Moving smoothly from a "demo member" to an actual one?

williakz

OK, I'm just about ready to help one of my (few) computer-literate family members convert from pad and pencil (actually spreadsheet) to 1Password 7 for Families.

My thought is to first set up a 1Password environment where, together via remote screen-sharing, we create a "demo member" whose email, Master Password, and Secret Key it is acceptable for me to know in the course of going through the member activation process. Then I can proceed to show my family member how to populate and use 1Password on all their devices to access websites, store confidential info, etc.

Once we're both comfortable with their ability to use the package going forward, my intention is to delete entirely the "demo member" then, separately with just phone support, go through the "standard" family member setup (invite, activate, confirm, populate, etc.) to makeover the now open slot for the "real" member where their Master Password and Secret Key are not known (or knowable) to me.

However, with all the tangles and lockouts your users seem to get into with accounts, members, Master Passwords, Secret Keys, etc. I want to run my scheme by you folks for any cautions, advisements, or suggestions you may have. I currently have two open slots (3 actual members out of 5 total) so no problem there. My family member's devices are: a MacBook Pro on High Sierra, an iPhone with the current IOS, and a PC on Windows 10. Please look over my plan and let me know of any pitfalls you see or improvements you can suggest so I can keep my New Year's resolution a few days longer than I was able to last year...

---

1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

ag_ana

My thought is to first set up a 1Password environment where, together via remote screen-sharing, we create a "demo member" whose email, Master Password, and Secret Key it is acceptable for me to know in the course of going through the member activation process.

Could you not avoid using this extra user altogether, and help them setup their account directly while you are on screen sharing? If this account is going to be used just for the demo, and will then be deleted, perhaps this step won't be necessary.

williakz

Thanks for your response, @ag_ana. I had considered doing just what you suggest.

The problem is I don't wish to compromise their sense of privacy and security by snooping on their initial account setup AND I'm not comfortable that they would be able to correctly go through the somewhat unusual process of exchanging their compromised (by me) info for newly generated Master Password/Secret Key info by themselves.

By remoting in with them on the initial dummy account setup, I can carefully and deliberately show them EXACTLY what they will be doing during the subsequent setup of their real account (they can even take video of the process). As well, I want the opportunity to share screen time with them actually USING 1Password and going through its various menus, preferences, and extensions (as can be done at leisure using the dummy account) so they minimize the need for me to remote in (thereby compromising the security of their real account) or having to settle for less than full support (I could only help by phone or email/text) if we went for direct setup of their real account. Do you see my dilemma?

ag_ana

I see what you mean. If you prefer using this demo account then, just make sure you remove it after you are done so you can keep the account clean from unused accounts. I cannot think of anything else that differs from a regular account creation.

Ultimately, using this demo account or not won't change anything: it will just make things a bit longer and more complicated because they will have to setup the account by themselves afterwards, without you on the screen sharing session, but it won't change their setup process at all (they will still have to receive the invitation email and sign up normally).

I would personally just stress the importance of downloading the Emergency Kit and writing their Master Password in it. If they have their credentials and are able to access their account, you won't have to go through account recovery.

williakz

Thanks for noodling my plan, @ag_ana. It will certainly result in a process "longer and more complicated" than is usually necessary. However, repetition is an essential element in practice making perfect, as they say. In that vein, please instruct or refer me to instructional materials on the process of deleting a family member (dummy or otherwise) along with all their vaults, contents, and history from 1Password to free up an "open slot" and without affecting other family members. Thanks again for your help.

ag_ana

It is certainly up to you how you decide to go about doing this. What I wrote was my personal opinion since you asked for suggestions on how to improve the process, but at the end of the day you should use the process that makes you feel most comfortable. I think your mind is pretty set already on how to do this, so I suggest proceeding with the process you have planned.

When it comes to freeing up the demo slot, here you can find the instructions on how to remove a user from a Families account.

williakz

Thanks @ag_ana. One last question (I promise):

For my own familiarity, I want to go through the demo account setup and deletion process here on a test machine before I do it remotely on my family member's machine. However, all my machines are currently up and running with 1Password7 Mac and 1Password X tied to my actual membership/account.

