Keyboard end of life

PhilippPhilipp
edited November 2019 in Android Beta

Hi,
I understand you want to go with actual features. This old keyboard is not state of the art anymore. I welcome that, that you are always working on the latest possible functions and features and happy to try them out.

Please work on the problems and bugs which are reported to you too. New features only are not enough maybe.

Here are some examples:
1) Fill in for 2FA security at WhatsApp app is not working. You know this bug since August 2018. So therefore we have to start copy/paste the PIN from the 1Password app again or your force us to stop using 2FA for this app.
2) Firefox is not good support, often I used your keyboard. After long discussions with you I started to use Firefox Preview more often. But also here you force us to use an app with less security. Add-ons will supported from Mozilla soonest next year.
3) Only for example for some other apps too: Fill in for Miles & More app is not working. So we have to copy/paste such login details again.


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

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Comments

  • Please do not remove the keyboard!!!! There are still way too many times where the autofill functionality does not kick in correctly even on Android 10. I have to fall back on the keyboard at least several times a week.

  • mverdemverde

    Team Member

    @Philipp and @1password_kbuser thanks for letting us know that you continue to use the 1Password keyboard to manually fill your login credentials in some apps or websites. While we don't typically announce development plans ahead of time, we made an exception in this case because we know that there are a few people such as yourselves who continue to make use of the 1Password keyboard. With that in mind, I didn't want to remove the 1Password keyboard without first giving you the heads up.

    When we originally built the 1Password keyboard, it was to solve the problem of being able to fill credentials into apps and browsers without making use of the clipboard. This simply wasn't possible with any other mechanism at the time. Since then though, we've developed our accessibility and Autofill services to provide a much more seamless filling experience. And we've added support for drag and drop, so that you can manually fill in your credentials in those cases where automatic filling doesn't work with a particular app or website.

    So there are better ways of automatically and manually filling in your credentials from 1Password into other apps. At the same time, the 1Password keyboard lacks many of the amenities that are considered essential of a modern keyboard. The result is that the 1Password keyboard just isn't the right tool for the job anymore and it is time for us to remove it.

    We are continually working to improve our Autofill and accessibility services, so you're able to easily fill into more apps and websites than ever before. Although drag and drop is available for those times when automatic filling isn't, our goal is for you to have to rely on it as little as possible. With that in mind, I'd love to have you tell us more about any apps or websites where you're not able to fill in your credentials (thanks for providing those specific examples @Philipp). This will help us make 1Password better for everyone!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited November 2019

    @SomeFancyName: No, let's not. We can have the same conversation here in a single place and avoid a lot of confusion and duplication of effort for everyone. I'll close the other discussion. :):+1:

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @deepdvd: We can't recommend sticking with something outdated, but you're right that how split screen is accessed can very depending on the device and how up to date it is with Android. And while not all apps support split screen anyway, and ultimately it's up to their developers to finally adopt technologies and guidelines Google introduced years ago, we'll continue to work on filling and to see what we can do to offer more options when 1Password cannot fill directly itself. It's worth noting that before Google introduced OpenYOLO, Android Autofill, and allowed password managers to use accessibility for filling, we had only the 1Password keyboard and got a lot of complaints about it. That's diminished dramatically in recent years since the availability of Autofill and Accessibility and deprecation of the keyboard, which most 1Password users have now forgotten or never even knew existed. I was one of the people who advocated strongly for keeping the keyboard this long because, as you rightly point out, it can still be useful in some rare cases, and it wasn't like we needed to do work to keep it. But more recently it's become a liability in that having it as part of 1Password actually causes some compatibility issues. So It's not something we can hold onto for much longer. I thank you for the specific examples of problem apps, and we'll work on ways to have 1Password help in those kinds of situations without holding it back; the keyboard has to go though.

  • +1 for @deepdvd. To be fair, I haven't tried drag and drop as the keyboard was always my go-to method when autofill didn't work (which is, unfortunately, pretty common). I promise to give it a fair shot. But my gut tells me this is going to be painful. Using split screen is always such a bad experience (especially for those of us who prefer smaller smartphones), and so many apps don't support it at all, that relying on that for the fallback option feels like a big step back.

    It's easy to push the blame onto the other apps; after all, Android has supported split screen for years now. That's kind of fair, but at the same time, let's not kid ourselves. We know e.g. banks are never going to be at the forefront of Android development.

    I do appreciate the need to keep a lean codebase. If that means the keyboard has to go, so be it, but could there be some other fallback for auto fill besides split screen? Maybe a persistent notification or something that pops up a box to drag and drop from?

