Can't sync with multiple services anymore?
Our company blocks Dropbox, and requires us to have a work apple id.
In order to keep all my passwords in a single vault, I used the ability in the iOS version of 1password to sync to multiple sources - iCloud and WiFi. That seems to have been taken away in this most recent update. Was that accidental, or intentional. If intentional, is there any chance we can request getting it back?
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The developers removed the option to use both Dropbox and iCloud from the iOS application with the latest update. They were finding that data was getting corrupted (or confused - not sure) when user selected both. That option isn't part of the Mac application either.
So it isn't an accident.
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Yes, but what about wifi sync, so that when I take my work phone home at night, I can get everything synched up?
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I have never used WiFi sync, so I'm not able to respond here. One of the AgileBits folks should be able to help, though. My apologies for reading too quickly and with imperfect comprehension of your full question.
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I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble keeping things all synced up! As @hawkmoth says, sync has changed significantly in version 4.5. This decision was made to provide a smoother and more reliable sync experience for users.
If you would prefer to sync manually with Wi-Fi, you can do so, but you will need to disable Dropbox/iCloud. However, if the situation is simply that Dropbox and iCloud are not an option for you at work, when you get home, you should have access to both/either and be able to sync automatically. If I am misunderstanding your situation here, I do apologize.
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Megan,
Add me as another person unhappy with this change. I had iCloud as a "safety" backup for my phone only. I used WiFi as my only source of sync between phone & laptop. When I went to Sync earlier today, I realized what had changed on the settings screen (forced to pick one method of sync) and figured out that I would need to manually switch to WiFi to use it. This would have been nothing more than an inconvenience, but tonight I was working on something and went to look up something in a field I had added to a passport type entry and IT WAS NOT THERE.
I had four records I had added this field to in the last 24 hours and none of them had the field or its data any longer. I checked on my phone and it had not synced to there either. I was never offered any reconciliation option on the Sync (in conflict phone wins/computer wins), so the logical assumption would be that the option is Merge and that I should not lose data. Doing a wi-fi sync that previously worked perfectly and finding missing data is both troubling and unacceptable.
I went back to a (pre-sync) backup from earlier in the day and restored that to give me confidence back in my data set (and yes, the fields were restored with the backup). Ironically, the one login I added in the afternoon after the most recent backup was on the phone and I manually re-added it to my system. How it synced that while wiping out other pieces of my data set remains a mystery.
I will try to sync again (and will have a very recent well-backed up dataset just in case), but this does not instill confidence.
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OK, I did another test sync and have isolated (at least one) definite bug. It is syncing, but] it is losing all of the user-created data fields associated with the Passport category (and heaven only knows which other categories have this same issue). Which, means for me, that you have irrevocably broken sync for me until this problem is fixed, because every time I sync, it will blow out those fields.
Also, there used to be an indication of what records were being updated in a sync. I am not seeing this in either real-time or in any of the application logs. Thus, I have no way of knowing which items may have been changed or corrupted during a sync. Am I missing someplace that I can find this? If not, I cannot stress strongly enough how useful a feature this would be.
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I, too, am not happy with this surprise change. I understand the need for data integrity is paramount. So now what do I do? Obviously, I have to give up the rather reliable iCloud sync and go to just Dropbox so that any of their employees can, if so inclined which is less likely, apply the trivial MITM attack, and slurp my passwords. At least this change alerted me to this egregious hole the size of Greenland.
I ask what I need to do because I do not want to lose the critical data that could happen with this. I presume it would only come in as a conflict but it's too important to leave to a hunch
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Got distracted. It isn't simply two iOS devices. I purchased the latest Mac version without verifying it won't run on Lion so I'm stuck on the old version until I can buy a new computer. And I forgot about this "fun" when I modified that vault in the wee hours last night. Therefore both are slightly different
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@Supportee: We were able to identify the bug you're encountering, fix it, and submit 1Password 4.5.1 to Apple for approval with that fix included. We did have a progress bar that showed sync progress, but nothing that showed exactly which items were being updated (unless I'm misremembering). We are looking to improve the sync progress in the future though.
@Pecos_Bill All of your 1Password data is completely encrypted and never sent in the clear between your devices and Dropbox. There is no MITM attack that a Dropbox employee, or anyone else for that matter, can perform. Am I correct that are you currently in a situation where 1Password on your Mac is not syncing with 1Password on your iOS devices?
