Feedback after moving to Families from 1Password 6

marklme

I have a question I probably should have asked before moving to Families from 1PW 6: Can I keep my old primary vault for "a while" (during the 30 day free trial or until everything and all family members are doing OK)? I want to preserve the option of reverting to the old standalone vault in case I stumble on some "gotcha" with Families (which I don't expect).

I also want to provide some feedback after going through the migration to Families process. I did a lot of reading in this forum, watching tutorial videos, etc to try to familiarize myself with the lingo and process. Despite this effort, I found the upgrade process complex, confusing and stress inducing (after all, we're mucking with the [digital] family jewels here).

First, my impression is that the information about migration to Families is scattered all over the place. Indeed, I have often struggled to relocate a particularly useful page (was it in knowledgebase, a particular forum topic, a page on the website?). Second, I think the actual process could be made much more streamlined. As an example, at some point during the process of creating a Families account, a popup asks me "Add this account to 1Password" Why is it asking me this? What happens if I say Add Account vs Cancel? There must be a reason I'm being asked, but I didn't (and still don't) know why or the consequences of answering either way. I added the account, but what would have happened if I didn't? Why am I being offered this option? Quite disconcerting.

Second, it seems clear that 1Password 7 is required for a Families account, so why not embed an automatic upgrade rather than making the user (whose already declared his/her intent to move to 1PW Families and thus 7) manually download and install?

Third, when the upgrade on my Mac was complete, I discovered that all items from my primary (standalone) vault were moved to the new Private vault and the Shared vault was empty. Hmm. I wanted most of my existing items in the shared vault - now I have to move the majority of items, rather than just a few. Why not have an introductory dialog that asks all the relevant questions (with clarifying explanations of course)? The user could then select the desired options, and the upgrade/migration process now could run pretty much automatically. I could see a question "Where do you want your existing items moved to: [Private vault?] [Shared vault?]

Fourth, I thought that as part of the move to Families I would have to replace the existing 1PW app on my IOS devices with a new 1PW7 version that I'd use to log into my new account. But silly me - I spent several minutes in the app store fruitlessly searching for a 1PW 7 option until I discovered that I just log into the existing app (using my old master pw) and "add account" using the QR code in the Emergency Kit to easily connect up. And it seems a bit bizarre that as long as I leave the old standalone "primary" vault on my device, I log into the 1PW app using my old master password (I change it/beefed it up just before the upgrade on my Mac). I understand once I delete the primary vault I then use my new master password (but I haven't as yet verified this).

Fifth, is 1PW X a replacement for 1PW mini? If not, why pick it over mini? And why when I installed it did Mozilla (Firefox) shout out "Woah - we recommend not installing this extension" (or words to that effect). Can/should I go back to 1PW mini? VERY disconcerting.

1Password is a great product, and the support engineers are super helpful, but the move from 1PW standalone to Families leaves much to be desired IMO.

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1Password Version: 7.4.3
Extension Version: X
OS Version: 10.13.6
Sync Type: ?

ag_ana

Hi @marklme!

I have a question I probably should have asked before moving to Families from 1PW 6: Can I keep my old primary vault for "a while" (during the 30 day free trial or until everything and all family members are doing OK)? I want to preserve the option of reverting to the old standalone vault in case I stumble on some "gotcha" with Families (which I don't expect).

You certainly can. Just make sure you don't keep using your old Primary vault to save your new items in the meantime, or you risk storing data outside of your 1Password Families account.

First, my impression is that the information about migration to Families is scattered all over the place. Indeed, I have often struggled to relocate a particularly useful page (was it in knowledgebase, a particular forum topic, a page on the website?).

All of our tutorials are on our support website:

Welcome to 1Password Support

The forum is an additional source of help, in case you did not find something on the support website, or if you want to discuss something with us or with other users.

Second, I think the actual process could be made much more streamlined. As an example, at some point during the process of creating a Families account, a popup asks me "Add this account to 1Password" Why is it asking me this?

It's asking you this because, at that point, you are only using 1Password Families in the browser. The popup is asking you if you want to add your 1Password Families account to the 1Password app.

What happens if I say Add Account vs Cancel?

If you select Add Account, your 1Password Families account is added to the 1Password app. If you select Cancel, you will have to add your 1Password Families account to the 1Password app manually later.

There must be a reason I'm being asked, but I didn't (and still don't) know why or the consequences of answering either way. I added the account, but what would have happened if I didn't? Why am I being offered this option? Quite disconcerting.

If you don't add the 1Password account to your 1Password app, you will not see your Families vaults. Everything you save would not be saved in your Families account, because your 1Password app would not know about its existence if you don't add the account there.

It's like reading your email: you can do it just in the browser, but if you want to do that in an email app, you need to tell the app that the account exists, by logging in to your email account in the email app.

Second, it seems clear that 1Password 7 is required for a Families account, so why not embed an automatic upgrade rather than making the user (whose already declared his/her intent to move to 1PW Families and thus 7) manually download and install?

1Password 7 is not required for 1Password Families. The old 1Password 6 also supports Families accounts.

We don't do automatic upgrades from 1Password 6 to 1Password 7 because some users might be using older computers that do not support 1Password 7, but they still might want to use a 1Password Families account.

Third, when the upgrade on my Mac was complete, I discovered that all items from my primary (standalone) vault were moved to the new Private vault and the Shared vault was empty. Hmm. I wanted most of my existing items in the shared vault - now I have to move the majority of items, rather than just a few. Why not have an introductory dialog that asks all the relevant questions (with clarifying explanations of course)? The user could then select the desired options, and the upgrade/migration process now could run pretty much automatically. I could see a question "Where do you want your existing items moved to: [Private vault?] [Shared vault?]

