not only did the Username\Password data sync but custom UN\PW field data I also 
added to this card did as well.

My question about Sections refers to the v6 version. I know I can't reorder or rename Sections in V4 but was curious if that could be done in v6.

I will try the v6 eval but in the interim I sure would like to get this sync issue resolved.

Thanks, Peri!

AGAlumB

You say that v6 has nearly the same functionality as v4 but Brenty is saying - in the above thread - v6 does not have all of the features v4. He does call out that it has come a long way so I'm just trying to get a handle on what that actually means before test driving v6.

@55208wcgk: Yep, we're splitting hairs here. 1Password 6 does have nearly all of the features 1Password 4 does, meaning it does not have all of them. :lol:

We each have our pet features, so to many people 1Password 6 is already feature complete — but those of us who work on this every day or depend on certain features in 1Password 4 will know there's still work to do. ;)

What's confusing is that Peri and I are both right not only there, but with regard to custom fields. They are supported in 1Password for Android, but there are incompatibilities with WLAN Server and the older AgileKeychain format, which I outlined above.

The other thing confusing me is my syncing issue. Brenty can correct me if I'm misspeaking but I think he's acknowledging that there is an issue syncing custom username/password fields between a v4 PC & Android device. I definitely found that to be true. In exploring further, it seems the solution is to either change the card types I'm creating - a Generic Account to a Server Account - OR make custom username/password entries text fields. The following is what I previously posted:

Yeah, what I outlined above includes all the options for dealing with the issue you're having with sync/data incompatibilities. I'm sorry that it's that involved, but there are things to consider with each approach.

If, however, you can get onboard with 1Password.com and 1Password 6, that will avoid any sync issues or incompatibilities (provided you've got recent OSes). I just know that for someone used to folders it isn't a no-brainer, and there are downsides to the alternatives (changing sync method or vault format). So I'd encourage you to try that first, since if that fits into your workflow the rest is irrelevant.

1. My read from your last post is v6 supports record sections & fields being moved about – would like to confirm that as that is something I like.

Yep! Me too! It's in there. :)

2. If so, can v6 Sections be renamed & reordered like fields can? This is not doable in v4 & would definitely be something in the v6 plus column if allowed.

While it is possible to move custom fields in 1Password 6 on Windows, they can only be moved within their section — e.g. you can't move a custom field up into the section of the default template. We want to make that possible for sections too in the future, and make it more intuitive overall as well.

3. Your point about hemming & hawing over what directory to place a record is valid. While some records have a clear home, at least in my mindscape, there are others that I find myself moving around as my initial location logic shifts.

Well, I really appreciate you taking that in good humour, because I can now see that might be taken the wrong way. I definitely have struggled with spending more time organizing things than getting stuff done, so for me tags helps break that pattern. I didn't mean to imply that you're the same as me, just give and example that might be at least relatable. :blush:

To that point - & I know this is subjective :-) - how would you tag a record that I now have in this directory structure: “computer\software\pc\security\1pw\”?

I think we've lost question 4. Is this it? :lol:

Honestly, I would give it all of those tags individually. But I know some folks will use that as a single, monolithic tag. It isn't ideal right now, but search helps a lot with stuff like this. And that's an area which, along with tags, we'll continue to make more powerful and useful.

5. How about your credit card example? Can I ask how you tag them?

This is pretty basic, and I can't come up with a super-exciting example...but each thing I have setup for autopay has a tag for the credit card or bank account associated with it. That way, when I cancel or get a card replaced, I can easily find what, if anything, I need to update (e.g. Discover shows me everything associated with that card). And then for Amazon, iTunes, etc., I have those tagged as well so I always have a clear picture of things. Really though, it's a matter of personal preference, since the way I do things may not mesh well with your (probably more advanced) financial setup. Related Items, which is a 1Password.com feature, is probably something I should make better use of. :lol:

A final question: can you summarize features in v4 that are not present in v6?

