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Subscription vs. Standalone

dhsterling
dhsterling
Community Member

I've been a 1Password user for years, and just found out that AgileBits changed its business model to subscription. I'm trying out subscription, and thus far, see almost no difference from standalone. Seems like it might be wasted money, but at only $3/month I'm not going to sweat it. In standalone my vault saved to Dropbox, which kept my Mac and iPhone sync'd, so I don't understand the difference between subscription "sync" vs. Dropbox sync?? Would be helpful to have this explained further. Secondly, I also don't understand the fuss over security in the cloud vs. Dropbox--isn't Dropbox "in the cloud"?? From a security standpoint, doesn't it ultimately come down to who's cloud is most secure--AgileBits or Dropbox? Thirdly, at this stage in the 1Password version lifecycle, am I incorrect in saying the difference between "Standalone" vs "Subscription" is rather minor? Is the ultimate difference going to come when an all-new version is released? It does seem like LastPass and Dashlane have somewhat slicker user interfaces. Will AgileBits be releasing a fresher, more intuitive version soon? Could you also comment on 1Password's security vs. LastPass vs. Dashlane? Is there something about your "cloud" that's safer? Thanks!


1Password Version: Subscription
Extension Version: Safari, Chrome, Firefox
OS Version: OS (newest)
Sync Type: Cloud

Comments

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @dhsterling: Thanks for reaching out! Glad you've decided to give 1Password.com a try. :)

    I've been a 1Password user for years, and just found out that AgileBits changed its business model to subscription.

    Just to clarify, we haven't changed anything; rather, we've added a new option. Licenses, while they cannot have some of the features that take advantage of the hosted service, will continue to be supported in 1Password 7. :sunglasses:

    I'm trying out subscription, and thus far, see almost no difference from standalone. Seems like it might be wasted money, but at only $3/month I'm not going to sweat it. In standalone my vault saved to Dropbox, which kept my Mac and iPhone sync'd, so I don't understand the difference between subscription "sync" vs. Dropbox sync?? Would be helpful to have this explained further.

    With a 1Password.com membership, there is no sync setup or licensing: you simply sign into your account, and that tells 1Password where to send and receive data so it can be accessible to you across all your devices. So Dropbox isn't involved at all. That may not sound much different, but if you've ever tried syncing (or sharing) multiple vaults with Dropbox you'll know it can be pretty tedious getting things setup across all your devices.

    Secondly, I also don't understand the fuss over security in the cloud vs. Dropbox--isn't Dropbox "in the cloud"?? From a security standpoint, doesn't it ultimately come down to who's cloud is most secure--AgileBits or Dropbox?

    That sounds like it makes sense, but in reality there's a big difference: Dropbox has the ability to access the data in your account, we don't. Now, this has less of an impact on 1Password data since it is end-to-end encrypted (using your Master Password), but 1Password.com data also has the added protection of the Secret Key, which is also used to encrypt your data. Neither of these "keys" to your data are ever sent to us, so only you have the means to decrypt your data.

    Thirdly, at this stage in the 1Password version lifecycle, am I incorrect in saying the difference between "Standalone" vs "Subscription" is rather minor? Is the ultimate difference going to come when an all-new version is released?

    1Password.com has a lot of features that simply aren't possible with the standalone apps, but ultimately it depends on what matters to you. Personally, I like not ever having to worry about using data. With the standalone apps, I have to make sure I have the necessary backups and redundancies in place. All of that's automatic with 1Password.com.

    Will AgileBits be releasing a fresher, more intuitive version soon?

    I'm not quite sure what you mean. We've announced that we're working on 1Password 7, but I can't give you any specifics on that quite yet. ;)

    Is there something about your "cloud" that's safer? Thanks!

