Failing to see the point of 1Password

arnabdas

Hi,

I bought 1Password today itself, for both Mac OSX (from AgileBits Store) and iOS, spending upwards of $50 for both, after reading rave reviews on reputed blogs.

Now here's the thing. I'm failing to see the point of it all. Allow me to explain. Kindly bear with me.

My primary purpose is to use 1Password on iOS, i.e. on my iPad and iPhone. However it is pointless to not use it on a Mac once you're using it on iOS, especially since everything has to be in sync. So I had to buy that too.

I first set it up on a Mac and it was a breeze. I quite like the interface too. However my problem begins when I switch to iOS. The iPad app is okay I would say, just from the look and feel of it, even the browser feels decent, but the iPhone app is just pointless (I'm not trying to be rude). Why would anyone have to switch from Safari, which, even when I put aside the default browser argument, is just a better browser altogether? I fail to see the point of the developers in this case. I'm supposed to use the inbuilt browser in 1Password when it lacks basic features like search and bookmarking. Surely, that's a bit unfair on the user. Even when 1Password developers introduce these at a later point, I'm sure Apple with its army of developers will have moved to a different paradigm altogether. I know I CAN use Safari on iOS while using 1Password, but it just feels 'wrong', almost to the point of being unintuitive. I'm supposed to switch from the app itself and move to another and then log in and then search for the password and then copy it and then move back to Safari and then paste it. It's just way too many steps. Why can't I have a bookmarklet which let's me do the job without me having to leave the browser? Also, and I assume the 1Password team will be with me on this, using Safari to log in to a website defeats the whole purpose of using the app itself, exposing me to security issues. In a way, using a passcode for the iPhone and iPad and using iCloud Keychain along with it seems more convenient. Interestingly, even when registering for this particular forum on the 1Password browser itself on the iPad, just now, I had to manually add the login information including the web address (I had to actually type the web address) and 1Password wouldn't automatically detect the fields and ask me to save it, unlike Keychain, and add the information as a login. Surely, there is a better way of doing this.

I know I can get a refund for the iOS apps and OSX version, but I just want to be sure that I'm not using 1Password wrong, before doing that. The apps are so, so very famous, surely I'm at fault here. I hope I am. One would argue that 1Password stores secure notes etc, but even a basic notes app does that, with password protection too. And finally, if I'm not using the iOS apps, the OSX app becomes utterly pointless.

Thanks.

(I don't want to come across as being angry or rude, I'm just a bit disillusioned at the moment)

hawkmoth

The short answer to your long and thoughtful post is that Apple will not allow the installation of extensions in Mobile Safari, which makes it impossible for any developer to add the functions you seek. Many users, including me, wish it were otherwise.

thightower

Things have came a long way since the early days if iOS. From the rumor mills the xext version of OS X will be more like iOS (yes I have been reading the rumor mills :) ) , so maybe that will also mean extensions will be available. I can only wish just like @hawkmoth

khad

Thanks so much for taking the time to post your feedback, @arnabdas! As @hawkmoth mentioned, it simply isn't possible for apps to integrate with other apps on iOS. Each app is sandboxed and cannot access any of the other apps on your device. One thing we have done to make this easier is provide support for custom URL schemes in 1Password 4 for iOS. What this means in practice is that you can have a bookmarklet in Safari (or any other iOS browser of your choosing) that opens the page you are currently viewing right in 1Password for easy filling:

"Open in 1Password" bookmarklet for opening sites into 1Password's browser

Additionally, for non-browser use (i.e. logging in to other iOS apps), 1Password makes copying a password as easy as swiping across the Login item. 1Password will also automatically clear the clipboard for you.

Autosave in 1Browser is on the list as well.

One of the great features of 1Password is that everything is stored securely when you browse with 1Browser.

Please let me know if I missed a question that you asked. I'd be happy to provide more information.

arnabdas

Thanks @khad for the help.

Unfortunately to me, it seems like 1Password is a superbly designed app for iOS (and OSX) which is being wasted on Apple's platform because of the restrictions. I'm sure 1Browser will reach the point of perfection in time but in its present form I personally think it's kind of pointless for me to move to it from Safari, especially when Safari has been so incredibly well redesigned for iOS 7 with added functionality, like full screen browsing etc. Also, the fact is and again this is a limitation of iOS, my other apps like Messages, Mail etc. are completely insecure especially because they don't have password protection. My point being just having safe passwords when I have absolutely 'open' apps is kind of self defeating.

