Multiple vaults functionality [Will be improved]
This may have been discussed or mentioned previously (I did a search but didn't find anything):
The current use-case for multiple vaults is sound, and I understand having separate passwords and sync options for different vaults. Nicely thought out.
The one thing stopping me from using multiple vaults at the moment is the way the data is presented. If I understand it correctly, it's currently necessary to manually switch between vaults and enter the password for each vault each time so you are only viewing the data from one vault at a time.
While this is secure, I guess, it reduces the usability of the feature massively - at least for me. Both myself and my wife have 1Password and have our own personal vaults, but we would like to have another vault for shared accounts. The issue here is the huge hassle of switching vaults constantly and having to keep typing passwords in. This problem being exacerbated on a phone where typing secure, complex passwords is a real chore. I guess if the TouchID API were opened up... well, let's hope.
It would be nice if it were possible to use 1Password in much the way iCloud services work with multiple accounts for apps such as Calendar, Contacts, Notes and so on, where you have access to either 'Account 1', 'Account 2' or 'All accounts' - the latter displaying all data in one list. This makes the organisation and viewing of data eminently usable, as more than 90% of the time I want to view everything in one list.
How a change like this would accommodate the security of multiple vault passwords I don't know. I guess that's a workflow issue for you, AgileBits.
Does anybody else have this same use-case issue? Is anyone else avoiding multiple vaults because they're more hassle than they're worth, or is it just me?
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I need it, too. The idea of having to store some passwords in one place and some in another place is unwieldy. I'll have to look them up constantly. I would love it if I made a change in one vault that automatically updates in another vault.
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Ooh, yes that's an idea. In essence, I'd be happy to have them all in one vault but to assign them to categories perhaps - then have separate sync options for different categories maybe, which would allow me to sync a category with another user. I don't know what the solution is.
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Hi @Lightwave and @royalwise,
Thank you for the feedback on multiple vaults!
First off, I just wanted to cover one subtle point about how vaults are set up. Your Primary vault is special - it has the ability to unlock all your secondary vaults. So, once you have unlocked your primary vault, you won't need to enter the Master Password of your Secondary vault when switching to it. This means that when your Primary is unlocked, you can switch between them without having to enter any Master Passwords - until the auto-lock settings kick in, of course.
Also, are you aware of the keyboard shortcuts for switching vaults? They are pretty awesome :) When 1Password Mini is open (after hitting the Command-\ keyboard shortcut, for example), simply press Command-1, Command-2, etc to switch to the respective vault. This can make it quite a bit quicker!
That said, I do totally understand the wish to have all items show up in the list, no matter what vault they are in - this is definitely something that we are looking into improving.
Thanks again for your feedback!
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Hi @Lightwave,
I'm glad to hear that helped!
On iOS, to switch vaults, just go into Settings > Vaults and choose the vault you want to use! If you are not seeing them there, then you can tap on Add Vault and select the appropriate agilekeychain file in Dropbox.
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I'm also exploring the EXACT same use case, storing shared accounts for me and my wife in a separate vault. I think what would make it less painless is that the lookup (for example when pressing Cmd-) wouldn't only search the current vault, but "related vaults" as well. Ideally, for the Primary Vault, I’d have the ability to check additional vaults that need to be searched (in this case the vault I want to share with my wife). If I’m in any other vault than the primary one, that wouldn’t work. So if I’m in the Archive vault, it would only use the info there, and I would not link that to be “searchable” from the Primary Vault.
Would that be a solution? I personally like that more than entries “syncing between vaults”.
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This use case for multiple vaults has been requested multiple times since 1pw4 first saw the light of day. Even though unlocking the primary vault unlocks the shared vault I share with my wife, it's still unwieldy not being able to see items in all the vaults at the same time.
First, my wife is not tech savvy and expecting her to switch back & forth between vaults just isn't going to happen. I'll simply get questions over and over of "where did the xxx go? I know it was here before!" Second, even if she & I would routinely switch, remembering what's where or for instance logging into a shopping site from our individual primary vault to purchase something, switching to the shared vault to find the credit card info, switching back to the primary vault for our personal Identities info, etc. is cumbersome, time consuming and a pita.
I keep hoping and looking for an "All Vaults" display/search option with each release. No joy yet...
Rick
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Hi Rick ( @oshloel )
Thanks for adding your thoughts here! Our developers are listening. As has been mentioned before, multiple vaults is still a relatively new feature, and there's a lot we can do to make it bigger, stronger, faster ... and more user friendly.
Your patience (and ongoing feedback!) is much appreciated here. Keep it coming! :)
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Thanks @rdouma and @oshloel for the support, and yes, we're all experiencing the same pain. I think you both raise some interesting points, further to my own, about search and parent/child visibility of Vaults. I think there are a couple of excellent real-world examples highlighted by Rick of how extra clicks and workflow steps can be a huge barrier for people who either 'don't get it' or find it even a minor inconvenience.
From a commercial standpoint, user workflows have to be as smooth as possible and I acknowledge and appreciate that AgileBits developers take this feedback seriously.
