Try 1Password 7 before I buy

Hello,

as a long time 1Password User next I would switch from V6 to V7. Unfortunately I have read a lot about problems and "not so good" changes between V6 and V7.
Thats why I would like to try V7 before I would purchase a standalone Version.

A little bit about my current settings and using.
Currently I'm using 4 vaults. They are synched locally each to a folder on my mac. (Configured in Settings -> Synchronize where I could define a target/folder for each vault). These local stores are synced over a private WebDAV sync to 1Password on another Mac.
And I am synchronising my primary vault with my iphone/ipad.

There are al lot of great marketing blog posts and messages. But I can't find answers for the following questions:
1. Is my current setup also available in V7?
2. What about the feature of locally synching vaults to folders? About WLAN sync I found that it is available in V7. Could I sync more than one local vault over WLAN?
3. Is it possible to try V7 without license purchase and membership registration? Maybe for a few days.
4. If I'm not satisfied with V7 how could I switch back to V6?

Regards
Ulrich


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for getting in touch! Glad you asked. :)

    1. Is my current setup also available in V7?

    The setup you describe has never been supported.

    1. What about the feature of locally synching vaults to folders? About WLAN sync I found that it is available in V7. Could I sync more than one local vault over WLAN?

    1Password for Mac version 7 has the same WLAN Server and Folder Sync features that version 6 did, so yes.

    1. Is it possible to try V7 without license purchase and membership registration? Maybe for a few days.

    You can install 1Password 7 to try it in "read only" mode before purchasing: https://1password.com/downloads/

    1. If I'm not satisfied with V7 how could I switch back to V6?

    Install version 6 and open your existing vaults in it. But it might be easier to just leave the version 6 database alone and just pick up where you left off, since version 7 will not have modified your data in "read only" mode while you're evaluating it.

    I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

  • Hello Brenty,

    thanks for the information.
    Always gald to hear, that my currently working setup isn't supported by the software :);) But for now its working for me.

    Great to hear that I could test V7 before I definitely switch to the new version. Will try today.

    Regards
    Ulrich

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Just because the square peg can be made to fit into the round hole doesn't mean that it was intended to go there. A round peg would be a much better solution. :) Please let us know how you make out.

    Ben

  • I have bought a license for 1Password7. Sorry for the money.
    I was a very happy and satisfied user since version 2 (i think around 2008).

    But the new version is the worst peace of software I have on my mac for a long time. Never ever had so much app crashes as with 1 password 7 (Except the adobe creative suit :chuffed:)

    So here is my story after a few hours using the new version:

    • First start after installation: Seems the program starts to migrate the data. App crashing. :'(
    • Next start. A few seconds. App crashing. :'(

    • Third start. It is running. Is now everything fine? Maybe. Its running without a crash. For the moment.

    • First look on the new UI. Maybe I will love it in the future. But I favor the old layout with labels left and field contents right.
    • We are at version 7.2.2. And UI isn't fully translated. Some menu items and controls have english text. :(

    • Uups. All my folders are gone and new nested tags appeared in the tag list. Stupid - there were some tags with the same name as the converted folders. Everything messed up. A warning or the possibility to rename the folders would by nice. But why should we help the user a little bit!? :'(

    • Sorting favorites by drag&drop: Gone away. Have to use alphabetical list. If you try to reorder the items using drag&drop. App crashing. :'(

    • Starting WLAN Sync to iPhone (after complete reset and delete of all data on the iPhone). Uups 1PW window on macOS constantly flickering. Item Count in sidebar constantly change. One up, one down... And synch never stops. Running and running and running.

    • After object count on iPhone is the same as on macOS i stop 1Password on iPhone. In the macOS application object count in the sidebar says a few objects fewer than before the sync. Exiting 1PW on mac and restart it shows the old, correct object count as before the sync.
    • Why are the folders gone in macOS 1PW? On iOS I have them. And its also version 7.2.2. And I couldn't work or remove them on macOS. But they must be elsewhere in the database. After fresh sync they appear on iOS.