How do I clean out a given machine (MacBook Pro) without affecting my real 1Password.com account in order to free it up so I can invite it to become a demo member? (I have several separate email addresses available for temporary use.)

williakz

Do I simply uninstall 1Password for Mac as well as the 1Password X extension on the test machine? Is that enough to ready it to accept the invite or do I need to put its 1Password through the application shredder to ensure there are no "hooks" left behind into my existing 1Password membership/account that could interfere with setting up the demo environment? Thanks in advance for any guidance or referrals to relevant material.

ag_ana

If this demo account comes from a different 1Password account than your personal one, you can even add both to the app and extension.

Otherwise you can sign out from the current one you are using and login with the demo one. There is no need to uninstall the app or the extension if all you want to do is switch accounts.

williakz

Thanks, @ag_ana. I've only got a single 5-member 1Password Families account with 3 currently active members. None of the 3 or the 2 additional ones coming on board have or have ever had any other 1Password accounts. The active member count will be going to 4 with the demo, then back to 3 on its deletion, then back to 4 as my actual family member comes on board. I'll simply repeat the process for the final family member.

So the steps to set up a demo account are:

1. Sign out of existing member account (applies only to me if I wish to "demo the demo" on my own test machine and devices)

2. Accept invitation to join 1P Families sent by Family Organizer to (demo) account email

3. Create Master Password and Secret Key for (demo) account
4. Family Organizer to confirm (demo) account setup
5. Install 1P7 Mac app, 1PX extension, 1P7 IOS, 1P7 Windows (only needed if not previously installed)
6. Log into (demo) account, configure 1Password, devices, and browsers as desired
7. Populate and operate (demo) account on devices as desired
8. When no longer needed, sign out of and have Family Organizer delete (demo) account

Then I simply repeat the procedure, Steps 1-7, replacing (demo) with (actual) for my family member's actual 1Password account.

Do I have things correct?

ag_ana

That sounds good to me :+1:

williakz

@ag_ana: It might sound good to you, however 1Password was less than impressed...

I managed steps 1 through 4 just like downtown. Step 5 was not required since 1Password 7 for Mac and 1Password X were already installed on the MacBook Pro (my only test device so far).

Step 6 is the problem: While I CAN login to Demo's (the username) account on 1password.com with no problem, I cannot log into the 1Password app using Demo's new Master Password on ANY of my machines. I'm getting the Master Password palsy and 1Password's red ring of death. Am I still somehow logged into 1Password with my usual account which is preventing me from opening it with Demo's MP? Surely 1Password.com is aware of Demo's appearance? In addition to letting Demo login, I logged in as Family Organizer and Demo is shown as an "Active" member.

Note: when I try to sign into 1Password.com as another account, I get a deauthorization notice and am asked to enter my Secret Key (I decided to stop right there and bleat for help). This kind of shakeout is EXACTLY why I want to demo this stuff in a test environment BEFORE visiting such mayhem and confusion on my elderly relative.

Any ideas where to go and what to try next?

ag_ana

Am I still somehow logged into 1Password with my usual account which is preventing me from opening it with Demo's MP?

Probably yes.

Surely 1Password.com is aware of Demo's appearance? In addition to letting Demo login, I logged in as Family Organizer and Demo is shown as an "Active" member.

The way 1Password unlocks is:

• If a Primary vault exists, then it unlocks using the Master Password for that vault, regardless of what, if any, memberships are signed in
• If a single 1Password membership is signed in, then it unlocks using the Master Password for that membership account
• If multiple memberships are signed in, then it unlocks using the Master Password of the first added membership

These are each exclusive scenarios. For example, if multiple memberships are signed in, you cannot unlock 1Password using the Master Password of the second account that was added.

williakz

That's all well and good, but it doesn't address my situation in any practical sense. I asked upthread whether it was necessary to uninstall and/or appclean 1Password apps in order to effect the switch between member accounts. You told me I could simply sign out from one and sign into another. You responded: "There is no need to uninstall the app or the extension if all you want to do is switch accounts."

