Unhappy with Sync Service and Conflict Handling [moved to email]

Yogie

Hi,

I have to sync multiple accounts and this is how I do it....

We have two iMac's and a MacBook, an iPad and two iPhones to sync.

Sync between the OS X devices is done via a shared folder. And one iOS device out of each separate Apple ID uses the WLAN sync between OS X and iOS. Each second iOS device out of the same Apple ID that syncs with OS X just uses the iCloud sync.

We do always have conflicts to solve. And I don't understand why! Because from my point of view newer passwords and changes should overrule older ones but this is not the case. Anytime newer settings are send to the conflict section instead of sending older settings to the conflict section.

But maybe I'm expecting to much or simply doing it wrong?

I also would love to see a setting on this how to solve a conflict like iOS overwrites OS X or vice versa or newer setting overwrites older setting etc.

Cheers
Yogie

sjk

Hi @Yogie,

I'm sorry you're having trouble with how conflicts are being handled in your current 1Password syncing configuration. I have a few questions to help us better understand that configuration:

• Which versions of 1Password are you running on your Macs and iOS devices?
• Which Macs have 1Password configured to use folder syncing, is it the Primary or a secondary vault, and where is the shared folder for it located?
• Which Macs and iOS devices are using iCloud sync?
• Which iOS devices are Wi-Fi syncing with which Macs?
• Which Apple ID is being used on each Mac and iOS device? Naming them generic "Apple ID 1", "Apple ID 2" is fine.

Also, do you have a specific example of what you change where that results in items having Conflicts section fields? And are those items being synced, with Conflicts, between all your systems/devices?

Thanks in advance for the answers before we move on to suggestions for how to resolve this.

Yogie

Hi @sjk,

here is what we have and use.

iMac 1 - 1Password Version 4.1.2 (412009) - Sync's with a public folder on a NAS drive - WLAN Sync to iPhone 1

iPhone 1 - 1Password Version 4.3.2 - Sync's with WLAN to iMac 1 and via iCloud to Apple ID 1

iPad 1 - 1Password Version 4.3.2 - Sync's with Apple ID 1 via iCloud

iMac 2 - 1Password Version 4.1.2 (412009) - Sync's with a public folder on a NAS drive - WLAN Sync to iPhone 2

iPhone 2 - 1Password Version 4.3.2 - Sync's with WLAN to iMac 2 and via iCloud to Apple ID 2

MacBook 1 - 1Password Version 4.1.2 (412009) - Sync's via iCloud to Apple ID 2

What we keep paying attention on is that the iOS devices just sync with one iMac and here is how it looks like:

(iPad 1 <- iCloud -> Apple ID 1 <- iCloud -> iPhone 1) <- WLAN -> (iMac 1 <- Folder -> NAS <- Folder -> iMac 2) <- WLAN -> (iPhone 2 <- iCloud -> Apple ID 2 <- iCloud -> MacBook 1)

We always have around 35 conflicts usually elderly entries where unnecessary entries are stored at the web form details. Things like "search ebay", "Gender f", "newsletter 0" or other web form ID fields. I always delete such fields but they home back again and again. But the worst thing is that older passwords are going to be the "current" password and the newer passwords are set to be the conflict. Sometimes the username is equally showing up as current and as conflict username. So basically conflicts are showing up in web form fields, password and usernames.

Cheers
Yogie

Megan

Hi @Yogie,

Thanks so much for providing such a detailed outline of your 1Password ecosystem here. Using multiple sync solutions at the same time has actually been known to cause just the type of conflicts that you are seeing. In fact, to avoid issues such as this, sync is being simplified (and improved) in the next iOS update and you will need to choose one method to sync your data between devices.

Is there a reason that you are choosing not to sync using Dropbox? Dropbox would let you keep everything synced up, either across 1 account, or 2, if you'd like to keep things separate.

I also notice that you don't mention vaults here. Are we dealing with one database or do you have multiple vaults involved here?