    • Perhaps, some of the problems are with the data maintained across multiple 1PW versions (from V2 until V6).? Looked into help menu and find tools. First I tried Tools->Optimize Database. Saying it had actualized 14 items. Which one and why?

    • Or is the folder information from version 6 the root cause for my problems and application crashes? Selecting Tools -> Migrating folders to tags (maybe it is labeled different in english. I am using german language)... Next app crash. Not a one time shot. Reproducable. :'(
    • After a few hours working with the newest version I have between 12 and 15 crash reports on my system.

    • Synchronizing vaults to folders worked in 1PW6 like a charm. Never worried about incompatible data between 2 or 3 macs synchronizing via folder sync. Now I have constantly to check if data is valid across all macs synching.

    Maybe you have some tipps or information to make me a happy V7 user. And no. I don't want to have a membership and sync data to AgileBits Cloud. I would like to have this data on my local systems.

    Ulrich

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited November 2018

    I have bought a license for 1Password7. Sorry for the money. I was a very happy and satisfied user since version 2 (i think around 2008). But the new version is the worst peace of software I have on my mac for a long time. Never ever had so much app crashes as with 1 password 7 (Except the adobe creative suit :chuffed:)

    @dylan08: Thanks for following up. I'm sorry to hear you've been having some trouble. I'm not sure why your experience has been so different than other people's, so I'm glad you reached out with the details so we can help. Were you able to submit crash reports to us? And would those be under this same email address? I'm not able to reproduce the specific crashes you mention, and that can help us figure out what's going wrong on your machine.

    So here is my story after a few hours using the new version:
    First start after installation: Seems the program starts to migrate the data. App crashing. :'(
    Next start. A few seconds. App crashing. :'(

    That's definitely not normal, and likely indicates that something is damaged, if it's crashing before you're even really using it. So there's probably something that can be done to sort that out for you with some more details. Please generate a diagnostic report so we can look at the logs to determine exactly what is happening:

    https://support.1password.com/diagnostics/

    Please send it to [email protected] and add the following Support ID (including the square brackets) to the subject of your diagnostics email before sending:

    [#KFE-23749-837]

    If you’re reading this and you are not dylan08, this Support ID is for dylan08 only. Please ask us for your own if you also need help.

    This will link it to our current conversation. Once we see it we should be able to better assist you. Thanks in advance!

    ref: KFE-23749-837

    Third start. It is running. Is now everything fine? Maybe. Its running without a crash. For the moment.
    First look on the new UI. Maybe I will love it in the future. But I favor the old layout with labels left and field contents right.

    I'm not sure I follow. 1Password 7 has that left sidebar/right details UI as well. Can you elaborate?

    We are at version 7.2.2. And UI isn't fully translated. Some menu items and controls have english text. :(

    Can you be more specific? If the translators have overlooked something, we'll need to know what and the language in question to address it. Thanks!

    Uups. All my folders are gone and new nested tags appeared in the tag list. Stupid - there were some tags with the same name as the converted folders. Everything messed up. A warning or the possibility to rename the folders would by nice. But why should we help the user a little bit!? :'(

    Sorry for the trouble there. 1Password 7 uses tags instead of folders. If you need help, just let me know.

    Sorting favorites by drag&drop: Gone away. Have to use alphabetical list. If you try to reorder the items using drag&drop. App crashing. :'(

    I'm not able to reproduce this crash either, but we removed "drag and drop ordering" because it is not predictable across multiple vaults, and most people are using multiple vaults nowadays.

    Starting WLAN Sync to iPhone (after complete reset and delete of all data on the iPhone). Uups 1PW window on macOS constantly flickering. Item Count in sidebar constantly change. One up, one down... And synch never stops. Running and running and running.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "flickering", but it sounds like maybe you're running into trouble because you didn't setup a new sync connection with the new app/vault. Can you tell me the specific steps you took?