How do I correct my current situation where the 1Password apps on my test machine appear to be unable or unwilling to accept logins from a duly authorized member. To be clear, I now have 4 members shown as "Active" in 1password.com when I login as Family Organizer, 3 actual members, including myself, and Demo. I can also login to 1Password.com as Demo where I then see and can access the two standard vaults as well as the additional one shared between Demo and Family Organizer that I set up to hold access data (logins).

However, I wish to "switch" the 1Password for Mac and 1Password X apps on my test machine (and possibly elsewhere) from accepting Master Password logins from one of those users (Family Organizer) to accepting logins from another user (Demo). How do I do so?

williakz

@ag_ana:

Please advise ASAP as my project is now stuck betwixt and between.

Ben

However, I wish to "switch" the 1Password for Mac and 1Password X apps on my test machine (and possibly elsewhere) from accepting Master Password logins from one of those users (Family Organizer) to accepting logins from another user (Demo). How do I do so?

The best / easiest way may be to establish distinct macOS user accounts for each:

Set up users, guests, and groups on Mac - Apple Support

Ben

williakz

Thanks @Ben. I'm familiar with user accounts in macOS. However, I see some potential issues using that mechanism here.

My goal is to stand up a temporary and non-confidential demo member/account I can use to demonstrate 1P operation to my remote family member before it is replaced with their own permanent and confidential member/account for use in the normal way.

With multiple user accounts on macOS, my family member would lose the context of their existing user account (Safari bookmarks, applications and their data files, and myriad user-based customizations). And that approach still leaves 1P iOS for their iPhone as well as 1P Windows for their laptop completely unaddressed (and likely fraught even if doable).

I'm not particularly concerned with what is easiest for me to do (as I have the time and ability to take the project on), but rather what most closely meets my goal in creating and operating the demo environment. I'll be happy to go through whatever procedures are necessary to commission it, use it, then clean it up after my family member and I are done demoing and ready to get on with the real McCoy.

I guess the acid test is: can 1P be "switched" from one (family) member to another without having to delete the original member's account, vaults, and local data on all devices? If no, I've got a problem. If yes, how?

Ben

I don't really see why you couldn't simply sign out from one 1Password account / reset the apps and then sign in with a different 1Password account, but that isn't really a scenario we tested or designed for, and so I don't have a way of providing specific instructions or conclusive expected results.

I can see how such a thing might be useful in some cases, so I'd be happy to suggest to our QA team that we add that to our testing suite going forward, but that doesn't help you for the immediate future. I suppose I'd suggest trying to sign out of your own 1Password account (which again may require resetting the apps) and then try signing into your "demo" account, as that'll essentially be the same procedure you'd need to do with your family member but in reverse.

For 1Password for Mac you cannot remove the last account. Instead you'd use the Help > Troubleshooting > Reset All 1Password Data option from the menu bar. Likewise 1Password for iOS will not allow you to remove the last account. Instead you can use 1Password > Settings > Advanced > Erase All 1Password Data.

Ben

williakz

Thanks for the guidance, @Ben. Now that I know there's no "right" path that I'm just missing, I'll be happy to blaze some of my own trails—wherever they lead!

I got you 5x5 on the iOS reset - I'll play with it later on a spare iPhone I've got (first link it up to Demo, then reset on my way out). I'm less clear on the other "resets" you mention. Could you please tell me what you mean by "resetting the apps" and how it's done? Oh, and how does 1Password for Windows fit into all this? My family member has a PC on Windows 10 that will need to bolt up to 1P at least until Apple-friendly app substitutes are identified and installed elsewhere.

Also, you mention 1PM's "Reset all 1Password Data" option that is required to deal with the 5th of 5 family members (in my case). Does that mean the final member can only be modified, never deleted? Seems that as long as history can be reset, it shouldn't make a difference. Wait, what about the Private vault and its history that cannot be deleted?