Megan

Hi @AndrewParker,

Thanks for the question. Dropbox is more versatile than iCloud in situations like this. Because there are two iCloud accounts involved, there is no way to directly share that data between the iCloud accounts. I'm assuming that this is the reason the two Macs are linked using Folder Sync. With Dropbox, a single account can handle multiple keychains, or a folder (with a keychain inside) can be shared between multiple Dropbox accounts. :)

Yogie

Hi @Megan‌ & @AndrewParker,

many thanks. On iOS you have only the chance to sync to one iCloud account and that can differ from the one you use to make purchases. And at the end there is a third iCloud involved which is indeed used for purchasing apps and in use by our iMac's/MacBook. The reason for not choosing Dropbox is a security reason. I know iCloud might also a security issue. We only have a single vault in the game. So maybe we have to stop using iCloud at all and simply use our iMac's to sync against our local folder and sync all iOS devices against an iMac? Is that the solution and the only way for the future iOS versions of 1Password?

Cheers
Yogie

Megan

Hi @Yogie,

Ah, the joys of multiple iCloud accounts. :) If you would prefer to not use Dropbox (and that is completely your call), then your solution of Folder Sync to keep the two Macs in sync and Wi-Fi for all the iOS devices is probably your best bet. This should prevent the conflicts from popping up, and will keep you synced up after the iOS update.

I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you here, please let me know if you have any further questions!

Yogie

@Megan‌ no worries as long as I know/learn to do it right I'm fine, so thank you so much for the solution!

Jasper

On behalf of Megan, you're welcome. Please let us know if you have any other questions! :)

Yogie

Hey @Megan and @JasperP‌

I just started to change my Sync Scenario. So the first part I changed is from:

(iPad 1 <- iCloud -> Apple ID 1 <- iCloud -> iPhone 1) <- WLAN -> (iMac 1 <- Folder -> NAS <- Folder -> iMac 2)

to be

iPhone 1 <- WLAN -> iMac 1 <- WLAN -> iPad 1 (where as iMac 1 is still syncing to the NAS but from this site there were no actions so far

I encountered that with the first sync of each iOS device I did get again these conflicts. But after cleaning up these conflicts the sync is running without any issues so far but I could bet as soon as I switch the other devices that currently do use iCloud to use only WLAN / NAS Sync I will do have to clean up again!

And now I can see a second thing on OS X I have a total of 628 items on iOS I only have 624!?

Any hints were the difference comes from and how to indicate the missing ones?

Cheers
Yogie

Megan

Hi Yogie,

First of all, there is a bug in the current version of 1Password for Mac where the item count can include the items in the Trash, so don't be too concerned about that number being off. If you would like to be sure, you are welcome to send us a Diagnostic Report and we can get an accurate item count from there.

Now, I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to clean up conflicts again. If your Mac has a full and up-to-date copy of your data, we can simply remove the data from your other iOS devices before syncing over with Wi-Fi. That should ensure that you don't have any conflicts. Try this:

• Just to be safe, let's backup the data on your iOS devices first: http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/iTunes-File-Sharing/itfs-move-to-pcs.html
• On 1Password 4 for iOS, go to Settings > Advanced and select the 'Erase Data' option
• Quit and restart 1Password 4 for iOS
• Sync the iOS devices via Wi-Fi

I hope this gets you all sorted out, but as always we're here if you hit any snags! :)

Yogie

Thank you so much @Megan‌ that will work! And I'm already looking forward to get the latest versions...

Megan

Hi @Yogie,

I'm glad to hear this solution works for you! Our developers do have some great stuff on deck for the next update, I can't wait for it to be available to everyone as well. :)

Yogie

Hi,

with the latest versions (4.4 OSX, 4.5.1 iOS) I still have trouble with sync. Here is what I have changed or what I'm doing.

I simply have one vault.