    After object count on iPhone is the same as on macOS i stop 1Password on iPhone. In the macOS application object count in the sidebar says a few objects fewer than before the sync. Exiting 1PW on mac and restart it shows the old, correct object count as before the sync.

    I'm not sure I follow. Are you missing items, have you ended up with some duplicates, or is it literally just the number that's throwing you off? It sounds related to the last point, and setting up a new sync connection should resolve it, but I'd like to better understand what you mean and what you've done first.

    Why are the folders gone in macOS 1PW? On iOS I have them. And its also version 7.2.2. And I couldn't work or remove them on macOS. But they must be elsewhere in the database. After fresh sync they appear on iOS.

    All 1Password 7 apps except iOS use tags instead of folders because tags are more flexible and easier to deal with when syncing multiple vaults across multiple devices. Folders will be going away in the iOS app too at some point.

    Perhaps, some of the problems are with the data maintained across multiple 1PW versions (from V2 until V6).? Looked into help menu and find tools. First I tried Tools->Optimize Database. Saying it had actualized 14 items. Which one and why?

    It's possible. Were you using OPVault already before upgrading to 1Password 7, or did you convert to OPVault while setting up 1Password 7?

    Or is the folder information from version 6 the root cause for my problems and application crashes? Selecting Tools -> Migrating folders to tags (maybe it is labeled different in english. I am using german language)... Next app crash. Not a one time shot. Reproducable. :'(

    Not here it isn't. The answer to my question above might shed some light on things. It's possible that some or all of the crashes you're seeing are due to some old data that 1Password 7 is having difficulty understanding, or, like you suggested, some compatibility issue between different versions.

    After a few hours working with the newest version I have between 12 and 15 crash reports on my system.

    If you sent them to use after restarting 1Password (any for a crash in the OS would have been sent to Apple, and we won't receive those), that should help shed some light on things. Thank you!

    Synchronizing vaults to folders worked in 1PW6 like a charm. Never worried about incompatible data between 2 or 3 macs synchronizing via folder sync. Now I have constantly to check if data is valid across all macs synching.

    I wish that was the case for everyone, but a lot of people encountered sync conflicts due to the more rigid nature of folders. Anyway, you'll have incremental backups of your data in 1Password for Mac in case you need to restore from them. I think ultimately the best thing would be to reset sync across all devices and start with a known-good copy of your data, but I would like to have a better understanding of what you've done so far before jumping to conclusions.

    Maybe you have some tipps or information to make me a happy V7 user. And no. I don't want to have a membership and sync data to AgileBits Cloud. I would like to have this data on my local systems.

    As I mentioned initially (though I didn't go into detail -- perhaps I should have), what you're trying to do is unsupported and therefore not something we test for or will make changes to accommodate. Specifically, WLAN Server is designed to work between a single Mac/PC and one or more mobile devices, not the other way around. I suspect that at least some of the sync issues you're encountering are a result of having multiple computers that all want to be the "source of truth", and you're ending up with "zombie" folders as a result. So while it's not something we can fix for you, I think you'd have better luck starting out with a brand new vault with your data on a single device, and then syncing that to the others one at a time initially to avoid having them all argue about the data. Let me know what you think.

  • Hello Brenty,

    thank you for detailed reply. I will sort it a little bit and provide you with further information step-by-step in the next days.

    Staring with translation: I mean german language. I have added to screenshots to show you some examples. I think there are a few more.
    Maybe your translation team could fix the translation with the next version.


  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @dylan08: Those strings may not even be available to the translation team yet, as one is a menu and the other is a beta feature. We'll look into it. Thank you!

  • Hello Brenty,

    regarding the UI i didn't mean the three panes. They are already there. I have added to snapshots from the data pane (view) from 1PW6 and 1PW7.
    In 1PW6 you have two rows. Labels and Data. In 1PW7 there is only one row. Everything on the left side of the view.
    1. I think the old layout is clearer to me than the new one. Eyes to the right and I see all the data. Don`t have to filter labels out :-)
    2. Thats more important: Computer monitors get wider and wider. We have 16:9 displays. And you guys put things vertically so I have to scroll more often than with the old version.