    The short answer is that we can't make it safer: we already don't have the means to decrypt the data. I kind of covered that above, but you might want to check out our security whitepaper. We're very open about our security model, and if you have any questions about how all of this works please let us know! :)

  • dhsterling
    dhsterling
    Community Member

    Thanks for the explanations. I guess what I was mainly asking is, is the overall user-interface, functionality of "Standalone" vs. "Subscription" basically the same? I had Standalone for 4 years and just switched to Subscription, and the differences seem subtle, and almost imperceptible. When I first set-up Standalone I didn't find anything difficult at all with setting up Dropbox, and it seemed like the mobile app and Mac desktop stayed in "sync" without much delay, and the Application Center kept versions updated. So... from a user-interface and functionality standpoint, can you point out anything distinctively different between the two products? Additionally, I read somewhere that your Subscription product will upgrade to all new versions in the future (I guess version 7), and that Standalone will not upgrade to new versions. If that is correct, then am I incorrect in saying that the bigger differences between the two products won't happen until an all new version is released? Thanks again.

  • Ben
    Ben
    edited November 2017

    The user interface is the same, because they both use the same apps. The exception is that membership also has a web interface available, and standalone does not.

    It is great to hear that 3rd party sync was working well for you, but one of the main reasons we decided to build the 1Password service is that it didn’t work great for everyone and it was a pretty poor experience when it didn’t work. It was also difficult if not impossible to do the kind of sharing that is possible with 1Password.com.

    Thanks. :)

    Ben

    ref: QDH-15149-438

  • phbelov
    phbelov
    Community Member

    Hi!

    I got confused a little bit too, once I've installed the app from the Mac App Store. If I purchase a standalone version right now, will I need to pay for 1Password 7 in the future? Is standalone pricing in the App Store billed annually, or is it for lifetime?

  • Hi @phbelov,

    Thanks for taking the time to write in.

    If I purchase a standalone version right now, will I need to pay for 1Password 7 in the future?

    If you want to use 1Password 7 that would be a separate purchase, yes.

    Is standalone pricing in the App Store billed annually, or is it for lifetime?

    Hmm. Neither? When you purchase a standalone copy of 1Password you’re purchasing a specific version. You’re able to use that version for as long as it works for you. So I guess in that way it is “lifetime.” It does not include upgrades. So in that way... I wouldn’t describe it as “lifetime.”

    Does that make sense?

    Thanks.

    Ben

  • phbelov
    phbelov
    Community Member

    Hi @Ben! Thanks a lot for quick answer. Yes, it totally makes sense. I understand how everything works now :)

  • You’re very welcome. :)

    Ben

  • triciad
    triciad
    Community Member

    I'm going to tag on this thread as i've got a related question. I've been a standalone user for the past few years and had my mac and iphone all synced without any problems. I've now added a windows machine to the mix and would like to download the software and sync with what I already have. From what I can tell, I'd need to switch to the subscription model? I can't seem to figure out any other way but possibly I'm missing something?

    Thank you -- Tricia

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @triciad: Correct. 1Password For Windows licenses are not being sold, so the Windows version is currently only available as part of a 1Password.com membership. That gives you access to all of the apps, the web interface, and does away with license management and sync configuration altogether — you simply login to your account to authorize a device and access your data. You can try it for free for 30 days to take advantage of all of its benefits. And if you'll shoot us an email at support@1password.com we'll be happy to help you make the transition. Just post the Support ID you receive here so we can get back to you quickly. :)

  • triciad
    triciad
    Community Member

    @brently Okay cool -- thanks for the clarification. I'll reach back out if needed.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Sounds good! We're here if you need us. :chuffed:

  • DavidBergkvist
    DavidBergkvist
    Community Member

    I probably need some easy to understand graphics to display how this works since I still don't really get it.

    I used your version 3 as a standalone app upp until a few weeks back. It was on my Mac and I had a copy of my vault (no sync) in my iPhone. I don't remember how it got there but it had some passwords there and worked.

    Now I'd like to move up to 1Password 6 but how does all pieces fit together and what are the pros and cons?
    Can I put the vault I have on my iCloud Drive and buy the standalone version 6 app and use the iOS app with the same vault? Or do I need to buy the Pro-addon for iOS as well?

