Why the Import of Accounts/FTPs into Logins in 1Password 4
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@MikeT By the way, why are you guys storing/importing FTP Servers as Logins (even seen above in your screenshot)? There's a "Server" category. What's that for, if not FTPs, SSH/Telnet servers, etc? Either use the Servers category consistently or get rid of it. ;) I'd say that anything that classifies as a Server should be stored as one, and that Logins should only be used for website passwords and generic passwords.
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Hi @Uno_Lavoz,
In 1Password 3, FTP/IM/etc items existed as item types within the Accounts categories. In 1Password 4, we've imported them as Logins because there were confusion on what's the difference between them. So, we simplified it by getting rid of Accounts and now, Logins along with the custom fields support can be used for anything that have a username/password without the requirement of the website field.
One could say that Servers could go into Logins as well but we're not going to do that. We are looking into a different way to handle different types of Logins in the future to be able to tell them apart.
I'm glad you like the Option key idea, that'd be cool to do. I updated the request with this idea.
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@MikeT I'm glad you like that I like the option key idea that you like, wait what... Anyway, as for the category conundrum: That's the awesomeness (and danger) when you invent an infinitely flexible database that can add any number of custom fields and sections to any item. It becomes tough to say where to put things - as discrete item categories, or as a generic item with extra fields.
Couldn't you do something where FTP Servers are stored as Server with a custom field for a clickable URL, if that's the crux of it? It messes with my mind to see a blatant file-server not stored as a server. FTP servers are rare these days and are devoted to storing files, and I don't think the fact that they can be visited via ftp:// qualifies them as Logins (since they are not websites), when there is a Servers category. Logins is clearly for websites + for generic non-website logins that don't fit anywhere else, like "The PIN code for my cellphone." The FTP Server would be most at home under Servers. Am I crazy for thinking that? :D
Otherwise you might as well get rid of Servers too, and store all SFTP/Telnet-servers as Logins with custom fields to describe the Provider, etc.
Anyway, I haven't looked at your data format, but I suspect that all items are internally stored as a single data-type that can hold any number of data-fields, and that they only belong to different categories thanks to a flag that says "this was added as a Server," etc, and that the "create new item of category [Server]" really just spawns such a generic item that's simply tagged as "Server" and with a few pre-suggested fields that fit servers. That's awesome if that's the case. But such a flexible design is a bit too flexible from the user-side and can get muddy fast unless you delineate where things belong. It therefore benefits from stricter categorization so that there is a consistent experience. Websites under Logins. Servers under Servers. Credit Cards under Credit Cards, etc.
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Hi @Uno_Lavoz,
I've split the posts into a separate topic since we were getting off topic there.
We went back and forth on this a lot internally and also feedback from our beta users. There is such a thing as too much flexibility and sometime, it makes it difficult to switch to a better solution in the future. For now, we're just keeping it consistent as is right now and don't plan to make big changes toward this for a while.
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@MikeT I felt bad for carrying on the discussion in the original topic since it was clearly off-topic. Thanks for splitting it.
Anyway, it doesn't bother me that much. I think it is wrong to store FTP Servers as Logins instead of Servers, but there is nothing preventing me from storing my own FTP Servers as Servers.
This discussion only affects automatically imported FTP Logins from 1Password 3 going into 1Password 4, where they're added as Logins. Going forward from there, it's up to everyone whether they want to add their FTP Servers as Logins or the more logical Servers.
Which ironically is indeed thanks to the flexibility that got us in the problem in the first place. :D
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Hi @Uno_Lavoz,
We didn't focus on FTPs, we simply moved almost all Accounts items into Logins, FTP was just one of the several categories. Account items included items like IM (which has website components like Skype, AOL, GoogleTalks), iTunes account (which gets imported with iCloud.com/Apple.com URLs), and so on. If we start moving them in different categories, I'd believe it'd make things more complicated for folks to find what they needed.
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Oh yeah, now I remember, they were all under the main category called "Accounts," but they were still all distinct types. I never thought of them all as being of the "Account items" type since they had distinct icons and distinct differences in what fields each provided.
I completely agree with (and like) the change where Logins and Accounts were merged. I can even sorta see the "hey, where is my FTP account?" confusion that you anticipated if someone went to look for it and didn't check under Servers.
Still doesn't mean FTP Servers logically belong under Logins, though. ;) But I understand and respect the decision to not confuse legacy users (although some legacy users are equally confused not to find it under Servers, apparently). Software design (especially upgrades) is always about tradeoffs and trying to make things easy to understand. It's trivial for me to re-save them as the Servers they are.
Gosh, I am boring myself with this discussion. :D Hope you're having a good day. Let's move on from this frippery. :D
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Thank you for the very thoughtful discussion @Uno_Lavoz. I enjoyed reading it even if you did bore yourself :)
I'm glad you link having Logins and Accounts merged. It was something that we originally liked in 1Password 3 but it became confusing over time. I regret causing confusion for existing customers who used a lot of Accounts but I find the new 1Password 4 approach much simpler and enjoy that.
You're certainly right that there are a lot of tradeoffs while designing upgrades. Thank you for your understanding.
Now, onto less frippery discussions! ;)
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@dteare Hehe thanks.
The merge of the two way-too-similar categories (Logins/Accounts) was the right decision. No doubt about it. Finally you can have truly "universal" accounts that hold several website URLs and work for other things as well. A good example is an AppleID which works in the App Store, iTunes store, and on several websites, all stored in one login!
There's always going to be friction when you change a paradigm in a piece of software, but this was the right choice. It was surprisingly easy to get used to. :x
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