    Here are screenshots from the old and the new UI:


    You see the difference in place used and visibility/usability? But I think you know about the changes in UI because they are mentioned a few times in the forum.

  • dylan08dylan08
    edited November 2018

    Sorting favorites:

    I'm not able to reproduce this crash either, but we removed "drag and drop ordering" because it is not predictable across multiple vaults, and most people are using multiple vaults nowadays.

    I have send a crash report from 1Password after application crashed when I tried to reorder some items with my mouse.
    Select "favorites" in let pane. Than grab one item in the item list. "Drag" it to a new position and release. For me its crashing 1Password in all installs. Reproducable every time i try it.

    I also use more than one vault. And i have used ordering my favorites with version 6 for a long time. Without problems. So its a mystery to me why you removed this feature.

    I am away from home for a few days. So I will send the diagnostic report next week.

  • Were you using OPVault already before upgrading to 1Password 7, or did you convert to OPVault while setting up 1Password 7?

    Don't know exactly what you mean? Data is stored in the "containers" / "group containers" folders in user library path.
    File/Folder sync in settings is using OPVault since 1Password4 if I remember correctly.

    But here a short description how you could reproduce the problems with folder sync. I have a vault with about 500 items. Backup/Export is saying there are 16 folders which I couldn't see in 1Password7. And there are 68 attachments in the vault.

    1. Folder sync has to be activated in the settings for the primary vault.
    2. Quit 1Password7 completely using 1Password mini.
    3. Start the programm.
    4. Go to settings and deactivate folder sync for the primary vault by selecting none from the combo box. Only deactivate. Don't delete the data.
    5. Quit 1Password7 completely using 1Password mini.
    6. Start the programm
    7. Now activate the folder sync and select the folder with the OPVault from last sync.
    8. Now have a look on the item count in the left pane while the sync is in progress. After a while it counts down, up, down, ... After the sync is complete there are 13 items fewer than before sync. Started with 464 and ended with 450. Sometimes the counter even says only 439 items.
    9. Close the 1Password Window. Don't need to exit the program completely.
    10. Open 1Password again. Enter passphrase. And et voila: item counter for all objects is back to 464.

    And thats also a reproducible behaviour. And this happens on one local machine. No other machine is accessing this sync folder. And no WLAN Server is active. There seems to be inconsistencies in the database after disabling/enabling snyc without changes to the database or to the sync folder.

    And as a second test:
    1. After configured to sync your primary vault to a folder on a network share, exit program.
    2. Go to a second mac. Start 1Password. Delete all items out of your primary vault. Empty trash.
    3. Now with your empty database configure folder sync for your primary vault, using the folder sync you created with the first instance of 1Password.
    4. Sync is starting. Sometimes you get 439 items out of 464 from the source database. Sometimes there are 450 items. And I couldn't find any information why the missing items are not synced to the second database. Or is the first/source instance missing to write them to the sync store?

    Please understand. You are working with sensible and very important data. And since version 7 I have data misses, inconsistencies, errors. I am using the same environment/setup (Mac Pro, MacBook, iPhone, iPad) for a long time without any losses or inconsistencies.
    And in the first scenario there is only one mac and in the second scenario two macs involved.

  • Hello brenty (or someone else from AgileBits),

    could you reproduce my problems with sync to folder?