    If I buy the membership for 1password.com and keep paying for that. Do I still need to pay for the 1Password standalone app and, if needed, also for the Pro-addon for iOS?

    Can I upload the vault I already have to the one that will be created when I sign up for the membership trial and can I also export it if I'd like to stop using the membership and only use it locally with the standalone app?

    About the secret key. You say you don't have access to it but since you sent it to me (for the trial) in a PDF you did, at one point, have it and I should just trust that you did not save it or have any flaw in your systems that can expose it and/or cache it.

    About using the standalone and the use of sync via wifi or Dropbox/iCloud. You make it sound like that don't really work so users should take the safe route and just pay to use the membership solution.

    You really should look into trying to make this business model more easy to understand. I'm not the first one to ask about it and I find it arrogant that users need to dig around a support forum to understand that the price for the standalone app is found in the in-app sale function and that the price displayed on your website it only the membership price. You are not transparent about how it all ties together from my point of view.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    I probably need some easy to understand graphics to display how this works since I still don't really get it.

    @DavidBergkvist: I'm not much a graphic designer, so for now I think we're better off doing Q&A. ;)

    I used your version 3 as a standalone app upp until a few weeks back. It was on my Mac and I had a copy of my vault (no sync) in my iPhone. I don't remember how it got there but it had some passwords there and worked.

    Now I'd like to move up to 1Password 6 but how does all pieces fit together and what are the pros and cons?

    Sure! We have a pretty exhaustive list here:

    What are the benefits of a 1Password membership?

    But if you have specific questions (it looks like you do below), I'm happy to answer them, especially as they pertain to your individual use case, which may not be covered in-depth on the website.

    Can I put the vault I have on my iCloud Drive and buy the standalone version 6 app and use the iOS app with the same vault? Or do I need to buy the Pro-addon for iOS as well? If I buy the membership for 1password.com and keep paying for that. Do I still need to pay for the 1Password standalone app and, if needed, also for the Pro-addon for iOS?

    Nope! A 1Password.com membership includes everything, so no separate purchase for iOS, licenses, etc., and no configuring sync: you just sign into your account on each device and that gets you access to your data and all of the features — without having to juggle licenses.

    Can I upload the vault I already have to the one that will be created when I sign up for the membership trial and can I also export it if I'd like to stop using the membership and only use it locally with the standalone app?

    Yes! Starting over from scratch would be terrible, and we wouldn't want to do it either. 1Password 6 can read your existing data so you can migrate it to a 1Password.com account:

    Migrate your data on your main device

    About the secret key. You say you don't have access to it but since you sent it to me (for the trial) in a PDF you did, at one point, have it and I should just trust that you did not save it or have any flaw in your systems that can expose it and/or cache it.

    Good question! In fact, we don't ever have it. Rather than "sending" it to you, all of that happens locally on your device, either in the browser or in the app, depending on how you signed up: the Secret Key is generated, not on our server, but on your device, when you create the account, so you're just saving it from there. 1Password.com is literally just running a web app inside the browser on your machine to do all of this, so that none of your account credentials are ever transmitted. You can find more details in our security white paper, and be sure to let me know if you have any other questions!

    About using the standalone and the use of sync via wifi or Dropbox/iCloud. You make it sound like that don't really work so users should take the safe route and just pay to use the membership solution.

    iCloud and Dropbox work most of the time. Like, the vast majority of the time. I know because I use them both, and have for years. But I also know that when they don't work, it sucks. They also weren't designed expressly for 1Password, so sync conflicts can happen as well. So when I say that 1Password.com is the best way to use 1Password, that's not because there's anything wrong with iCloud or Dropbox, but because we've designed 1Password.com to be the best way to use 1Password. We also don't have any control over Dropbox or iCloud, so we can't change them to try to improve things for 1Password users, and if something breaks there, we have no insight into why, nor do we have the ability to fix it. With 1Password.com, we built the whole thing top to bottom, so if and when there's a problem, we can do what it takes to get it resolved. :glasses:

    You really should look into trying to make this business model more easy to understand. I'm not the first one to ask about it and I find it arrogant that users need to dig around a support forum to understand that the price for the standalone app is found in the in-app sale function and that the price displayed on your website it only the membership price. You are not transparent about how it all ties together from my point of view.

