What happened to the categories in the left pane of Mini?
I just installed the new 7.3 version.
When opening 1Password Mini, I see a huge list down the left pane that is essentially useless. I understand there is a pull-down at the top for categories. Are we supposed to use the pull-down menu, then find the category, and then find the item we are looking for? That doesn't seem right, especially give the layout of the prior version.
Surely there is a preference somewhere to change this to the prior layout, but I am not finding it.
Thank in advance for guidance!
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Comments
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Hi @sawxray
The primary goal of 1Password mini is to quickly and efficiently fill items related to the website you're currently viewing, not necessarily to find items unrelated to what you're currently viewing. The
Suggestionsview in mini should be showing you any items that are relevant. If you're looking for something that isn't, then yes, you could either use the search at the top of mini or pull down the menu, select the category you're looking for, and then scroll through the items, but the latter seems rather inefficient. :)Ben
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Thank you for the explanation.
Sorry to say, this new UI feels wrong and unappealing. My frustration level is high when using it, which is made worse because the prior version was quite usable, and its not clear why a change in this function was warranted.
I asked myself, why was the previous layout designed in that manner? Surely the UI people had an intent and concept to their design, and as a user I was quite comfortable using that concept for my basic functions, including a lot of: narrowing down over a thousand entries quickly; generating a password; searching for an entry when I knew the category but not the exact name. Honestly, I was a bit taken aback by such a conceptual change. I understood the new functions when I read the release notes before installing. But the efficiency of this version, at least for me, has taken a hit.
Just thinking about it, why would there be a thought to have a universal list of all possible entries in such a small space? It instantly appears cluttered, and it forces the user to read every entry, rather than just a few choices, like 'Credit Cards,' 'Password Generator.' I have not seen a person open up Finder with a folder set to 'all files on this Mac.' They keep their preferred shortcuts in the panel on the left of the window, and start by clicking on the category they intend to use (eg, Applications, Music, Documents, etc). Other Mac applications follow this model: Mail has folders and accounts on the left; FCP has libraries and events on the left; programs like OmniFocus have folders/projects/perspectives here. This new version of 1Password is such a departure from that Mac model, as well as from the prior version of 1Password, that it feels quite disorganized and tedious to use. I don't even want to look at the left pane because it is incredibly busy, and not organized. Anyway, for what its worth, that's my two cents.
Is there either a way for me to recover this prior layout, or barring that, to revert to the prior version?
Thank you.
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It is perhaps a bit ironic, as the new mini design is the result of a ton of customer feedback (and frankly backlash) when the mini that you see in 7.2 was released. Just shows that with such a large customer base it simply isn't possible to accommodate everyone's preferences. :)
The focus of the efforts has been to make accessing what is most relevant easily accessible which means fading everything else into the background, which is why
Suggestionsis the default showing.It instantly appears cluttered, and it forces the user to read every entry, rather than just a few choices, like 'Credit Cards,' 'Password Generator.'
I'm a little confused by your response, as those are exactly the items we've brought to the foreground and highlighted in the interface (as well as Identities).
Is there either a way for me to recover this prior layout, or barring that, to revert to the prior version?
There isn't a way to use the previous layout with the current version. We couldn't recommend staying on an older version, but that would be your prerogative. :) As with any major change it is probably worth giving it more than a day to adjust. We're certainly still open to suggestions and recognize that there is likely room to continue to improve.
Ben
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Often the suggestion doesn't match, so I'm forced to open the main program to find the login. I agree, this is not an improvement. It also looks like the password generator was forgotten.
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@AirKevin: Certainly the suggestions are not always perfect, so it's something we'll continue to iterate on. But there's no reason you're "forced to open the main program to find the login": all categories are viewable in 1Password mini, and search is available there without even clicking anything: just start typing. But you can absolutely go to the main 1Password window if you prefer that. :)
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It instantly appears cluttered, and it forces the user to read every entry, rather than just a few choices, like 'Credit Cards,' 'Password Generator.'
I'm a little confused by your response, as those are exactly the items we've brought to the foreground and highlighted in the interface (as well as Identities).
