Remove Primary Vault? (and 2 other questions)

Architect

I am a 1Password user and fan since version 2. Recently, I have been using 1Password 6 standalone version for Mac (purchased from AgileBits), syncing via Dropbox. Last week, I purchased a Family Account subscription.

Following instructions, I activated my account, then downloaded and installed 1Password version 7 on my Mac. After installation, (but before I signed into my 1Password account for the first time) I received notification that there was a problem syncing to Dropbox, and I saw in preferences that the sync option was set to "none" rather than to "Dropbox". When I chose "sync to Dropbox" a notification alerted me that it would add the items from Dropbox to the items in the 1Password 7 app (or so I thought this was what it was telling me), but since all of the items were already in the 1Password 7 app, and fearing duplicates, I left the sync set to "none". My 1st question is -- was this the right choice?

Question 2 -- Following instructions, I then signed into my 1Password account in Safari, and added my new account to the app, copying all existing data to the new account. All looked good, but the last step in your instructions is this: "Click Remove Vault. Now that everything has been safely copied to your new account, you should remove your old vault, so you don’t have duplicates of everything." The thing is, I was never presented with the option to "Remove Vault." Was this done for me automatically? Both my online account and my desktop app appear to have the same number of items (somewhat more than in version 6) and I do not see any duplicates so far. What's going on here? Do I still need to remove the original Primary Vault? (I only had one vault in version 6.) How can I tell if the old Primary vault is still there? And is it a problem if it is still there?

By the way, the synced vault in Dropbox (1Password.opvault) is still there, and I assume my other devices are still using it. (I have not migrated the other devices to the account yet.) Can this be left in place after migrating the other devices to the account, or is there a good reason to delete it?

Question 3 -- Now that my desktop app is using the online account, there is no longer any "sync" tab in preferences. I found this disconcerting at first, but now I suspect that it is by design. Am I correct?

Bottom line is, I am unsure about the migration process, and feel that the above issues may require fixing before I migrate my other devices to the online account. Otherwise, perhaps you will assure me that I have done everything correctly?

Many thanks for your help.

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1Password Version: 7.4.3
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: macOS 10.14.6
Sync Type: 1PW Account (formerly Dropbox)
Referrer: forum-search:Remove Primary Vault?

ag_ana

Hi @Architect!

My 1st question is -- was this the right choice?

If all your information is visible on 1Password.com in a browser, then that means that your migration process completed successfully, so you did the right thing :)

Do I still need to remove the original Primary Vault?

Yes, after moving your data to 1Password.com, we recommend removing the Primary vault, since you don't need it anymore (you will use the vaults on 1Password.com after the migration).

How can I tell if the old Primary vault is still there?

When you open the 1Password app, do you see the Primary vault in there?

By the way, the synced vault in Dropbox (1Password.opvault) is still there, and I assume my other devices are still using it. (I have not migrated the other devices to the account yet.) Can this be left in place after migrating the other devices to the account, or is there a good reason to delete it?

You could keep it around for a little bit for backup purposes, but once you moved everything to 1Password.com, you will not use it anymore.

Question 3 -- Now that my desktop app is using the online account, there is no longer any "sync" tab in preferences. I found this disconcerting at first, but now I suspect that it is by design. Am I correct?

That's correct, this is by design. Your data syncs automatically via 1Password.com, you don't have to configure anything related to sync, so we hide that tab :)

Architect

Regarding your response to Question 2 --

When I open the 1Password app, I do not see the Primary vault in there. Does this mean that it was removed automatically when I migrated to the 1Password account? As I say, I was not presented with the option to "Remove Primary Vault" at the end of my migration to the account. This is what caused me slight panic. I know it is highly recommended to remove the Primary vault, and it was my intention to do so, having read here in the forum about the problems caused by not doing so.

By the way, I checked the "Application Support" folder in my Home Library (on Mac) and I can see that the "1Password 4" folder is still there, containing all the data prior to my migration to the account. Should this folder with its data still be there? Also, I do not see any new 1Password folder within "Application Support." Is the local cache for the account data stored somewhere else, or does it still use the data located in the "1Password 4" folder?

This leads me to a semantic question -- When you say "Remove Primary Vault," does this mean that it should be removed as a vault within the app so the app no longer sees it (so there would not be a Personal vault as well as a Primary vault, leading to duplicate entries)? Or does "Remove Primary Vault" mean it should literally be deleted from its location on the Mac, so it does not exist anywhere? In trying to find an answer to this on the forum, it seems that "removed" and "deleted" are sometimes used interchangeably, leading to my confusion.

Architect

Or maybe (just speculating here)...

Is it possible that my Primary vault was not removed because I have not yet migrated my iOS device to the 1Password account? The device would still be using the old Primary vault? (Although I believe the device would be getting its data from the synced vault on Dropbox.) Once I migrate the iOS device to the new account, will there be another opportunity to remove the Primary vault?

I wish there was a white paper that would attempt to explain all this for those who want to take the deep dive. I want to understand, so please clarify as much as possible.

Ben

When I open the 1Password app, I do not see the Primary vault in there. Does this mean that it was removed automatically when I migrated to the 1Password account? As I say, I was not presented with the option to "Remove Primary Vault" at the end of my migration to the account. This is what caused me slight panic. I know it is highly recommended to remove the Primary vault, and it was my intention to do so, having read here in the forum about the problems caused by not doing so.

It sounds that way, yes. If there are no migration errors or warnings then the Primary vault may be removed automatically.

By the way, I checked the "Application Support" folder in my Home Library (on Mac) and I can see that the "1Password 4" folder is still there, containing all the data prior to my migration to the account. Should this folder with its data still be there? Also, I do not see any new 1Password folder within "Application Support." Is the local cache for the account data stored somewhere else, or does it still use the data located in the "1Password 4" folder?

We generally don't recommend manually modifying the files that 1Password stores, but in this case the 1Password 4 folder is extraneous. While it isn't likely to be consuming a significant amount of disk space if you'd be more comfortable you can remove it.

This leads me to a semantic question -- When you say "Remove Primary Vault," does this mean that it should be removed as a vault within the app so the app no longer sees it (so there would not be a Personal vault as well as a Primary vault, leading to duplicate entries)? Or does "Remove Primary Vault" mean it should literally be deleted from its location on the Mac, so it does not exist anywhere? In trying to find an answer to this on the forum, it seems that "removed" and "deleted" are sometimes used interchangeably, leading to my confusion

Yes - both, once you've migrated everything.

Is it possible that my Primary vault was not removed because I have not yet migrated my iOS device to the 1Password account? The device would still be using the old Primary vault? (Although I believe the device would be getting its data from the synced vault on Dropbox.) Once I migrate the iOS device to the new account, will there be another opportunity to remove the Primary vault?

In that case the iOS device will use the migration receipt information in the Primary vault to handle the migration. Once migrated it will update that receipt and then remove the Primary vault from the app. Once this has been done on all of your devices you can delete the sync file (OPVault / Agile Keychain).

I wish there was a white paper that would attempt to explain all this for those who want to take the deep dive. I want to understand, so please clarify as much as possible.

Thanks for the suggestion. As we're now at a point where the majority of customers have never used 1Password standalone it may be counter-productive to spend additional time thoroughly documenting it, but I can certainly pass the feedback along.

Ben

Architect

Hi, Ben.

Thanks for the very helpful responses. What would cement my understanding (maybe ;) ) is to know where the old Primary Vault is/was (for the standalone app).

In answer to my first question, you said, "If there are no migration errors or warnings then the Primary vault may be removed automatically." This would indeed explain why I wasn't asked to delete it myself after the migration process. But when I asked about the data still located in the "1Password 4" folder in Application Support, you said, "While it isn't likely to be consuming a significant amount of disk space if you'd be more comfortable you can remove it." So, if this data was the Primary vault, it looks like it was not removed (or deleted, as the case may be).

What confuses me is, if the data still located in the "1Password 4" folder actually is the old Primary Vault, then that means it was not deleted/removed? Or was the Primary Vault actually located somewhere else, and actually was deleted/removed? And, if the Primary Vault was somewhere else, is the data in "1Password 4" redundant, or a cache, or what, exactly?

Which leads me back to the semantic question -- Does "removed" mean merely that the link from the 1Password app to the Primary Vault is unlinked so that the app no longer sees the vault? Does "deleted" mean the same thing, or does it mean that the Primary Vault is actually deleted from the computer or device entirely so it no longer exists anywhere? If you will, please clarify the meanings of these 2 terms as they relate to the 1Password (standalone) application.

Thanks again.

Ben

Thanks for the very helpful responses.

You're very welcome. Happy to help. :)

What would cement my understanding (maybe ;) ) is to know where the old Primary Vault is/was (for the standalone app).

So, there are actually two (or three) places, in your case:

1. In a SQLite database in 1Password 6's datastore, which was likely also copied to 1Password 7's datastore
2. In an Agile Keychain or OPVault sync file in Dropbox

1Password 7's SQLite file (we often refer to this as the "local cache") would've been cleared of the Primary vault, but it would still exist in 1Password 6's files as well as in Dropbox.

So, if this data was the Primary vault, it looks like it was not removed (or deleted, as the case may be).

Correct; we don't remove 1Password 6's data when upgrading to 1Password 7 so that there is the possibility (though not recommended) to revert. That doesn't have any bearing on 1Password 7's functionality though. They operate from separate datastores.

Which leads me back to the semantic question -- Does "removed" mean merely that the link from the 1Password app to the Primary Vault is unlinked so that the app no longer sees the vault?

Right. The migration process removes the Primary vault from the app, but doesn't delete any associated sync files. Does that make sense? Once you're sure the migration has completed successfully you can certainly delete the sync files. You could also delete 1Password 6's data if you're sure you're not going back.

Ben

Architect

Thank you. All very clear answers.
And, if you can believe it, I have no more questions (at least, not at this time). :)

Ben

No problem at all @Architect. If there is anything else we can do, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Ben