I didn't know what I was jumping into and so to experience it all I had to buy all the 1Password apps on iOS and OSX in order to see how they performed. I really don't think having to adjust my browsing and usage pattern on both iOS (mainly) and OSX is worth the outcome really, at least not at this point. I personally think, that it's just better and more intuitive to use iCloud Keychain with a device lock for specific devices. Which is a shame, because the 1Password apps on iOS and OSX are genuinely incredibly well thought out and exceptionally user friendly. And since it's all about integration, a less useful iOS app renders the otherwise exceptional OSX app useless as well.

I might have to make use of your 30 day refund guarantee for the OSX app, since it's bought from the AgileBits Store, but I will certainly leave with the hope that I'll return again, for good. I honestly hope Apple changes it's policies, not just because of us users but because of you guys, who are incredibly amazing developers creating robust and intuitive programs only to be limited severely by the restrictions imposed. I am a heavy spender when it comes to buying apps and software and I genuinely would like to support you guys, unfortunately the OSX app is just a little too expensive to be sitting idle. I hope you understand my situation.

Thanks again for the help.

Lesley O'Neil

Well, I love 1Password but don't use it for actually logging in; it is mainly a memory jogger for when my built-in password storage system (my 71-year-old brain!) fails me. ;)

I have dozens of memberships, apps, and software items and even use my iPad/phone copy for all that are associated with my Windows PC and laptop. There's more than one way to use it, and I'm likely not the only person going this route.

hawkmoth

I too am using it for far more than automatic logins. But I'd use it for that too, and I would really welcome integration with Mobile Safari.

arnabdas

Sorry, accidentally reposted.

arnabdas

I stand corrected. I was indeed using 1Password "wrong".

I had even been approved a refund for the iOS app but I went ahead and bought it again today, quite embarrassing myself.

Anyway, here's my take. I did some serious reading on the issue of compatibility with iOS of 1Password, and there's a solution. 1Password has been praised by so many people in the past, surely there had to be more to it than what I was seeing. The answer for me is to have passcode lock activated on my iPhone. It's very very annoying but can't be helped. So here's how I've set things up. I now have a passcode for the iPhone and iPad. I have turned off Keychain completely. I will continue to use Safari on iOS and use the remember password option on websites and not on Keychain. I will use a short unlock code for 1Password. So basically, even if anyone has access to the iPhone, they will have to go through the iPhone passcode and then the unlock code of 1Password (and the master password, if they fail to crack it at attempt 1). I will not use the 1Browser at all, except for my Bank logins. Finally, the fact is I am still using Mountain Lion and not Mavericks. I am unwilling to take the plunge since I'm sceptical of the promises Apple has made regarding speed improvements on older hardware. In any case, 1Password is currently the only way for me to sync passwords across my devices.

I stand corrected therefore regarding my assessment of 1Password and its utility.

A few suggestions, though and I'd be glad if @khad could chip in on this:

1. Multiple Vaults on iOS - no brainer really. I don't want my eBay login to be given the same protection as my bank account login.

2. Secure Notes - I have used it on the Mac version and I love it. However even after syncing them, I can't see the photos attached to secure notes on iOS. Also having a separate lock for Secure Notes may be a good idea.

And finally a request. I know I'm eligible for a 30 day refund anyway, but here's the problem. The version on the Mac AppStore is substantially cheaper than the version on your Agile Bits Store when I pay with Indian Rupee. It's a 550 Rupee savings on the 1Password app when bought from the Mac AppStore, which ironically is exactly how much the 1Password app on iOS costs. If I am allowed, I would like to get a refund on the 1Password app on OSX and then buy it via the AppStore. That way I'll have access to the iCloud sync as well. Kindly consider the situation. I want to be a long term user of the app, please help me out.

Thanks again for the helpful posts.

hawkmoth

Both of your requests (1 & 2) above are promised for a future update of the iOS application. I haven't searched for the relevant posts here on the forum, but I know they are here.

khad

So sorry I don't have time to say more. It's a super busy day today. You've taken so much time to write your own posts @arnabdas, and I hope the brevity of my own post is no indication of the appreciation we have for you taking the time to write yours.