    Regards
    Ulrich

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited December 2018

    @dylan08: As mentioned previously, 1Password 7 does not support folders. So I'm not sure what you're doing here, but it sounds like you're restoring from a backup with folders and expecting that to "sync" in 1Password 7. Disabling/enabling sync repeatedly also destroys the sync state, so that can cause some confusion. I think it would be best for you to start with known-good data, migrate it to 1Password 7, and then not mess around with different sync settings...but honestly it's hard for me to understand your most recent comments without answers to questions I asked you earlier:

    I'm not sure what you mean by "flickering", but it sounds like maybe you're running into trouble because you didn't setup a new sync connection with the new app/vault. Can you tell me the specific steps you took?

    and

    Are you missing items, have you ended up with some duplicates, or is it literally just the number that's throwing you off? It sounds related to the last point, and setting up a new sync connection should resolve it, but I'd like to better understand what you mean and what you've done first.

    and

    Were you using OPVault already before upgrading to 1Password 7, or did you convert to OPVault while setting up 1Password 7?

    That last one is especially important. I think Help > Tools > Migrate folders to tags may help in the end, but I really don't have a good sense of your situation. Your most recent "steps" don't mean a lot to me without knowing the starting point. I am not able to reproduce what you're describing here at all so far, so it's probably something specific to your data. The best way to maintain integrity is to act sensibly, so let's begin with a solid foundation.

  • Hello,

    diagnostic report is on the way.

    I haven't restored from backup. Its migrated from 1 Password6. One thing I remember is that version 7 tells to me that it couldn't work with the old files in my sync folder. So after an error message the software disabled the sync to folders.
    So I created a new and empty folder and assigned this new folder to the vaults for syncing.

    And if you say there aren't folders anymore:

    • Why is backup saying "1Password 2018-12-03 14_33_17 (4 profiles, 643 items, 26 folders, 68 attachments).1p4_zip"?
    • Why did I have the folders on my iPhone? And I have done a complete reset on my iPhone. Settings -> Extented -> Delete all 1password data. So they have to be synched from my mac database.
    • If I start "Migrate folders to tags" 1Password is crashing. Migration doesn't work. And if I have a look to my tag list this migration must have been done during the database conversion when I started version 7 the first time.

    I would like to have a solid foundation. But to me it seems new version wasn't able to migrate my data from v6 to v7.
    Is there a way to check data integrity? Maybe version 7 couldn't work with some data

    Where could I find if I use OPVault? Where could I switch between some other format and OPVault? Never seen such an option or question during migration?
    The only thing I could say is, that the filenames in my sync folder ends to opvault. And thats true since 1password 4.
    And the first version I get trouble with my data is 1password 7. The switch between 2, 3, 4 and 6 (i think there was never a v5?) was complete without trouble or any problems.

    Regards
    Ulrich

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Why is backup saying "1Password 2018-12-03 14_33_17 (4 profiles, 643 items, 26 folders, 68 attachments).1p4_zip"?

    Probably because they did not migrate yet.

    Why did I have the folders on my iPhone? And I have done a complete reset on my iPhone. Settings -> Extented -> Delete all 1password data. So they have to be synched from my mac database.

    As I told you on November 30th,

    All 1Password 7 apps except iOS use tags instead of folders because tags are more flexible and easier to deal with when syncing multiple vaults across multiple devices. Folders will be going away in the iOS app too at some point.

    We haven't changed that yet.

    If I start "Migrate folders to tags" 1Password is crashing. Migration doesn't work. And if I have a look to my tag list this migration must have been done during the database conversion when I started version 7 the first time.

    Then the original data is damaged.

    Is there a way to check data integrity? Maybe version 7 couldn't work with some data

    It sounds like you already tried optimizing on the 29th. But 1Password 7 could not repair everything if you're still having trouble.

    Where could I find if I use OPVault? Where could I switch between some other format and OPVault? Never seen such an option or question during migration?

    1Password for Mac version 7 has no such option because it only supports OPVault.

    At this point, I'd suggest trying the database optimization in 1Password 6, since you're able to access everything there. And then export your data to 1PIF. You should be able to import that into a new vault in 1Password 7 (definitely use a new vault), but even if that doesn't work you should be able to find in the exported JSON which record(s) are corrupt and remove them (to another file) so you can import the rest. Let me know how it goes.

This discussion has been closed.