Anyway, what's the scope of that data reset option? Does it simply remove all current 1P data (belonging to whomever) on the Mac, leaving all apps intact (1PM and 1PX or 1Px-dars)? If so, could that be the answer to my problem on the test machine that's still pointed (by 1PM's data) at my Family Organizer account? As long as the data removal doesn't feed back to 1Password.com or wherever else my essential FO data lives, I'm fine with it zapping whatever lives on my test machine. I'd probably first delete the current Demo account on 1Password.com, then reset 1P data on the Mac test machine, then start all over with a new invitation. Can you assure me that the reset option, when exercised on the test machine, won't affect my FO account or those of my other family members on any other devices?

Thanks again for the compass. Now for the map.

bundtkate

Resetting 1Password only removes your local data, @williakz. It's, quite literally, a reset button that will let the specific app you reset open like you've never used it before so you can sign in to a different account – the demo, in this case. You can then run your test, get a feel for what you'll show your family, and reset again to go back to your own account when you're done. When you sign in with your credentials, your data will sync right up, just like if you were adding a new device.

This will prevent you from using your data on the device in question until you do that second reset and sign back in with your account credentials. So, when you set off to do that test, make sure that you've got access to everything of yours you'll need on another device and a copy of your Emergency Kit so you're easily able to sign back in to your account when the time comes.

Finally, on the "how to?" front, Ben covered that in his previous reply.

Mac

use the Help > Troubleshooting > Reset All 1Password Data option from the menu bar.

iOS

use 1Password > Settings > Advanced > Erase All 1Password Data.

On Windows, it's actually the same menu options as Mac – Help > Troubleshooting > Reset All 1Password Data. If you've done that process on Mac, you can do it on Windows as well. :+1:

Additionally, you might find our Getting Started guide helpful to share with your family member:

https://support.1password.com/explore/get-started/

There are videos for some of these steps as well that might save you some time in your demo.

And if I can make one final suggestion, 1Password X is cross-platform – it's available on both Mac and Windows (as well as other operating systems) and works just about the same everywhere. For an elderly family member that will likely use 1Password primarily in their browser, you might consider setting them up with just 1Password X. It's easier to get up and running than the desktop apps in my opinion. It's also a lot easier for folks who have no password manager experience to use. The inline menu is a small thing, but it does an awesome job at hand-holding and reminding folks they have an app to fill passwords with the icon right in those fillable fields. :chuffed:

williakz

Thanks a ton, @bundtkate. I'll get right back on the project with my spiffy new tools. Hopefully a decent intro methodology will be the result.

The reason for my general fuzziness on Windows is that I rarely use it and have only an old Windows 7 laptop and an ancient Windows XP desktop (retired music server) while my family member is quite familiar with their new-ish Windows 10 laptop and is just now ramping up on the MacBook Pro I sent them. So they know what I don't and I know what they don't. Recipe for learning if not exactly success.

That's food for thought on the solo 1Password X scenario. Could be a real smooth entrance ramp to 1Password with a later install of the desktop app if and when my family member wishes to record secure info in categories other than just logins. I'll have to run one of my machines bare bones like that to see if anything essential goes missing along with the desktop app. Thanks again for looking in.

williakz

@ben and @bundtkate:

The reset apps trick works a treat! I can reliably zip back and forth between two members (just FO and Demo so far—I didn't want to chance messing up my other family members' use of 1P or alarm them with notifications). I get nice clean iterations of the 1Password for Mac desktop app properly linked to the correct member's vault data with Safari happily trailing along behind.

Unfortunately, not so with Chrome and Firefox and their 1Password X extensions (I don't load or use browser extensions—desktop app required). Both browsers appear to require removal and reinstallation of their 1Password X extension before entry of the MP is accepted and access to vault data is granted. Otherwise the lock screen just sits there, appearing to be processing the entered MP, but nothing happens, no error message or anything.

I'll play with this setup some more when I have time over the next few days. I still have iOS and Windows devices to test as well. I'll also want to explore the limitations imposed by the non-deletion of the last family member (as that may well apply to my situation at some point during the "Demo dance" with my family member). Thanks to everyone for the technical assistance. You guys have quite the product there!

(Oh, and I misspoke above thinking that 1Password X was limited to logins—obviously not so. I think I may try going solo myself for a while to test its mix of power and simplicity.)