    Thanks for the feedback on this. I can see where you're coming from, but honestly users shouldn't have to understand the business model. Most people don't care to, and just want to use 1Password to secure their digital lives. The reality is that the two models do not tie together, and that's intentional. I think part of the confusion for you may be that we didn't drop the old way of doing things and force everyone to switch to a membership. That certainly would have simplified things and gotten us to a point where no one had to figure out which "flavour" of 1Password there were using (or should be), but that would have negatively impacted many of our existing customers — probably you. So we just can't have it both ways in that regard, so we do our best to answer any questions people have. And frankly it sounds like you think about this stuff in a way that not everyone does, or cares to, perhaps as a more technically savvy user. Sometimes that can be our downfall, as we want to understand how everyone works, when most people just want stuff to work so they can get on with their lives. I'm sorry if that's meant more work for you researching things, but I'm glad you've reached out so we can help! :)

  • fvn
    fvn
    Community Member

    Could someone help me to make something clear?
    I have a license for 1password 6 + ipad and iphone apps.
    When 1P 7 will be out, can I purchase it standalone without to have to migrate to membership?

    One more doubt about hosting 1p file on 1password.com instead of dropbox. Should one be out of internet connection, let's say a cell phone in a area of no coverage, is there a way to access to 1password files or I am cut out?

  • When 1P 7 will be out, can I purchase it standalone without to have to migrate to membership?

    Yes.

    One more doubt about hosting 1p file on 1password.com instead of dropbox. Should one be out of internet connection, let's say a cell phone in a area of no coverage, is there a way to access to 1password files or I am cut out?

    1Password caches your data locally so any data that was on the device before you lost internet connection will still be there and accessible without internet.

    Hope that helps. :)

    Ben

  • fvn
    fvn
    Community Member

    All clear now.
    Thanks a lot

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni
    edited January 2018

    @fvn - you're quite welcome! Glad ben was able to help. :)

  • patbunyard
    patbunyard
    Community Member

    I seem to be sold on getting into the 1Password system. The question above concerning the effect on my device in case of loosing internet, I am not sure I am clear on that. I travel a lot out of country and occasionally there is no internet coverage. If I am in need of getting into one of my password protected sites, will I be able to retrieve that password? Is this password stored on all my devices locally in order to retrieve it at any time?

  • Sure, you can retrieve the password — but how are you going to use it without internet access? A copy of your 1Password data is kept on your device, and updated when you have internet access. If you don’t have internet access you can access that local copy, but obviously won’t get any updates.

    Ben

  • patbunyard
    patbunyard
    Community Member

    Thanks Ben, I guess what I am thinking of is: I have a 3rd party app on my iPad like LoungeBuddy and I must get signed in in order to access my profile information. Is that stored on the iPad? I usually use my Apps for access and not the web link. And yea if I don't have internet access, good question Ben. However, if it is a real need, I just enter the app using my cellular, which I have on my iPad.

  • If it is stored in 1Password, and you’ve signed into 1Password on your iPad since adding it, then yes it is stored on the iPad. :)

    Ben

  • Fatboy71
    Fatboy71
    Community Member

    Here's the way I see it, leaving aside the feature differences between subscription and standalone licenses.

    When I first went with 1Password for my password management (back in 2013) I bought the iOS apps, Mac apps and these had standalone licenses.

    Admittedly, since then, I can't remember having to stump up more cash for to update to the next big update (and by big update I mean, updating from version 4 to version 5 and so on). Now this is good value for the customer, but, from a business point of view, it would mean that there would not be a regular amount of cash coming in, as some people would have bought 1Password years back, and they would then only be new customers purchasing it (however many those new customers would be). So from a business point of view, it's hard to plan with where they go next, as the income they are receiving would be hard to know or even impossible to know.