All stationary iMac's sync their local vault via a NAS stored sync-vault on a public folder.

All mobiles do sync with ONE designated iMac as SYNC BASIS.

What I do is: I change a password on that designated iMac and start sync all mobiles with the iMac. That item that has been changed is going to be send to the conflicts. The old password is the conflict and the new password is set on all devices. Why are all entries send or marked as having a conflict?

Cheers
Joerg

Megan

Hi Joerg ( @Yogie‌ )

It sounds like you've simplified your sync a lot here - I hope it's working well for you! I am sorry to hear that you're still experiencing conflicts with Wi-Fi sync. Are you making any changes to your database on iOS? Conflicts generally happen when 1Password cannot determine which change made to an item is newer.

Are you seeing conflicts in all the synced entries, or are there just a few giving you trouble?

Yogie

Hello @Megan‌,

yes I simplified the sync as much as I could.

As written before the only change I did was changing some passwords on the iMac (that iMac with which all iOS devices do sync with) and as soon as the first iOS is going to sync with the iMac all entries that have been changed on the iMac will be send to the conflicts. The old password is marked as the conflict (on iOS there were no changes made at any item in between!).

For me this behavior is reproducible.

And even more, with each separate iOS device I have to sync, the same entries (if I clear the conflicts by deleting the items marked as conflict after the first device has been synced) are going to be resend to the conflicts (having again the old password marked as the conflict) by the next iOS device that is going to be synced.

So to prevent having to clear the conflicts over and over again I would have to sync ALL iOS devices first and after ALL iOS devices have been synced I will have to clear the conflicts, then I need to sync all iOS devices again to make them aware of the changes and the cleared conflicts. After that everything is working fine (well at least until I do change a password again on OS X).

And finally this entire behavior works also vice versa. When I change a password on iOS to one entry and then I'm going to sync that iOS device to my iMac that entry is also going to be send to the conflicts (just like I described as above) clearing the conflicts and syncing another iOS device where no changes have been made, will send the same entry again to the conflicts.

The only thing that has been changed since I have opened this thread is, that the old passwords are now send to the conflicts section instead of any new passwords, which is already a good thing. But to my humble opinion instead of sending the old password to the conflicts section it would be enough to send the old password to the "previously used passwords" section.

One more thing - if I'm going to delete an entry that entry end's up in the recycle bin. If I clear (empty) the recycle bin and then start a sync with an iOS device that entry is going to be recovered and exists again. If I do not empty the recycle bin everything is fine. When I now sync ALL iOS devices while deleted entries are in the recycle bin I'm able to empty the trash folder securely. After I have emptied the recycle bin and I do sync all iOS devices again the entries are deleted permanently.

All that said until now I did not check what will happen if I would turn on another stationary Mac from our apple plantation. But I would bet that each Mac behaves the same regardless if it is an iOS or OS X device.

Cheers
Joerg

Megan

Hi Joerg ( @Yogie )

I think we'll be able to get a better idea of what's going on here if we take a closer look at your system. Could you please send us a Diagnostics Report for each of your OS X computers?

http://learn2.agilebits.com/1Password4/diagnostic-report.html

Then attach the entire file to an email to us: support+forum@ agilebits .com

Please do not post your Diagnostics Report in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report in our inbox.

A short note here once you've sent the Report in will help us to keep an eye out for it. :)

Once we see the report we should be able to better assist you. Thanks in advance!

Yogie

Hi @Megan‌ - many thanks I've just send out the report ... looking forward to hear or see about any results.

Megan

Hi Joerg ( @Yogie )

We've received your Diagnostic Report - thanks for sending it in! Someone from the support team will get back to you as soon as possible with some details.

.

Yogie

Perfect @Megan! Thanks a lot!

Cheers
Yogie

Jasper

On behalf of Megan, you're welcome!

Since someone from our support team will be working with you via email, I'm gonna close this discussion so we aren't getting things mixed up between here and there. :)