Vaults - I don't get the point

Options
k8user
k8user
Community Member
in Mac

So, your spouse thinks he should have the bank and investment passwords. You think his 1Password password is over-used and too easy to figure out but in the interest of saving your marriage you cave and set up a Vault.
You put one login into it and update the password. The next day you need to check something at that bank - but your password doesn't work! A half-hour later (find forums, search and read forums, register, confirm email) you discover that Vault items don't sync. The Vault is an entirely separate entity. So now you live your life in your primary but the important items that you MUST share with your spouse are in a separate place and don't sync with your primary.
What am I missing? This doesn't make sense to me. It is way harder than going into the other room, getting my MacBook and showing him what he wants to see at the account.
It is also endlessly confusing to my spouse. I have barely convinced him that a password manager is a good thing and all he has to do is click on the little key in his browser, he doesn't have to memorize passwords or keep a spreadsheet labelled "passwords". He will never figure out that he has to change the "Vault".
1Password - if you are developing software for the nerds and technically savvy people who can type well, see the keyboard easily, and remember that there is one more place to look for a password, then you are doing a good job. I don't know how your software works for vision-impaired or movement-impaired individuals - maybe you have that covered - but for people whose first use of computers was with Lotus 1-2-3 and who have never progressed beyond that or for those of us who are not 30 years old - I don't think your software, particularly Vaults, makes much sense.
Sorry.
Kate

Comments

  • Megan
    Megan
    1Password Alumni
    Options

    Hi Kate ( @k8user )

    Thanks so much for providing this feedback here. I do apologize that multiple vaults has been a bit complicated for you. As with any new feature, our developers are still working on how to make multiple vaults as user-friendly as possible, and we've been listening to users thoughts on just how we can do that.

    Yes, secondary vaults do sync separately from the main vault. This allows you to do things like share only some of your Logins with your partner, or your co-workers, while keeping your personal information private. The instructions on how to share a non-primary vault will help you get things synced up with your spouse.

    Again, I'm sorry if this isn't the easiest feature to get used to. Please let me know if you have any further questions and I'd be happy to walk you through. (We certainly want to ensure that your marriage is saved!) :)

  • askewchan
    askewchan
    Community Member
    edited June 2014
    Options

    I am 30 and technically savvy, and I find the vaults system less than ideal even when well understood. I use a secondary vault for the sole purpose of sharing a subset of my logins and other items, and have little use for them for organizing my items (tags are much better for this purpose). When I search for an item, I'd like to find it regardless of which vault is currently active, and I'd also like to be able to fill with ⌘\ without switching between vaults until it works. Therefore, I would love to have at least one of the following:

    1. An item can reside (or sync between) two vaults. As described by @k8user‌, if I change a password in my primary vault, I'd like it to change (if shared/linked) in any secondary vault that it's been copied to. When I right-click an item and go to share > vault, I see options to either move or copy. I'd love to have have a third option to link (or overwrite the current copy behavior) which keeps a link to the same item in each vault, so that if it's changed in any one vault it gets changed in both (all).
    2. Global search (and browser extension access) across all vaults simultaneously (or an easy way to specify which vault(s) to search without changing the active vault). Some great solutions to the search issue are described well by @jfelchner.
  • Megan
    Megan
    1Password Alumni
    Options

    Hi @askewchan‌

    Thanks so much for the feedback here! As it stands now, your option 1 is not possible, due to the way that vaults are encrypted. However, don't despair! Option 2 is a popular feature request and I'd be happy to add your vote to the issue in our tracker. As I mentioned above, our developers are listening to all user feedback, and we're committed to making this feature even better for you all in the future.

  • Smudge
    Smudge
    Community Member
    edited June 2014
    Options

    Megan, here are a couple of ideas I just had while reading over this post. Please consider them and pass along to the developers if you think it would be possible.

    Keep the vaults as separate files but allow a secondary vault to be configured as a "linked" vault. It would act the same as any other vault when accessed directly (user switches to the vault within 1P or opens it directly like a Work vault) but that vault's password could be stored as a "linked vault" entry within the primary vault. When the primary is unlocked, 1P then knows about any of these linked vaults and can unlock them itself automatically.

    This would allow 1P to have multiple vaults open at the same time so that...

    • 1P would sync any entry changes between the vaults upon opening them
    • 1P would continue syncing each vault separately (just like when syncing a single vault between devices) but then sync those changes between vaults
    • The user would have (search, use, edit, etc) access to the entries in all open vaults

    Depending on the modularity of how your developers implement such a system, it could have additional features like...

    • Access permission levels; full access for the top level user (parents) and read only access to lower level users (children)
    • Multiple levels of vaults; Personal as primary vault. A linked vault between spouses (with full access) which then has another linked vault in it for the children (which is read-only to them)
    • When you add a new vault, 1P would ask if it should be a normal, separate vault or as a linked vault to any existing vaults it knows about.

    Here is a quick sketch of what I'm thinking.

    image

  • mdh98368
    mdh98368
    Community Member
    Options

    I just want to add my voice to the chorus... However it is achieved under the hood, it should be possible to indicate that a particular password (say) should be kept in sync across vaults. Given that you can already share a vault using a separate keychain on Dropbox, say, why can't a primary vault sync with an shared but hidden vault that exists only for the purpose of keeping things in sync? In other words, in addition to "Move" and "Copy" options, there would be a "Linked" option as discussed above and under the hood, it's using the sync/sharing capabilities that already exist. A bit of a hack, but clearly the ability to sync across vaults already exists (or the sharing with a spouse use case couldn't work).

    Regardless of how it's ultimately implemented, the Linked functionality would really make the multiple vault use case compelling.

  • Megan
    Megan
    1Password Alumni
    Options

    Hi @Smudge,

    Thanks so much for providing such detailed feedback!

    Keep the vaults as separate files but allow a secondary vault to be configured as a "linked" vault. It would act the same as any other vault when accessed directly (user switches to the vault within 1P or opens it directly like a Work vault) but that vault's password could be stored as a "linked vault" entry within the primary vault. When the primary is unlocked, 1P then knows about any of these linked vaults and can unlock them itself automatically.

    This is essentially how vaults are set up now. Your primary vault holds the encryption keys for all secondary vaults. So when you unlock your primary vault, you can switch to any of your secondary vaults without using that vault's Master Password.

    I know that this doesn't currently give you the functionality to sync items between vaults as you suggest, but I imagine if we introduced a global search for all vaults, it would go a long way towards eliminating the need for items to be stored in multiple vaults at the same time. This is one of my favourite feature requests, and I'd be happy to add a vote there for you as well.

    I can't comment much more on the upcoming features we have planned for vaults, but your thoughts here are much appreciated!

    .

This discussion has been closed.