Ben

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction. :)

Ben

bundtkate

Also, @williakz, you'll need to sign out of 1Password X independently. The reset instructions won't impact it. Here's how:

1. Unlock.
2. Right-click (sorry – Windows words as that's my world – control + click on Mac, I think?) on the extension icon and select Settings.
3. Scroll down to "Accounts & Vaults" then click "sign out" next to your account.

The effect here is the same as resetting the desktop apps – next time you click the extension, you'll be asked to sign in again. :+1:

Another thing worth noting since you mentioned nothing actually unlocking when you tried things before, there is a known issue where clicking the lock button doesn't work under certain circumstances. Pressing enter/return will still unlock. I've also ran into one case where I personally managed to make it seem I was stuck on the web sign-in screen when setting up 1Password X. The extension was set up and worked, but it wasn't exactly obvious. That bit I am almost positive has been fixed, but it may only be in beta at the moment. Anyway, just two things your comment made me think of that might be of help. :chuffed:

Oh, and finally, if you happen to use desktop app integration (requires both the Mac app beta and 1Password X beta), I'd probably turn that off for your demo. It makes signing in and out of accounts a bit more complicated since the extension's accounts need to match the Mac app's. Plus, I'd wager your family member probably isn't going to be using the betas anyway, so your demo will be more accurate to what they can expect to see.

And, with that, I'll stop piling on unsolicited advice and let you get to it. :wink: Of course, if I can be of more help, just let me know.

williakz

Hi again, @bundtkate,

I'm working my way through all the permutations of account switching across Mac, Windows, and iOS devices, apps, and browsers. BTW, Mac's right-click is two-finger click on a trackpad or single click on right-hand side of Magic Mouse.

On my Windows 7 test machine, all my browsers—Internet Explorer, Chrome, Firefox, and Edge (beta)—have 1PX extensions installed EXCEPT for IE. That's a problem as my family member mainly uses IE and occasionally Edge (beta) on their Windows 10 machine. I've configured iCloud so their bookmarks across Mac, iPhone, and PC are live-synced (manual sync only for the Edge beta, might can go live after stable version released). Can I do anything to bring IE into the 1PX fold or no?

williakz

@Ben:

I was playing around with 1P7 Mac and 1PX for my browsers on my MacBook Pro test machine, and I wondered: since they're independent apps, could one of the apps be "switched" via reset app and new sign-in to one family member account (say, mine as FO) while the other was left running as a different family member (say Demo)? Yep, they can.

Then I recalled you guys are working on the rollout of Desktop Integration between the two apps. If you haven't already, you might want to check out how this "split personality" trick might affect your integration project and vice versa.

williakz

@Ben, you said above:

For 1Password for Mac you cannot remove the last account. Instead you'd use the Help > Troubleshooting > Reset All 1Password Data option from the menu bar. Likewise 1Password for iOS will not allow you to remove the last account. Instead you can use 1Password > Settings > Advanced > Erase All 1Password Data. >

Are you saying (as I initially inferred) that there's something special about the 5th and last family member (in the usual 5-member family account)? Or are you referring to the final remaining family member (FO, I assume) in the 1Password Families account? In other words, that a logged-in account member cannot self-delete the family account and must settle instead for deleting their own local data wherever it exists using the reset apps tools you mentioned?

Please let me know ASAP as my demo-then-add-family-member project is stuck until I understand just what's what.

williakz

@Ben and @bundtkate:

Tickler—could you please address my questions for you above?

My family member will be ready to join 1Password in just a few days.

Thanks in advance.

Ben

@williakz

My comment was entirely about the apps and not at all about the order in which people are added/removed from your membership. 1Password for Mac won't allow you to remove the only membership account that is signed in from it, and as such in order to get back to a place where that account is not signed in and you can instead sign in to a different one you'll need to use the procedure I outlined.

Ben

williakz

Thanks, @Ben. I think I get it now.

bundtkate

I'm glad Ben was able to clear things up, @williakz! And my apologies for not hopping in here sooner. I got an e-mail notification about your last message, but not the ones before it for some reason and since I spend most of my time hiding in the Windows area of the forum, I didn't see it when doing my rounds. Please forgive me and all the best in getting your family member up and running. :chuffed: