Nothing but regret moving to Family + Windows 10
This migration to family pretty much just ruined my wife's night/mood. After years of both of us happily throwing money at 1Password for every new version, I'm shocked at the Family answer on Windows 10. At this point I fully regret jumping us in so quickly.
1) Having to use alpha software from the Win 10 store to support family, which doesn't even support browser extensions (yes, I know why) is extremely disappointing.
2) After installing the new Win10 version, adding her old local vault + new family vault, migrating all password to family, then removing old vault, she'd still always be asked for her old local vault password. Even when only vault on Windows is the Family sync'd ones. We had to completely uninstall and reinstall the app to get her correct master password to work.
Now we hear that in some number of months we'll need to uninstall this version and reinstall some newer version of 4.x that finally supports family to get the basic things working like browser extensions? Until then she's left copy/pasting everything between Chrome / 1Password, manually creating logins, etc.
All the charm of that Family "you completed ye quests" email was lost on us because of this Windows answer.
At the end of the day we'll march on and a year from now it'll all be fixed. I know you can only dev so fast. But man, having such an obviously pre-1.0 answer for Family on Windows 10 left a sour taste. I feel like a fool being an early adopter.
1Password Version: 2016.2.1500
Extension Version: Joking, right?
OS Version: Win 10
Sync Type: Family
Comments
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@parrots01 I know your feeling, when something doesn't work right out of the box it leaves that sour taste. And I know it hard way - whenever I show app to my wife and it doesn't work right, I'm the one who will have to sleep on a couch without meal.
Browser extensions is our next big thing, I can't promise dates for obvious reasons. Just want for you to know - this is something we are experimenting on. It's just not that we can copy old code from desktop version and paste it to the new technology (on the bright side Windows 10 universal platform is more secure and runs on many kinds of devices, on the dark side it adds more struggle for something that was simpler before).
About that "old local vault password", I'll talk to the team to make sure we make it clear to good people - first password you use becomes your master password. When you open new vault or sign in to new team or family (and you can sign in to many teams or families!) you provide that vault/team/family password to open it, then you use master password to continue access to that team/family/vault. It's more like it works on all other 1Password products, but not like it is for Windows desktop app, which opened each vault individually. TLTR; I've got your confusion, we will try and address it.
There is a way to change master password, just click Settings\Options\Change master password. There is no need to reinstall app for that.
Thanks for your feedback, it really helps to see which areas need more focus.
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First, thanks for taking the time to respond. I do appreciate that.
The "first you enter is your master password" makes sense, and is a convenience when you have multiple vaults. But When we go through the trouble of being told we need a new master password for Family and we remove the old vault it does feel weird to have the old password continue to work. If we had kept all 3 around that'd make sense.
Does that mean if through the family portal a master password on a vault is reset for someone, their master password on devices is still the old one? I'd expect that to sync up.
For what it is worth we did try changing the master password in the Win10 app, and that never seemed to take. Hence the fallback to a reinstall. Sorry I should have mentioned that to aid in reproduction of the issue.
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You are right to expect your master password from web to be exactly the same on your device @parrots01
I'll make sure we pay more attention to that confusion with master password on your device vs master password on your account. While it's easy for me or my teammates to feel the difference (because we are running it hundred times a day), we should not forget that people face it without knowledge and experience we have. Thanks for your feedback, it helps a lot!
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@dahanbn, if you'll let us know in your other thread exactly what Teams/Families features are missing from the beta app for Windows 10 devices, we'd love to hear from you.
Thanks again!
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I am sorry for the trouble and confusion, @dahanbn and @parrots01. I was extremely excited about our Families announcement and allowed too much of that excitement to spill over into the Windows side of things. You're right, we set the wrong expectations for Windows, and I shouldn't have done that.
While I'm pretty happy with where the Windows 10 team is after such a short period of time, it is indeed a 1.0 release and so it lacks a lot of the bells and whistles that you have become accustomed to in 1Password 4 for Windows.
Combined with the fact that browser extensions are being developed separately and the Windows 10 adoption rate is not as high as I'd like, Windows in general simply wasn't ready for a website and blog post with the level of polish we presented it with. It set the wrong expectations and I'm sorry. I've updated the website and the blog post accordingly. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us and helping me come to this conclusion.