I think we are trying to make the migration process as simple as possible. I think most users will want to transfer their information to the Private vault by default, so that is the default choice.

Fourth, I thought that as part of the move to Families I would have to replace the existing 1PW app on my IOS devices with a new 1PW7 version that I'd use to log into my new account. But silly me - I spent several minutes in the app store fruitlessly searching for a 1PW 7 option until I discovered that I just log into the existing app (using my old master pw) and "add account" using the QR code in the Emergency Kit to easily connect up.

And it seems a bit bizarre that as long as I leave the old standalone "primary" vault on my device, I log into the 1PW app using my old master password (I change it/beefed it up just before the upgrade on my Mac). I understand once I delete the primary vault I then use my new master password (but I haven't as yet verified this).

The way 1Password unlocks is:

• If a Primary vault exists, then it unlocks using the Master Password for that vault, regardless of what, if any, memberships are signed in
• If a single 1Password membership is signed in, then it unlocks using the Master Password for that membership account
• If multiple memberships are signed in, then it unlocks using the Master Password of the first added membership

These are each exclusive scenarios. For example, if multiple memberships are signed in, you cannot unlock 1Password using the Master Password of the second account that was added.

If you are using a 1Password membership we generally recommend removing the Primary vault.

Fifth, is 1PW X a replacement for 1PW mini?

No, it's a replacement for the browser extension.

If not, why pick it over mini?

1Password X is our latest extension, and its biggest advantage is that it does not require the desktop app to be installed (so it allows you to use 1Password even on work computers where you are not allowed to install apps, or on Linux computers). In addition to this, you can find a list of 1Password X features here:

1Password X

But it's still a matter of personal preference: you can use the extension you like the most :)

And why when I installed it did Mozilla (Firefox) shout out "Woah - we recommend not installing this extension" (or words to that effect). Can/should I go back to 1PW mini? VERY disconcerting.

Can you let us know exactly what the message said?

marklme

Sorry for the poor formatting of this response - I don't know how you format quotes from prior posts as nicely as you did.

@ag_ana:
"1Password 7 is not required for 1Password Families. The old 1Password 6 also supports Families accounts.

We don't do automatic upgrades from 1Password 6 to 1Password 7 because some users might be using older computers that do not support 1Password 7, but they still might want to use a 1Password Families account."

me:
I direct your attention to https://support.1password.com/migrate-1password-account/#set-up-your-other-devices where, right under "Sign in and migrate your data" there's an an alert box with a red, triangled exclamation point labeled "IMPORTANT" that directs the reader to upgrade from 1PW 6 to 1PW 7. Sure reads to me like if I don't upgrade bad things will happen. There's nothing here that hints I can stay at 1PW 6 if I need/want to.

@ag_ana:
"I think we are trying to make the migration process as simple as possible. I think most users will want to transfer their information to the Private vault by default, so that is the default choice."

me:
I beg to differ; my scenario seems all too common. Tech savvy spouse understands value of 1PW, is a long term user and decides to bring not-so-tech-savvy spouse into the fold by upgrading to Families. Most entries in vault are for shared resources like bank accounts, streaming services, online shopping, etc. I still maintain it would have been nice to have a choice as to which vault the items went into, rather than having Agilebits decide for me (in my case, erroneously).

@ag_ana:
"Can you let us know exactly what the message said?"

me:
Simply click the link "Get 1Password X for Firefox" on your 1Password X support page. You're taken to the Firefox Browser Add-Ins page for Extensions. Below the info for 1Password X is an alert box declaring this is not a Recommended Extension. Drilling down by clicking "Learn More" explains that Mozilla has not vetted this extension. This seems like an oversight for a company so attuned to security. Why hasn't Agilebits asked Mozilla to vet 1PW X?

Lastly, I'm now confused over the difference between 1PW mini and 1PW X. Can you explain? Do I use one or the other or can I use both? Do they fill the same role? How do I tell which I'm using? What are the pros/cons of using one over the other?

Thanks.

Ben

Sorry for the poor formatting of this response - I don't know how you format quotes from prior posts as nicely as you did.

No worries. The paragraph icon can help with that:

There's nothing here that hints I can stay at 1PW 6 if I need/want to.

There are important upgrades that have been made to the migration process that are only available in 1Password 7, and by not upgrading you do lose out on those upgrades. That doesn't mean it is impossible to continue using 1Password 6, but certainly the better course of action if at all possible would be to upgrade.

We can't recommend using an older version. 1Password 6 has been retired and is no longer being updated. As a security focused company we'd always recommend running the latest versions of all of your software, but especially your operating system, web browser(s), and 1Password. If you opt to revert to an earlier version that is your prerogative, but it isn't something we can recommend. Using version 6 should be considered a temporary measure. As things continue to evolve around the now retired v6 it will be less and less practical to continue using it. For example, Safari 13 uses an all new extension framework, and as such will not work with v6.

I still maintain it would have been nice to have a choice as to which vault the items went into

Thank you for your thoughts about the migration process. Perhaps that use case is something we can better account for as we continue to iterate on the process.

Lastly, I'm now confused over the difference between 1PW mini and 1PW X. Can you explain?

We currently offer two browser extensions: 1Password X and 1Password (desktop app required). They serve the same general purpose: saving data from websites into 1Password, and filling that data back into those websites. Originally 1Password X was designed for users who could not install the 1Password desktop applications, but could install browser extensions. It has grown in scope since then, and may ultimately replace the "desktop app required" extension. Time will tell. Right now we offer both. I'd recommend picking one or the other. Having both installed may cause conflicts. At the moment, if you want the browser extension to lock and unlock with the desktop application the desktop app required extension is required.

Why hasn't Agilebits asked Mozilla to vet 1PW X?

I'll have to check with our extensions team to see if we have or not, and if we have what their response was on that. :+1:

Ben