    Now, with a subscripting based system, this means that AgileBits has a steady stream of income coming in every month from its customer base, so it's easier to plan with where they go next, as they have an accurate idea of their income.

    Now, a subscription system might get frowned on by some customers, especially by the ones who have not needed to purchase a new license for many years. But I can ultimately see that standalone licenses (which are still available) will not last the length of time I've mentioned above. Personally I think AgileBits will require the customer to purchase a new standalone license when 1Password goes to the next big version update (version 7 to version 8 for example) and the reason I think this will be the case is because, if customers could buy a standalone license that still continued to last many years (which they have done in the past) then customers would twig on to this fact and purchase the standalone license over getting a subscription, and I think ultimately AgileBits are steering towards a subscription based system. So if what I have just said is true (AgileBits will require the customer to purchase a new standalone license when 1Password goes to the next big version update (version 7 to version 8 for example) this would require quite a pricey outlay for that customer, because they would potentially need to purchase the iOS apps, Mac apps, Windows apps (if they had a Windows computer) every time the next big version update happened. Whereas, customers on a subscription would get all the apps included in the subscription cost, at a cheaper price (even more so on a yearly subscription).

    Personally though, I don't have an issue with a subscription, because if it means 1Password is going to be developed further and further and also keep the app in existence, and lastly because its one of my most used apps, then I don't have an issue with a subscription (I personally went with a yearly subscription as you get a saving with this method compared to a monthly subscription). Obviously I enjoyed the 5 years of not needing to pay another fee to AgileBits, but I think this is a thing of the past, and standalone licenses will not be as long lasting as they previously were. But has previously been mentioned, standalone licenses are still available, its just we have an extra option now with subscriptions, and I will be very interested to learn if customer who have purchased a standalone license for 1Password 7, will need to buy a new one when 1Password 8 comes out.

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @Fatboy71 - you've essentially nailed the issue and the history to date. I'll just add a couple of points for color commentary.

    I can't remember having to stump up more cash for to update to the next big update (and by big update I mean, updating from version 4 to version 5 and so on).

    Right, that's because you never had to do that. 👍In the earliest days of all, the Mac App Store did not yet exist and we sold 1Password as developers had for years: privately, through the AgileBits website. 1Password 3 for Mac was the first time we charged users for an upgrade, and it was a BIG release. Version 3 also remains (if I'm remembering correctly) the king of versions in terms of lifespan -- it was released on November 9, 2009, and remained the current version of 1Password until October of 2013 (just over four years!). In that time, it went through dozens of free updates, so when 1Password 4 for Mac was released, we felt justified in charging for it, given the history. Even then, we "grandfathered" almost a full YEAR back into the purchase history of 1Password 3 for Mac (meaning: anyone who purchased version 3 at any time in 2013 got a free upgrade to version 4).

    By that time, the Mac App Store was up and going gangbusters, and 1Password was already a part of it. The app 1Password (no version number) was introduced early on in the Mac App Store history, and it was version 3 at the time. But, in the Mac App Store, in-app purchases were not yet a thing, and then (as now), Apple provided no easy way for developers to charge for new full-version upgrades. So we began what became a sort of double life for 1Password for Mac - the version we continued to sell on our own website followed the more-or-less industry-standard method of months of in-version updates followed by a larger release of a new full version (first 4, then 5, then 6), while the Mac App Store version just continued getting updated - even the full-version upgrades to 4, 5 and 6 were nothing more (to Mac App Store users) than just another update...for which we weren't able to charge. As you observed, this became an unsustainable business model. Ten employees had turned into twenty, then forty, all handling the growing business of making 1Password and assisting our users, and for years, the only revenue coming in was from new sales of 1Password to people who'd never used it before. We also didn't think it was fair for us to be charging those who purchased from our website directly for these new full-version upgrades, when Mac App Store purchasers were getting the same upgrades for free. The result was that we went from 2013 through last year - five years - without a single new charge for 1Password except for new customers.