I thought you might find it interesting how we got here, so I'll ramble on about that now. Consider the rest of this post optional but with any luck you'll read it and enjoy doing so :)
In the beginning, we had tried to add support for Families into the existing 1Password app on Windows. That would have been ideal as we had spent over 6 years developing it (version 1.0.0.36 was released on April 19th, 2010) and a ton of features were added over those years.
In the end we decided that we needed to start from scratch with an entirely new version. This is always a scary thing to do in software development as I prefer that you iterate yourself towards your goal instead of starting over. We decided we needed to this as there were several things that the older technology we were using couldn't do.
Things like Accessibility support and High DPI support needed modern libraries and required us to upgrade our entire tool chain to get them. We also wanted to make the Windows experience as consistent with the other platforms as possible and so we wanted to use the local database approach used by the other apps. The local database would allow for features like switching between vaults and an offline data cache.
There were too many opportunities to pass up so we decided to write a brand new app. And that brings us to the second half of the story: what kind of app? In Microsoft's new world we had the choice between a fully sandboxed modern app or an old school "non-Metro" app (sorry for the name confusion; I desperately wish that Microsoft would return to the "Metro" naming as it made things so much easier to talk about).
There were benefits to both approaches so we decided to run two parallel tracks. One team would create a sandboxed Windows 10 app and the other would focus on creating 1Password mini for interacting with the browser extensions. We're still executing on this plan and the Windows 10 team has made a lot of good progress. The browser extensions side of the world is not ready to be shared yet but they are getting closer every day and I hope to be able to share more here soon.
Going forward I hope to be a lot better with the marketing materials and blog posts as they relate to Families and Teams and Windows. To help with this I ordered a new Surface Pro 4! I actually have been trying to buy one ever since I saw Panos Panay announce it back in October. I tried to order it at least 3 times since the announcement and I kept getting frustrated during the purchase process and gave up.
This week I tried again, and yet again I got stuck, but this time I was mentally prepared for it and started a chat with their support team. They were able to lead me through the labyrinth and my Surface should arrive soon! I even got the expedited shipping option so I wouldn't have to wait another week :)
Thank you for your passion and helping us to make 1Password and 1Password Families as best as it can be. 1Password for Families is super exciting and I can totally see how frustrating it would be that we don't have it ready on the Windows side of the world. We'll get there.
Take care,
–Dave Teare
AgileBits Founder0 -
Just to add my voice to this one -- even with the marketing changes I've just been round this same loop. Got the offer email, signed up, and over the course of the next day discovered it wasn't baked and cancelled.
I've been happy in the past to recommend 1Password, and I'm sad that I can't do that any more.
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@drybones: I'm sorry that you haven't had the smooth ride you were expecting with 1Password Families. Being an early adopter is never easy. Even though it can be exciting to try something new, there are often some sharp edges, and it isn't always the seamless experience we want it to be.
That's part of the reason we've given 1Password Families early adopters extra storage, additional members, and up to 4 months free (depending on when you signed up). That way, there's no risk to trying something new, with time to evaluate it and see if it's right for you.
Thanks for giving 1Password Families the once-over, and for letting us know about your experience. Fortunately, you can continue to use the 1Password standalone app if you prefer that.
We're sorry to see you go, but we'll continue to improve it based on everyone's requests and criticism, and hopefully we'll be able to better meet you and your family's needs in the future. :blush:
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I've always thought it was just me having a hard time with 1Password. I have never gotten 1Password to work. I constantly request new passwords from my vendors. My wife just keeps all her passwords on a spreadsheet. Her method works. I'm lost with 1Password.
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I'm sorry for the trouble and confusion you're having @aauno, are there any specific issues you've been running into that has made using 1Password difficult? I'd love to work more closely with you to solve the issues you're having and help you get back on your feet. If you're free to chat a little more, you can email me at support+windowsmodern@agilebits.com.
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@aauno: Indeed, from your description it sounds like you don't have the correct passwords saved in 1Password, so when you try to login to an account it fails, and then you have to do a password reset.
This is definitely something that comes up from time to time, as folks start using 1Password to be more secure, and they generate some really awesome random passwords for their logins...but forget to update the password on the website itself, which can cause them to get "locked out". If that describes your situation, let me know.
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