Because there is no longer a separation between different types of items in Suggestions, it does require more effort to scan the individual entries for the one that is the credit card rather than just going over to the credit card section (whether in the former Category pane or the former "Fill Credit Card" section under Suggestions). While it is better than the credit cards and identities not being there at all, it's not as clean or clear as the previous version.
An oft-repeated suggestion from the team is to "just search" for items in the new design, but not everyone thinks the same way. Some people are clearly thinking more in terms of "Tag", "Category", or "Favorites" for easily getting to what they wanted instead of remembering the title of individual items. Some probably weren't even looking at the suggestions and were just immediately going to the category of item they wanted. Since 1P has now made a more opinionated stance about what Mini is for, it stresses Suggestions to the exclusion of everything else. But one of the great things about the mini came not only from filling, but also from its ability to quickly access information with a keyboard shortcut and a few arrow tabs. Using the main app, and now the new design, is just clunkier and slower.
Oh well, it is what it is. It would be cool if people who did update could easily downgrade to the old interface/previous version, similar to how 1PX is still letting people use the old interface while they work to improve the usability of the new design.
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Ben-
To follow up on a few of your comments:
- Yes, I understand it is hard to make everybody happy. Or impossible.
- My comments about the left panel stand. Almost every program I use has either a left panel or a top panel that simplifies and organizes a lot of data. Maybe its just me, but I prefer to keep it simple. Otherwise, I find it quite fatiguing to deal with long lists of details or icons.
- The suggestions don't work if you have several credit cards, or if you wish to separate business and personal cards and accounts. How could the program know which card I wish to use?
- Password generator should probably remain hidden most of the time, but be easy to find when needed.
- Again, searching is easy with either version, but only if you know the details. What about the situation where one wishes to find something but doesn't remember the exact name? That happens to me more than I wish to admit....
Is there a significant security risk if I revert? Also, since I am on a family subscription, will reverting affect that subscription?
Thanks again for listening and discussing.
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Search options?
I cannot even change the search options to allow a 'search everything' in 1P Mini. Search only works for the exact title of the entry. That is not usable.
Please, please tell me there is an option, and I am just not seeing it.
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Is anyone else having trouble generating a new password for an existing login with version 7.3? I can create a new password but have to then go back to my previously saved entry for that site, edit the password, and paste in the new password. With the previous version, I could click the 'generate password' button and then, when entered into the webpage I was on, 1password would offer to update the existing entry I have for that page. The update feels like a big downgrade in this regard. I've been using 1password for years and the newest update is the first one I've felt is unintuitive to use...
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Here is another usage case that I feel falls short:
I have about 6 favorites. Mostly the banks I use the most, a fax service for my business, admin login for my website, Amazon.
If I search for 'Chase,' let's say, I get a bunch of credit cards and other info along with the bank I might use for the majority of my business. Instead of the prior UI, where I could just save the one Chase bank account, I get everything that has 'C' or 'Ch' or 'Cha' or 'Chase' until I get just the Chase entries. I have to type even more for common entries that might apply to 20 or 30 entries in my database. There is no search function that brings up all of my favorites, because they come from a disparate group. So my hands have to move to the mouse or trackpad. Previously, I saw my short list of favorites, I either keyed in a few letters, or one quick click. No more. It should have been obvious from the beginning that search should never be a substitute for a 'Favorites' function. I don't know of another program that defaults to search, or where search replaces a 'Favorites' function.
And if I use the pull-down to get to my favorites, there is not a way to save that to default to Favorites. Next time I call up the window, its the same disorganized list. So every step moves from obvious to hidden, one click to at least two, and its a step back from the previous version.
Also, as I said before, when I hit my keyboard shortcut, the 1P Mini window NEVER opens with a clean look or interface. The suggestions list is a hodgepodge of unrelated items, and my eyes don't want to look at it. And every time its different, because I am on a different website. When I open Finder or any of my other well-used programs, I know what I am going to see. Who wants to start reading an ever-changing list of new entries that are unrelated, with different icons, some without icons, scroll for a while through an unrelated list, etc, etc?
