New mini finds Identity over login entries???

gveres

Hi,

I just updated to 1Password 7 (mac os) from 1Password 6.

I have a business called SkyCourt Fitness Inc, which has a website that my users log into (skycourt.ca). I use the 1password entry to log into my site multiple times a day and with 1password 6, everything worked perfectly.

Now with v7, when I type 'sky', instead of getting the login entries in the mini list first, I get the identity for my business first. This seems like a bug that it isn't prioritizing the login entries over the identity entries. Identity does come alphabetically before login, after all.

My identity's name field is: SkyCourt Fitness Inc
My login entry's name field is: SkyCourt - Admin

and as you can see, I am typing 'sky'.

Is there anything I can do (other than rename my identity record) to get mini to list things like they were listed in 1password 6?

Thanks
Greg

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1Password Version: 7.3.1
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: OS X 10.14.6 beta
Sync Type: family

littlebobbytables

Hi @gveres,

It took a while to reproduce but I think I've narrowed down the required scenario. If I tried searching from the tab where I'm replying to you then it orders the Identity item before the Login item. It was also the case that for some reason 1Password had decided something on this page looked like an identity related field. If I searched from an empty tab it would order the Login item above the Identity item.

I wonder if you can see if what I've found is something you're able to reproduce. Is it the case that your typical workflow just happens to mean that you tend to want to open-and-fill for your business site on a page or pages that somehow look like they're after identity related details? So is 1Password showing you Identity items before you search and do you find the Login item appears at the top if you search from an empty tab?

If you find the same then really what we need to do is learn more about the pages that 1Password is incorrectly identifying as being Identity related as what feels like the correct behaviour would be to favour Identity items when on a page that is asking for those details. The first step is just to find out if we've nailed down the cause so I'll be quite interested to learn what you find.

gveres

Ok I see what you are saying. For instance, I just hit ctrl-\ to bring up the mini ui and then typed sky. The first element in the list is the skycourt identity followed by the skycourt website login entries. If I go to youtube.com, I get the same thing. But if I am actually on skycourt.ca and hit the hot key, I get the login entries coming up first.

Here is the problem with how this is working. I have been using 1password since version 2 or 3 and what I love about it is that it has become my bookmark manager. I don't use bookmarks in the browser at all anymore. I just type ctrl-\, type the first couple of letters of the site I want to go to and hit enter to go to that site. It has worked near flawlessly until now.

My problem with the way it is working is that I am going to be on some random page when I want to go to SkyCourt and I don't care what that page is looking for, I am expecting 1password to give me the login entry for SkyCourt.

The first step is just to find out if we've nailed down the cause so I'll be quite interested to learn what you find.

So, yes I think that is correct, it is detecting that the page is looking for identity info. (which it really isn't in the case of youtube and me being already logged in).

If you find the same then really what we need to do is learn more about the pages that 1Password is incorrectly identifying as being Identity related as what feels like the correct behaviour would be to favour Identity items when on a page that is asking for those details.

The problem with this approach is that I am going to be on a random site when I want to go to SkyCourt. (or any of my other book marks for that matter).

littlebobbytables

Hi @gveres,

So with the intelligent suggestions now in 1Password for Mac the idea is to bring the most appropriate items to the top and not show those that don't seem to be applicable. The question of the search field then becomes whether its used more for filtering before filling the current tab or used for open-and-fill. We don't collect usage data so I'm not sure we'll ever be able to say with confidence which is used more given it's likely a combination of an individual's preference and possibly a case-by-case question as well.

This is pretty much the first iteration so there are likely still lessons to learn. It could mean certain behaviour changes, maybe we revert some things if we gain a good idea that they aren't working. For now though it will mean accommodating the new behaviour, either by initiating open-and-fill from an empty tab (which 1Password will use) or if you didn't already know you can use the up and down arrow keys for navigation even when keyboard focus is on the search field so down arrow then enter for open-and-fill.

I do appreciate how that may not seem great given how you use 1Password and I'm sure others fall into this category as well, it will be if this is useful for more people than it slows down and we may not know for a while if there is a clear winner or not.

gveres

Well, my feeling is that this is a very negative new development. Please pass that along as feedback to whoever is collecting the data to make future decisions.

I just tried it on this page as I was typing this response. It brought up the SkyCourt identity so I decided to see what hitting enter would do. There was no visible action based on hitting enter. So maybe there is some improvement that can be made where there is nothing that the page would do with an identity record. Here are two pages to test with:

youtube.com when a user is logged in
discussions.agilebits.com

Maybe it is also worth instrumenting the code so that you do get feedback from the field on how people are using the product. It's the frictions like this (causing people to change their primary workflow) that cause users to abandon the product. This is definitely a change that would cause me to abandon the product, or should I say, this is the kind of change that would cause me to finally check out one of the competitors.

But thanks for investigating and determining what is happening and why.

littlebobbytables

Greetings @gveres,

So the latter is something I don't think we can ever do, not without a significant risk to our users faith in 1Password. We have to be extremely careful about what gets logged and that's when 1Password doesn't transmit anything. Given how sensitive the data 1Password handles I just can't see the potential gain from telemetry ever being enough to even hint at 1Password gathering data, not even in a disabled by default, opt-in scenario. The mere presence of such an option could cause panic and stress and with good reason. If you're not extremely careful even the best of intentions can cause significant leaks in data.

It's very much an iterative process and every so often we do need to take risks to ensure 1Password moves forward. The hope is we learn from each attempt as we either refine or on occasion revert and that we find ways to hopefully make 1Password either more intuitive or friendlier to use. In the short term it will mean accommodating the current behaviour, any change can only be a change to the code unlike say a filling issue with a specific site where often there may be a temporary workaround. Then going forward we'll have to see what weaknesses we believe there are with the current design and how best to address them.