    One last suggestion: the help page the keyboard links to about how to fill logins doesn't make any mention of drag and drop. Could that be added? I was originally a lot more up-in-arms because I thought you guys were taking away the only fallback for when autofill doesn't work.

  • @mverde

    Since then though, we've developed our accessibility and Autofill services to provide a much more seamless filling experience.

    Autofill service is great, when it works. I use it all the time. But a large number of websites (slowly decreasing) don't work with autofill, and a good number of apps don't either.

    Accessibility service renders your device encryption useless by changing the encryption password to "default_password" when you enable it. I can change it back, but I don't want to always be wondering whether my device is really encrypted or not. I value device encryption more than easy autofill. Plus accessibility drains battery. "Use the accessibility feature" is a nonstarter for me.

    And we've added support for drag and drop, so that you can manually fill in your credentials in those cases where automatic filling doesn't work with a particular app or website.

    Drag and drop doesn't work at all into Firefox for some reason. It seems to work reasonably well in Chrome, but then, I don't use Chrome unless I'm forced to by a website that doesn't work (or to bypass a paywall with another few free monthly articles in a new browser).

    And as others have pointed out, not all apps support split screen. I even tried forcing all apps into split screen in my developer settings and I still can't split screen a few of them.

    So there are better ways of automatically and manually filling in your credentials from 1Password into other apps. At the same time, the 1Password keyboard lacks many of the amenities that are considered essential of a modern keyboard. The result is that the 1Password keyboard just isn't the right tool for the job anymore and it is time for us to remove it.

    1Password is definitely the right tool for the job, if "the job" is filling passwords when autofill and drag-and-drop won't work.

    If "the job" is "replacing a fully featured keyboard" then I'd agree with you. But I have no desire to use the 1Password keyboard as my primary fully-featured keyboard. It does exactly the job I want it to.

    The clipboard on Android is horribly insecure. I have no idea who might be listening to the keyboard. I will never copy-paste passwords on my phone if I have any other option.

    If you continue with the plan to remove the keyboard, I will need to resort to using my KeePass backup and making a better effort to keep it synced with 1Password. KeePass2Android has an excellent keyboard that works even better than 1Password's. You can "share" web pages to KeePass2Android to automatically search for exactly the right website by URL rather than scrolling through a list of every site you've ever used the keyboard with like 1Password.

    Could you at least enable the keyboard as an option? Or even a separate download?

  • edited November 2019

    Agree with the poster above - would be nice if the keyboard could at least be released as a separate apk so those of us who rely on the keyboard still could use it. I honestly don't care about the keyboard functionality, just the filling functionality - it's the easiest, fastest, and most secure way to fill passwords when the buggy Android autofill doesn't kick in properly.

  • beirnebeirne Junior Member

    I'd like for 1Password to keep the keyboard. I'm finding that the Autofill works fine for passwords but not the user field. Sometimes I rememember which user ID I used but often I do not. They keyboard seems less clumsy than switching to 1Password, hunting, copying, and pasting.


  • example of a web view in twitter not having auto fill.
    Without the keyboard I would have to open the app, login, and copy and paste twice. Wayyy to much hassle.

  • WallzWallz
    edited November 2019

    I agree with all 1password users posts above! I think it would be beneficial to allow users to vote on it on the Forum with an agree button, or even more simpler for each one password user having the ability to vote when they do use the keyboard because they already know of the work around when the autofill doesn't work. And when they see the pop up settings 1password keyboard will be going away soon having the ability to vote at that point.
    This would give you an idea of how many people are using this workaround, instead of them complaining or looking for help on the forum after it's gone as this is how I found the workaround, because it was very frustrating when autofill (multiple times a day) and will not work as I have noticed since I have updated both of my devices to Android Pie.

  • @mverde , just want to echo my thoughts on this topic. I am in favor of keeping the keyboard integration.
    As you might be aware that android lets you choose the keyboard layout on the fly, i always use this to switch to 1password keyboard when autofill is not supported by the app. your team should consider leaving that option to the user. the keyboard feature your app provides is good enough than the workaround suggested like copy-paste, split-screen drag-n-drop etc.
    as @Philipp suggested please focuz of adding features/resolving issues, rather than removing whats working for a percentage of your user base. You are already getting competition from Google password manager(which has beta support for password generation) and KeePassXC

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited November 2019

    Although it's improved a bit in recent years, for many users it's still inconvenient (perhaps an understatement) to switch keyboards, depending on the OS version and vendor customizations. And more recently there are also compatibility issues cropping up which make it problematic to keep they keyboard anyway. So we're working on both improving Autofill and Accessibility compatibility, but also adding tools there that can help in cases where those do not work well. Thanks everyone for the feedback here. If any other specific apps, websites, or use cases come up, please share them so we can use those as test cases as well. Happy holidays! :)

  • Reading here because of the notice in the app, and firstly, I didn't know there was support for drag-drop on 1P/Android.