I just don't want to open this window. It feels bad, and its quite demanding of attention, instead of a useful and nimble and transparent utility, where I used to know what I was going to get every time, and that did a function for me quickly and easily instead of demanding my attention.
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@Ben said
The primary goal of 1Password mini is to quickly and efficiently fill items related to the website you're currently viewing, not necessarily to find items unrelated to what you're currently viewing. The Suggestions view in mini should be showing you any items that are relevant. If you're looking for something that isn't, then yes, you could either use the search at the top of mini
and
It is perhaps a bit ironic, as the new mini design is the result of a ton of customer feedback (and frankly backlash) when the mini that you see in 7.2 was released. Just shows that with such a large customer base it simply isn't possible to accommodate everyone's preferences. :)
The focus of the efforts has been to make accessing what is most relevant easily accessible which means fading everything else into the background, which is why Suggestions is the default showing.
I am among those who thought the previous mini was "too much", ending up as just another, but smaller, 1Password main window.
But...as @andmade observes
Because there is no longer a separation between different types of items in Suggestions, it does require more effort to scan the individual entries for the one that is the credit card rather than just going over to the credit card section (whether in the former Category pane or the former "Fill Credit Card" section under Suggestions). While it is better than the credit cards and identities not being there at all, it's not as clean or clear as the previous version.
This is it!
For example, if I launch mini on this page, the Suggestions show me 2 Logins, 1 Identity, and 5 Credit Cards. They seem to be sorted by category (luckily NOT alphabetically) but there is a lot of cognitive load involved in separating them (especially if I was on a financial site that might have a similar Login Item name as a Credit Card Item). Having a 7.2-like half-height category separator bar with labels would be an excellent improvement that IMO would not detract from your design goals.
A less significant complaint I have is that the new suggestions sidebar is space inefficient. I think you have done the right thing to include the Username field on the second line of Login Items so I can differentiate them, but why do you need to place the obscured credit card number below the Credit Card Item name? It seems unlikely to me that people have multiple cards only titled "Visa" and tell them apart by memorizing the last 4 digits of the account number. If you eliminated that second line, then you'd have more space (for the separator labels) AND actually help cognitive load since size would also be a differentiator. (For that matter Identities probably don't need to show Firstname Lastname on the second line either.)
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I love 1Password. I seriously dislike the new version. Specifically, when I open 1Password Mini, I used to be able to quickly see my Favorites. Fast, I could click on things I used most often. Now it defaults into this annoying "Suggestion" mode, and I have to then drop down to Favorites, and then click on what I want. If you want to offer this "Suggestion" option fine. But then why can't we set our default view the way we want it? This is very annoying.
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I'm addressing a different point in this post because even if Agilebits did nothing with respect to my previous post, I really think the Search UI has been broken in 7.3...
@Ben notes a UX philosophy
The primary goal of 1Password mini is to quickly and efficiently fill items related to the website you're currently viewing, not necessarily to find items unrelated to what you're currently viewing. The Suggestions view in mini should be showing you any items that are relevant.
I don't think this is the Primary goal. Yes, if I hit Cmd-\ it might mean I'm looking to fill something on that page. But in my case, probably >50% of the time I'm not.
If you're looking for something that isn't, then yes, you could either use the search at the top of mini
Most of the time this is exactly what I'm doing, hitting Cmd-\, typing a few characters in the Search field, and either hitting Return, or hitting Down Arrow once or twice followed by Return, to open and fill a new site. (These are both "primary" goals for mini.)
Previously, I said
For example, if I launch mini on this page, the Suggestions show me 2 Logins, 1 Identity, and 5 Credit Cards. They seem to be sorted by category (luckily NOT alphabetically)
And here's where 7.3's 1Password mini is "broken". On this page, if I hit Cmd-\, followed by "citi", Suggestions now shows me 2 Credit Cards, followed by 2 Login Items. In this case I want that first Login Item but now I have to cursor past the 2 Credit Cards to get there. It appears to be sorting the Suggestions first. Philosophically, I'd argue my act of typing into the search field should make my search higher priority than your Suggestions.