@hawkmoth is correct. Support for multiple vaults is not available on iOS at this time, but it is definitely on our list for the future. As with all things we don't normally provide a time frame or give a release date as there as simply too many factors at play (some of them are even beyond our control). It’s a substantial change that needs a lot of testing, so we do ask for your patience.

Attachments should be supported in Secure Notes. Can you confirm that the syncing is complete?

We can't help with financial matters on the forum, but if you email us we'll certainly see how we can best accommodate you. If you're still having trouble with attachments, please also include that in your email as well as a link to this thread so we can "connect the dots" when we see your message in our inbox.

support@ agilebits .com

Thanks!

arnabdas

@khad thank you for your time. I've mailed you guys already. Although I didn't mention about the sync issue, it's a minor problem. I'm sure I can resolve it in the future with your help. In any case I'm sticking with 1Password both on iOS and OSX. It's too good a software created by too awesome and incredibly friendly developers to not be supported.

Thanks again.

khad

Thank you for your incredibly kind words and support. I just replied to your email. :)

arnabdas

@khad thanks for that. Unfortunately I am unable to view that mail you sent me because gmail is giving me the "This message has no content" error whenever I open that particular mail, not sure if it's the formatting. If I may, if you have a copy of that mail, could you please re send/forward it to my address so that I may take a look? That would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks again.

khad

I just resent it via our support system as well as via PM. I hope one of them reaches you. If not, please let me know. :)

arnabdas

@khad Thank you so very much for that. I read the email, and again, thank you for being so cooperative.

A few clarifications would actually be great especially when I'm installing a new version on my Mac now. Please help me out with these.

1. I'm assuming that I'll have to remove the current AgileBits Store version of 1Password on my Mac prior to installation of the Mac App Store version. So will a simple moving the application to the trash do the trick, or do I have to follow extra steps to remove remnants of data lying on my Mac?

2. Do I have to remove all my passwords and software licenses from the application on the Mac prior to this removal of the AgileBits version of 1Password?

3. Once I install the AppStore version, I will have no passwords within it, since I've only been using WiFi sync so far and not cloud sync. So, since my iPhone and iPad both have all the data, can I sync them to the 'empty' Mac AppStore version (I hope this will not result in an emptying of the iPad/iPhone password database since the new app is empty and syncing occurs both ways)?

Thanks.

khad

1. Just drag the old app to the trash. You don't want to remove the data since the new app wouldn't be able to access it then. :)
2. No. Unless you want to start all over again with a new data file. That can be done at any time, though, so you don't need to do it when making the switch.
3. Oh. I thought you had data in 1Password for Mac already. If you do, then it will be detected (or you may need to direct 1Password to its location on your Mac). If not, then syncing from your iOS device(s) will populate 1Password for Mac. Syncing is always a merge, so the x number of items on your iOS device(s) will be added to the y Logins on your Mac and all your 1Password instances will then have all the items (x+y=z). Even if y is zero, you still end up with at least z = x items. Non-algebraically: the data will sync into the empty data file on your Mac. ;)

arnabdas

So the Mac AppStore version will auto detect the current passwords from the AgileBits version of the application. Sweet!

Thanks for the clarification on syncing. That's a very reassuring thought.

So, first I remove the current version. Then install the new one from the Mac AppStore and I'm back to using the Mac app just the way I was using it previously. Sounds simple enough.

Thanks so very much again.

khad

It certainly should, but because it is a sandboxed application you may need to manually tell it where to find the data file. (The process is similar to but not identical to the one on that support page.) The default path for your data file if you did not move it and were not using Dropbox to sync would be:

~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4

If you run into any trouble, please let us know.

arnabdas

Just another query. I have setup the new Mac AppStore version. However the certificate from the AgileBits store still resides in the Software Licenses area. Is it safe to remove that? Do I need license registration for the Mac AppStore version?

Thanks.

Megan

Hi @arnabdas,

All purchases in the Mac App Store are tied to the AppleID that you made the original purchase with. That is Apple's version of the software license. If you wish to remove your AgileBits license from the software license category it is completely safe to do so. (Another option might be to put it in an 'Archive' vault so it's out of your way but still around if you need it for whatever reason in the future.)

arnabdas

@Megan that's awesome! Thanks.