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Hi guys,
While this isn't a workaround, for the non-tech-savvy folks you're sharing vaults with, if they do not need multiple vaults, they can just use your secondary vault as their primary vault. They wouldn't have to worry about switching vaults or anything like that. Of course, they would have to be properly informed that everything they put in 1Password will be sync'ed to you but this would reduce some of the pain growths.
This is what I did for my mother, I set up a secondary vault, and sync'ed it to her iOS device. She only need to know the vault password and only deals with that specific vault as the primary vault. No switching, nothing, and I can just write secure notes in the vault for whatever she need info from me.
Some folks didn't know that they could do this and thought they had to first set up the primary vault, then add the secondary vault as the secondary vault. That's why I'm bringing it up here, just in case. We'll work on simplifying the workflow to make this clear.
We do want to find a way to let you view all of your data at once, this would reduce a lot of the complexity for all levels of users.
If you guys have other use cases that is not bought up here, please do let us know. The more cases we can analyze, the wider range we can adapt to when we figure out the best possible solution for all of these.
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Re: Comments from Agile Samurai Administrator - Excellent. I really like the multiple Vaults. As a tech savvy user, I have 3 vaults - my primary, one for my wife, another for my mother. I had created "Primary" vaults for my mother and my wife (which were "empty"), then connected to my secondary vaults. But they never remembered how to switch to a secondary vault. Now, knowing that my mother's and my wife's "primary" vault can be the "secondary" vaults that I created and shared, simplifies things so much.
I can certainly understand that new features, such as vaults, take quite a while to develop and then to document. But I would like to see the User Guide and the FAQs updated a little more frequently with helpful insights and hints such as these.
Thanks to AgileBits staff for developing such a great product and having active participation in the discussion boards.
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+1 from a user who loves the idea of shared Vaults but has found the implementation to-date to be more trouble than it's worth. (I'm waiting for secondary vault functionality in the Android app minimally, although the ability to have a unified search experience across vaults would be a huge help as well.)
I haven't seen one thing listed as a possible workaround, which leads me to believe that perhaps I don't understand how the below functionality works. The below article describes the concept of "sharing" a login between two vaults.
Is one possible workaround to manually "share" login items from the secondary vault to each user's primary vault? That way each user would only have to search their primary vault for logins. That leaves open the question of password changes, whether the "sharing" functionality is bi-directional between each vault or not, etc. The documentation is very sparse on this feature - it would be good to have more detail on how password sharing across vaults works.
http://learn2.agilebits.com/1Password4/Mac/en/Features/multiple-vaults.html
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With respect to the use case of one tech-savvy user (me) and one non-savvy user (my wife) mentioned above where we have yours, mine and ours items/vaults: I originally had primary vaults for each of us and a shared vault for common items such as CC data, shared logins, passport info, etc. It was a huge PITA to change a shared item since I would have to copy it to each of our primary vaults on our separate laptops in order for the shared item to be easily accessible when needed; particularly, by my wife as mentioned above.
I finally tumbled to a much better solution similar to what MikeT mentioned above. I tagged all the shared items with a "Shared" tag and made sure they were up to date in each of our primary vaults. I then eliminated the shared vault, leaving each of us with a primary vault in our respective DropBox accounts and all shared items tagged. Lastly, I shared my wife's 1PW dropbox folder over to my dropbox account and made her primary vault my secondary vault.
The result is that she has only one vault containing both "hers" and "ours" items that's fully available on all her devices. No futzing around with multiple vaults for her. I likewise have a single primary containing "mine" and "ours" items. Since I now have full access to her primary vault from my laptop, any time I add/edit an item with a Shared tag, I can immediately and easily copy it over to her primary vault without needing access to her machine, remember to do it later, etc. Next time she fires up 1PW, it's just there.
In our situation, this results in essentially the same workflow steps I would have anyway if we continued with a shared vault and 1PW allowed the requested searching/viewing across multiple vaults. The only case where I have to manually make changes in both vaults rather than just one is to completely delete a shared item.
A concern for some might be that the tech-savvy party has full access to ALL of other person's primary vault; however, it's not an issue for us since my wife is non-techy and I already had full access to her primary from her machine just to maintain it in the first place, so no secrets there!
Rick
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Hi @EnerJi
I sincerely apologize for the confusion regarding our multiple vaults docs, I'll be sure to mention that to our documents team. As I've mentioned above, these guides are currently being upgraded - we'll do our best to clear things up for you there!
Unfortunately, due to the way that vaults are encrypted, it is not possible to "share" items so that they are kept in sync between vaults. I can certainly see how the wording in the current document would lead you to think this, but items should really only live in one vault or the other. Hopefully a unified search will help make it easier to find all your data, regardless of which vault it is in. :)
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Hi Rick ( @oshloel )
Thanks so much for providing details on your 1Password set-up. I'm glad to hear you've found a solution that works for you ... although I do apologize that it is a bit more complicated than would be ideal. I've passed along your thoughts to our developers. We'll do what we can to make vaults more user-friendly for both the tech-savvy, and the not so tech-savvy users out there! :)
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