I couldn't tell you exactly, and 1Password 6 also has a lot of features 1Password 4 doesn't (which simply weren't possible before). But off the top of my head I know that Auto-Type (for filling in apps), filling from the password generator, and local vaults are among the top requests.

I know you’re pushing v6. I get that - it’s the company’s next generation product & you don’t want to keep getting questions like I’m throwing at you. That’s fair & I’m fine with that stance. That said, I & apparently quite a few others in the forum, need to make some decisions. Do we stay where we are on v4 & wait for v6 local storage & for the v6 feature set to catch up to v4 or do we make the switch & grit our teeth until that happens?

I really don't mind the questions at all. I just think you'll immediately get a sense for if 1Password 6 is a good fit for you if you try it. :)

I hear you: it's totally a decision we wish you didn't have to make. it would be much easier if you were just deciding to move to an account, or stick with local vaults. It just wasn't possible for us to do everything at once, so we had to start somewhere. 1Password 7 will have both, and make things much easier for everyone. I'm just sorry that this burden is placed on you in the mean time, but I'm happy to help in any way I can. :blush:

I do plan to test the v6 30-day eval, but it would really help me cut to the chase to have some baseline items to compare. Hope this is doable. Thanks again, Brenty. I do appreciate the help. 1PW has been my go-to app for some time now & I don't want to give it up, but I can obviously only continue to use it if it works for me.

Yep! Totally. We wouldn't have it any other way. Even if 1Password 6 doesn't have everything you need right now (or simply is enough of a change to your workflow that you can't justify switching at this time), we'd love to hear your feedback as we keep working on it to make it a no-brainer for you and others in the future. Cheers! :chuffed:

55208wcgk

Thanks, Brenty / Peri. Really do appreciate your patience & insights. Sometimes in email & texts "tone" can be misunderstood & I don't want that to be the case here. In that spirit, I will eval v6 & share my thoughts.

Brenty, as to my sync issue it sounds like, while not ideal, that I can correct my sync issue by changing my Generic Account records to Server Account records. Can it be that simple? It would be a pain in the a- solution but still a workable one. That certainly seems to be the case but I don't want to update all of them only to find myself back in the same not-syncing boat.

Thanks again, guys.

AGAlumB

@55208wcgk: I'm not sure I'd want to do that myself, but it's totally your call ("Generic Account" is a legacy item type, and I'd prefer Logins since they can be used for filling). I guess it depends on how many, and I'd prefer to switch to Dropbox in your case since that's should to be the lowest friction — if you're ready to make the jump to 1Password.com. Definitely let me know if there's anything I can do to help! :)

55208wcgk

Will do. On another note, do you guys have a user beta testing program? If so, is it open to anyone interested?

AGAlumB

@55208wcgk: We do! Normally I just point people here:

Use 1Password beta releases

But since you're already active here in the forums I'd be remiss if I didn't also direct you to the requisite beta forums, where you can leave and find feedback from other users:

1Password beta forums

The one I'm most excited about currently is Windows, since we've got some cool things coming in 6.8; and you can find the release notes for all versions on our update site:

1Password updates

Cheers! :)

55208wcgk

Cool. Will check them out.

Last ? - can you create templates in v6? A customized S/W record, for ex. that can be used as a starting point for like records.

AGAlumB

Cool. Will check them out.

@55208wcgk: :sunglasses: :+1:

Last ? - can you create templates in v6? A customized S/W record, for ex. that can be used as a starting point for like records.

Nope, but it's a not-so-secret beta feature in the 1Password Teams Pro plan. This has been most requested by companies, but it's a long-standing dream of ours to have this kind of customizability...so if we can get this working well and supported in all of the apps (once everything is finalized) we'd love to make it available to all 1Password.com accounts. Here's hoping! In the mean time, I find it useful to create "template" items and Duplicate them. Cheers! :chuffed: