Using Multiple Vaults

frog

I was really excited about the multiple vaults feature of 1Password 4. I've recently been finding it harder and harder to deal with some shared corporate account info and was looking at alternatives that support multiple vaults, so the 1Pv4 release was a pleasant surprise, and an instant purchase.

But the implementation is really not as slick as I'd come to expect from Agile.

I want to have a few vaults with info in each:

• primary/personal vault (everything that's not shared)
• family (shared with my wife)
• work (shared with other staff)

While this certainly works, technically, its really quite awkward to use info from different vaults on a regular basis. Instead of just pressing cmd+\, I have to switch vaults manually each time. This involves a lot of switching through the day as I use some shared and some personal accounts at different points.

Furthermore, the switching doesn't seem possible via keyboard alone. I press cmd+\ and there doesn't seem to be any way to switch to one of my other vaults without using my mouse, click the vault icon, select the new vault from the drop-down, etc. Ok it's maybe 10 seconds, some might not find it a big deal, but my password is no longer just cmd+\, is it?

What I was really expecting from Agile, as soon as I saw multiple vault support, was when attempting to use a password (cmd+\), I'd be presented with a combined list of relevant login items from all (unlocked) vaults. Obviously there's a place for managing the passwords within each vault independently, but when you want to use them, it shouldn't matter what vault they're in. Kind of like the GTD ideology (projects vs contexts) I guess.

Obviously am looking forward to multiple vaults in 1Password for iOS too, to save the manual syncing between vaults, and make secure sharing of information a truly seamless experience, but I know that's already in the works.

EDIT: Ok my issue with different passwords for different vaults now seems to be behaving more like I'd expect; unlocking the primary vault does appear to unlock the others as I'd expected.

Rockyroad

Might be nice if the master user could see all entries across all vaults in a single unified view, then you'd never have to switch.

edifyyo

THIS. This was how I expected the feature to work before playing with it. Multiple vaults is a fantastic feature, but there should at least be an option to have a unified view of all of your vaults in 1Password Mini and the browser extensions.

oshloel

+1 big time! I earlier posted a thread on a "yours, mine & ours" family situation and suggested this same solution. Convincing my wife to switch vaults to find things is probably a non starter, and it's a real PITA to me when I use a personal login and then need shared credit card or other info.

sjk

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments on multiple vault usage. Something like a unified view and other inter-vault ideas are already planned or under consideration, like I mentioned in my reply to @oshloel's "yours, mine & ours" family situation post that he referred to. Multiple vault support was a relative latecomer during pre 4.0 MAS beta testing so it's still in early development. Feedback likes your helps us know which features you'd like to have. Thanks!

jdanish

Glad to hear the unified view is being considered - that will be the icing on the cake to really make this a great feature! Thanks!

sjk

If multiple vaults aren't the most popular new 1P4 feature they're surely a favorite for many folks (including me) and even more after iOS supports them.

odysseus

As noted, multiple vaults are extremely limited in their current implementation. Frankly, sharing should be an attribute available on a per-item basis, and at the very least, all items across vaults should be available at the same time.

frog

I'm ok with the idea of multiple vaults (rather than individually sharing); for me at least it makes sense to group things together for sharing.

But definitely expect access to all vaults at once. It's hard enough as it is to get family & friends to use a password manager, so any little inconvenience or confusion like "why do I have to switch vaults?" (or more likely "what's a vault?") makes it an uphill battle.

Very happy to hear there's plans for a unified view. I really want it to be absolutely transparent for the novices in my family.

Thomas

+1 for the unified view. That's really annoying. At least there should be a shortcut for switching vaults.

dfsutherland

+1000 for the unified view. Lack of this is one of the things that makes multiple vaults unusable in my family. The near-total lack of documentation for Vaults (and of their current limitations!) just added to the pain. I really shouldn't have to search the forums to find out how to use an important new feature!

roustem

We are definitely looking for more feedback on how to make it better.

I understand where you are coming from when you want to show items from all vaults at the same time. However, there are also cases when you would not want it or when it will be confusing.

HalfBekend

I agree with roustem that the not always items from all vaults should be shown are used for fill in. So that would require a switch per vault in the unified view.

But talking about priorities:
For now I copy the items in a shared vault to the primary vault. When the pwd in the primary vault doesn't work, I will update the primary vault from the shared vault.
Why? I need access with my iPhone and Windows laptop as well.
I hope the updates for non-OSX platforms are coming really soon.

Megan

Hi @HalfBekend,

We are hoping to update non-OSX platforms soon ... but I can't provide any further details at this point. We know that everyone is excited about the possibilities of vaults, but we want to make sure that it gets done right. :)

nokin50

This may be a bit contrary to what others are requesting. I would very much like to have a separate login for each vault (at least as an option). I would prefer that the master Password did not automatically unlock all vaults. I realize that many (most) people would prefer the opposite, so that is why I think it could be an optional preference for each "secondary" vault. I would like some people have access to some passwords on my computer, but not all of the passwords.

David

odysseus

Does it make sense that the contents of shared vaults would be automatically displayed along with the contents of one's default or main vault? And for heaven's sake, please add the ability to move items between vaults ASAP and to make it possible for operations listed under the "share" icon to apply to more than one selected item? (it currently doesn't work for copying to another vault).

bpaluzzi

Another question about multiple vaults -- if I copy a login two a second vault using the "item->share->(second vault name)", should the items in the primary vault and the secondary vault stay synced?

jfelchner

@sjk @roustem my suggestions are as follows:

• Keyboard shortcuts (especially in 1PW mini) to switch between vaults/"all" vaults
• Option to select which vaults are searched in 1PW mini (searching across all vaults would be problematic)
• Switching between vaults should not cause 1PW mini to close (I'm opening up a separate issue for this because in my mind it's a bug)
• When searching across multiple vaults, there needs to be an indication of which vault the login is in (eg displaying the vault image next to it, or changing the icon that currently displays the current vault and instead make it change to show the vault of the current item), otherwise it's no better than having all items in a single vault

Hope this helps!

sjk

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your suggestions and other feedback about multiple vaults! We are listening and considering even if not individually acknowledging every post in this and related topics.

@nokin50: It's possible to unlock a secondary vault (currently one at a time) independently of the primary vault by selecting it from Switch to Vault under the main application menu before unlocking the primary vault.

bpaluzzi

What about sharing between multiple vaults? Should items shared between vaults stay in sync?

Megan

Hi @bpaluzzi,

Right now items do not stay in sync between multiple vaults, so if you do want to keep the same item in both vaults, you will need to update the item manually if you change the details in one vault.

bpaluzzi

Hi @megan - thanks for the response. Is syncing between shared vaults something that is planned?

Trying not to sound like a jerk / sarcastic when I ask this, but here goes :-) What is the purpose of sharing vaults as it's currently built? If the item doesn't stay in sync, wouldn't "move to vault" (where the login is removed from the original vault) be preferable to "share between vaults" (where the login still remains in the original vault, but the two versions don't stay in sync)

Thanks!

Megan

Hi @bpaluzzi,

Thanks for the question! We have received a lot of feedback about "sharing" items between vaults and are looking into ways of making this more clear in the future.

Multiple vaults have can have many different purposes, depending on your needs. It is important to note that the syncing benefit really comes into play when sharing an entire vault, rather than a single login.

• Vaults provide a way for you to keep your work life separate from your personal life: Keep your work database locked and out of the way when you're browsing at home, and set separate sync settings to ensure your work vault stays synced with your computer at work without having the clutter of your personal Logins.
• Vaults also help you securely share some of your information without having to share your entire database. If you need to share those work Logins with a co-worker or client (or household Logins with a partner or family member), you can share the entire vault and keep all the information in sync, without having to share your personal data as well.

I'm sure you can think of plenty of other scenarios where this could be useful. Also, as has been said above, this is really only the start of what we'd like to do with vaults - I'm quite excited for the future prospects of this feature! :)

bpaluzzi

Hi @megan - oh I definitely see the point of sharing vaults. My question is specifically "why do you allow 'sharing' (of single logins / entries) between vaults if it's not really sharing?"

Megan

@bpaluzzi,

Oops, my apologies for misunderstanding! Guess I got a bit too excited there and wandered off-topic. ;)

We called it sharing because it includes options such as Email and iMessage which would allow you to share the Login item with another person. (A perfect example is sharing your personal Wi-Fi network password with a visiting friend.) As I mentioned previously though, the majority of user feedback we've heard is similar to yours, and we are looking for a way to clarify this in the future.

bpaluzzi

@megan cheers, thanks for that! figured it was probably an issue with consistency. glad to hear that it might be addressed in the future -- would love to be able to share work-related logins between my primary vault and "work vault", then share that entire work vault with other members of my team. Although, to be honest, one of the fixes above (making all unlocked vaults available in the browser / mini 1password dropdowns) would work, too -- then I could simply move all my work logins into the work vault, and not need to keep a copy in the primary vault as well.

Thanks again!

Megan

Hi @bpaluzzi,

I'm glad that answered your question :) Keep the feedback coming, and we'll keep the developers working to make vaults even more awesome and useful.

benfdc

@Megan—

I think it would be clearer if you used the File > Export… menu item for copying entries from one vault to another. Exporting does not carry a connotation of persistent connection.

1Password 3 used to have a number of secure export options (Palm/Trēo and Encrypted Web Page) that were dropped over time, partly because they weren’t as secure as users might want. I view secondary vaults as the secure export feature that I have been pressing for for a very long time.

quickreference

Vaults also help you securely share some of your information without having to share your entire database...you can share the entire vault and keep all the information in sync, without having to share your personal data as well.

That's great in theory; however, in practice, I have yet to see this work. I created a vault for my wife and I to share; separate from my business vault. Then, I tried two methods as depicted in the help topics; neither of which worked:

NOTE: I'm on a mac, wife is on windows.

1. Share > Email:
   she receives a link, non-clickable, so pasted into web browser, it takes her to google.com. If I send it to myself, it is also non-clickable; however, pasting into safari does open 1password and pull in the items.

2. Export / Import..., then zip and email:
   she receives the file, downloads, then imports; however, only 1 of the 2 items are imported and the 1 imported item isn't even complete. Just a URL but no other info came through.

Maybe I purchased too soon. Is this not supposed to work x-platform?

To be honest, I bit on the upgrade because the marketing copy made it sound like this was a done deal -- it just works. Unfortunately, I feel like it was a hasty purchase and I've got a bit of buyers remorse. Not a good feeling.

MikeT

Hi @quickreference.

I'm not sure what help topic you found but that's not how vault sharing works. Read this article to see it how works. You need to enable the vault to sync via Dropbox to your wife and your wife can open the vault via the File Menu > Open 1Password Data on Windows and point it to the (vaultname.agilekeychain) folder.

With that, you guys can make changes and the changes will show up on both sides in that specific vault.

1Password for Windows doesn't support multiple vaults yet, that's coming in 1Password 4 for Windows. However, while the main 1Password for Windows app can switch between different data files, that is as long as the browser extensions aren't being used. Once your wife is done with the specific vault, she need to open her own vault before she can use her browser extensions.

jfelchner

@MikeT does it not make sense to have each vault be a separate agilekeychain file? That way we can have each in a different location (say for example I can put a vault I want shared in another Dropbox folder which is shared amongst multiple people.