    In the meantime, we were busy. We spent over nineteen months creating the server backend and related code that would become 1password.com accounts, and we kept iterating across four platforms (Mac, Windows, iOS and Android). But we knew that we were eventually going to have to bite the bullet and release a completely new product ID (SKU) in the Mac App Store -- which is why the new version is called 1Password 7 for Mac and not just yet another continuation of 1Password -- because it's an entirely new SKU in the Mac App Store. By the time of 1Password 7 for Mac's release, over 100 people worked here, and we knew we couldn't sell a single-purchase application that kept getting updated for free in the Mac App Store any longer, not and be able to keep making payroll. So as our CEO Jeff Shiner explained in a blog post at the time, because of this and the fact that 1password.com had been up and running for almost two years by that point, we made the decision NOT to sell a standalone version of 1Password via the Mac App Store. Instead, the Mac App Store version would be a free download, and the only purchase option would be a 1password.com membership (subscription). Those who still wanted a standalone license could buy the new version "a la carte" (without a subscription) for $64.99 at our website.

    Obviously I enjoyed the 5 years of not needing to pay another fee to AgileBits, but I think this is a thing of the past, and standalone licenses will not be as long lasting as they previously were.

    I think everyone did! Who doesn't like free? ;) The problem, as you observed, is that it wasn't sustainable. I know of very few pieces of commercial software that offer a true "lifetime" license -- in the sense that a single payment grants the user pre-access to all future versions, with no additional payments. Those very few that I have seen over the years tend to be exorbitantly expensive, in the hundreds if not thousands of dollars, because the developers know this is the last time they'll see any revenue from this customer, and there are a limited number of users who will be interested in ANY product. Every 1Password standalone license we've ever sold never expires, but - and this is the crucial difference - they only can be used to license the version for which they were originally purchased. We definitely muddied those waters a bit by giving all users free upgrades from version 4 to both 5 and 6...but the fact remains that you cannot use an existing license from version 2 or 3 to license version 4 or 6. And 1Password 7 for Mac resets things. I don't get to make the decisions around here about when and how much we'll charge for things, so this will be only a guess, but I'd imagine that any standalone licenses we sell in the future will return to the software industry-standard of free updates within versions (3.6 to 3.7, etc), and paid upgrades to new versions (3.7 to 4.0, etc), for standalone users (and only from our own store). Thanks for understanding this dynamic, and for being a 1Password user. :)

  • danco
    danco
    Volunteer Moderator

    @Lars

    Thank you for that history and explanation of the way the size of the AgileBits staff has kept increasing. I think it is very useful.

    Some people seem to consider that their licence should cover every update for ever, which I feel is absurd, I would expect to pay.

    However, I would disagree with you about the cost of a true lifetime licence. I have several very useful pieces of software that have a lifetime licence that is cheaper than the 1PW licence (I could list some of them, but don't feel it is appropriate). I suspect the difference is that they are by a single developer or a firm with a very small number of staff. And one or two developers offered a standard licence at one price and a lifetime licence at approximately double the basic cost.

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @danco

    I suspect the difference is that they are by a single developer or a firm with a very small number of staff.

    Well, considering that there is also always the world of freeware, which costs the user nothing at all, I'd tend to agree. A lot depends on the difficulty and intricacy of creating the product in question. There may also be some cynicism involved on the part of the developer regarding how long they intend to actually develop the product. "Lifetime" doesn't mean as much if the product is abandoned by its team after two or three versions. ;)

    My general rule is: when you find an app or solution that ticks all or even most of your requirement boxes, use it. If it's free, great -- but be careful; the old "if you're not the customer, you're the product" applies. And if the app costs money, pay it. That's what all of us do for everything else in life, after all. I absolutely understand that it's not quite that simple for some people who may have substantially limited budgets, but there again, the same basic concept applies: if budgetary or other constraints mean one can't consider certain options, then...don't consider them. What I don't understand is people who not just hope but expect to pay Kia prices (or nothing at all) and get Porsche performance.

This discussion has been closed.