    Please don't remove the keyboard, as for me that would make 1P on my phone unusable: it's stuck on Android 7, so no fancy autofill features. It's too new (only 2-and-a-bit) years old to justify throwing the phone out. As others have said, frequently apps don't let me use alternatives.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Android 7 celebrated the 3 year birthday of its general release 3 months ago, and no longer receives security updates. As such, that's not something we can recommend, and seems especially antithetical when ostensibly using 1Password to be more secure; an outdated OS with known unpatched vulnerabilities as a result is not a suitable foundation for security. That said, Accessibility should be an available option even on an old device/OS, and we'll continue working to make that more helpful both generally but also based on specific test cases shared with us.

  • You asked to be notified of Android apps that do not work with autofill without the 1PW keyboard. How to I deliver that info? Also, fyi, split screen drag and drop does not work on my Android 8.0.0 Galaxy S7 for certain apps. All of my apps worked with the 1PW keyboard and if I cannot use my apps after you do away with this keyboard I will be forced to drop my subscription to 1PW and find something that works. Not withstanding what you've said are the reasons for dropping the 1PW keyboard, you need to realize you will do real harm to many users such as myself you can't get your "work arounds" to work.

  • periperi

    Team Member
    edited December 2019

    @wh472 Feel free to report issues here in our forum or over email at [email protected]. Autofill, Accessibility, and drag and drop are the main methods for filling rather than workarounds. Please let us know of any apps you're having trouble with so we can help.

  • @peri as I mentioned in my post, drag and drop doesn't work AT ALL in Firefox for Android. As in, nothing happens whatsoever when I drag a username or password from 1Password into a text entry field in Firefox. That's pretty much a show stopper all by itself. Any websites that don't work with autofill will be inaccessible to me on my primary phone browser when the keyboard is gone. I know Chrome has the lion's share of the browser market in general and on Android in particular, but is a Chrome-only feature really something you want to promote as the one-and-only secure fallback?

  • Like, seriously you guys, after using the excellent keyboard in KeePass2Android, I consider at least basic keyboard-based password entry to be an essential feature of an Android password manager. Even if it's a "power user" feature I really think the plan to remove it entirely.

  • periperi

    Team Member

    @fritzophrenic I use Firefox as my main browser on Android and find that Autofill and Accessibility work when I need them to. If you notice any specific sites you're having trouble with, please let us know.

    @SomeFancyName I'm not sure I fully understand your analogy. You'll never be locked out of anything due to the keyboard going away. As we've mentioned previously, Autofill, Accessibility, and drag and drop fill in most cases. If there are any instances where you notice that none of these work, let us know.

  • @peri as I mentioned, I do not and will not be using the Accessibility service. It is not designed for the purpose (unlike autofill), it drains battery, the last I read Google even was planning to disallow use of it for things like password managers once autofill was more universally supported, and more importantly it renders device encryption useless when enabled. You can fix the encryption by setting a password again, but I'd rather not find myself wondering whether or not my phone is usefully encrypted at basically all times. I consider Accessibilty-based password managers to be a clever but ultimately deprecated and security-compromising hack.

    Autofill does work really well in Firefox most of the time. But when it doesn't work I need a reliable and secure fallback. The keyboard provides exactly this. I currently have 10 sites in the search list for the 1password keyboard, which probably means the autofill popup either failed to appear or failed to fill for those 10 sites at some point. Without the keyboard I would not have been able to use 1Password to login without compromising my security either by enabling accessibilty or resorting to the clipboard.

    Does drag and drop work for you on any site in Firefox? If this does work then I have my fallback again even if I like the keyboard better. But right now it simply doesn't function at all for me.

  • Curious: has 1password explored floating views (like how Facebook does those annoying chat heads), as a simpler alternative to drag/drop? It's a lot of user effort to split screen IMO, and being able to instantly launch a floating view could be way easier.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    That's a really interesting point about Facebook's method, and if it weren't for StrandHogg it might be tempting to at least look into it. But we have to be picky about the technologies we use because many can be abused.

    It's true that Google originally announced 3 years or so ago that Accessibility was not for password managers to use, but they reversed after listening to feedback from the industry and we've been working with them on that ever since.

    Anyway, as mentioned above, we're looking into other options that can serve as a fallback when the keyboard is removed -- which, it has not been; I feel like I need to point that out given some of the comments being tossed around.

  • For some reason I can't see any of my comments on this discussion if I am not logged in. What's going on?

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