Under 7.2, the more convoluted UI forced the "correct" behavior by (seemingly) always sorting the results by category with the Logins category being first on the list.
Even worse, if I invoke mini on a blank page (or one with no suggestions), then type "citi" I get the same 4 results but now sorted alphabetically so the result is Credit Card, Login, Credit Card, Login. There's a lot wrong here: 1) sorting by name instead of category seems definitely wrong in this case (it's much harder to figure out where on the list you want to be), 2) on a page where there are no suggestions, Logins should be first, and 3) it's not even clear why a Credit Card should even be returned here (it certainly doesn't do anything if you hit Return on it).
I do understand this is a hard one to get right. Almost certainly someone will reply to this post with "I have 6 Identities for my family and 12 Credit Cards between us and I really count on the Suggestions to stay at the top of the list when I type in the search field", thus undermining my opinion that Search overrides Suggestion in priority. However, if you always presented results sorted by Category (with Logins as the first category) while keeping the suggested items highlighted in purple (and maybe even presented first in each category), I think you'd have a behavior that satisfied both camps (it would certainly make me happy :) )
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Following up to my own post. Over the past 24 hours I have become increasingly frustrated with mini in 7.3. The number of times I start on a page with no Suggestions and type 3-6 characters into the Search box and have it filter down to exactly TWO items and place the Login item SECOND on the list (putting a Credit Card or a Membership or a Reward Program Item first) is ridiculous.
Certainly I can't be the only person to have a Hilton card and a Hilton Login both starting with the word "Hilton". Am I supposed to make all my non-logins start with "z" to make sure they are lower on the list?
Please sort search results by category AND make Logins first. I'm about to be one of those revert-to-7.2 people...
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and place the Login item SECOND on the list (putting a Credit Card or a Membership or a Reward Program Item first) is ridiculous
I think that is a valid point. I'll file an issue to see if development bites. :)
Thanks, everyone, for the feedback here. There are other improvements that we are also considering.
Ben
ref: apple-3766
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Understood, and thank you. :) That seems quite reasonable. I agree that the new mini is overall an improvement, but I do also definitely see the points a number of folks are making, and I think there is more we can do. :+1:
Ben
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I don't understand how to easily access tags in the new mini. What am I missing?
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If you type the name of the tag in the search bar in mini it will show the items that have that tag applied. We are considering listing the tags that you have somewhere in the UI as well, but I can't make any promises on that at this point.
Ben
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I rechecked on suggestions not appearing - It occurred on sites where the login url had changed. Instead of updating the 1p login to a new one to match the URLS, I got lazy and just did searches in mini. I can workaround by not being so lazy.
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Have to agree with the comments about the new 1Password Mini being not as nice to use as previous versions.
I find I am spending more time looking for items than previously and using more mouse clicks to find and activate an item.
Could we get cascading menus back please.0 -
After installing the new version 7.3 I am really disappointed with the 1Password mini. In the previous version I could select a TAG and found all the options that I had dedicated to that tag. For Logins I now have to select first "Login" and then scroll through the (long) list to find my choice - or enter something in the search field and figure out what the right solution would be.
Too many mouse clicks!0 -
Further to my previous comment about wanting cascading menus back.
On average now, with the new Mini window, I have to use 6 mouse clicks and mouse movements before I can access a website I am logging in to. With a cascading menu it should only be 1 mouse click and hold, then down through the menus I want and release the mouse to activate the auto fill. Why can't this be the way to do it? The current method is ergonomically unsound.0 -
@Herbinator: Tags are something we're looking into adding to the dropdown menu (which can be accessed using
⌘ ↓), but you can type to search for any tag as well -- zero mouse clicks. :)0 -
That would be great if you add Tags to the dropdown menu. In addition, I would recommend to define in Preferences, which item from the dropdown menu should be default. That would be great. Thanks for consideration.
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Thanks for the feedback @Herbinator. We are evaluating how to best move forward with tags. :+1:
Ben
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