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How can it? I don't believe 3.5 (?) supports iCloud on Lion (10.7) (from memory). The Mac changes last night are not on my phone this morning.
I just read about a potential MITM attack if the M has access to Dropbox so they can modify the plaintext URLs stored in the data files to point to any server of their choosing. It's not that the data is sent plaintext but that the data files can be hacked with the proper access.
Speaking of secure, how are we supposed to know that httpS is being used in 1Browser?
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I don't believe 3.5 (?) supports iCloud on Lion (10.7) (from memory). The Mac changes last night are not on my phone this morning.
The latest version of 1Password 3 (which is version 3.8.21) cannot sync via iCloud, only Dropbox: http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/configure_dropbox_on_mac.html
Speaking of secure, how are we supposed to know that httpS is being used in 1Browser?
Our developers are working on implementing a feature that would display the http/https information in 1Browser.
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Ok. Since iCloud is out, what steps do I need to take to make the switch so that data in either repository is not lost? Will the conflict system be enough if I just turn of iCloud and turn on Dropbox?
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Good morning @Pecos_Bill. Before you go any further please ensure that you have updated 1Password on your iOS devices to version 4.5.1. It was just released last night and contains some crucial fixes.
Also, please run a backup on your data in 1Password 3 using the instructions found here: http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/data_backup.html
Do this before you enable Dropbox sync on your iOS devices.Once you do that you should be able to disable iCloud and turn on Dropbox. Any conflicts should be properly handled, but if they are not please let us know.
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@MrRooni Many thanks for the quick fix on the lost data issue! I just saw the patch in my phone's app store, applied it, and now see my additional data on both the Mac App and the iOS App. Appreciate the responsiveness - and look forward to hopefully seeing sync modifications in a future version.
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Glad to hear it, @Supportee !
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I'm also missing the ability to sync between multiple sources. In my case I considered Dropbox and iClouds backups for each other. If I ever lost access to one of them for some reason I'd still have the data stored in the other. It may be slightly less secure than only syncing to one service but it did offer me an additional safety net against potentially losing access to my passwords!
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Dan, as a fellow climber I know the feeling - two crash pads are better than one. However, the improvements in the sync mechanism as a whole necessitated this change. In fact, these changes lay the groundwork for us to support even more syncing mechanisms beyond Dropbox and iCloud in the future, something many people have been asking for!
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Thanks for the reply Rooni. I'm developer as well as a climber, so I know sometimes decisions around features can be hard :). Maybe I can set up IFTTT to do some backup backing up from my Dropbox to somewhere else for me.
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That's not a bad idea. I also came across this blog post the other day where a dude did it with Hazel: http://kevinyank.com/posts/orbitkey-1password-hazel-love/
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Unfortunately, this change may be enough to force me away from using 1Password, something I'm very sad about.
I use 1Password on a range of Windows, OSX, and iOS devices. Previously I would use the ability to sync my iOS devices to both iCloud and Dropbox to keep a copy of my keychain in both systems. This allowed me to use 1Password on various OSX devices without having to install any extra software (e.g. Dropbox), as this is a hard requirement for me on some systems, while also allowing me to use 1Password on my Windows devices via Dropbox.I honestly can't think of a good solution for this now, especially given the difference in keychain format between iCloud and other sync methods. The best I can come up with is to stick with iCloud primarily, and every couple of days set one of my iOS devices to switch to sync with Dropbox in order to update/merge that data, then back to iCloud again. Frankly, doing that on a regular basis seems to me to have a much greater risk to my data integrity than the previous automatic syncing with both iCloud and Dropbox.
How about adding this feature back in, but just as an Advanced/Experts only option, and try to make sure people realise there's additional risk involved?
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When we built the version 4.0 of the iOS app, we thought that having multiple sync sources is something that is absolutely needed because the Mac app did not support iCloud syncing at the time. I also thought that it will be a relatively simple task and we wouldn't have many problems implementing it.
I was wrong and I am sorry about that.
Syncing is pretty hard to get right. Adding multiple sync sources on top of that makes the problem exponentially harder. Here is some of the issues that we found with multiple sync sources:
- There are quite a few scenarios that must be tested when syncing single vault and multiple vaults with each of the sync sources. Now imagine adding multiple sync sources on top of that and all the possible combinations. Also imagine what will happen if we add more sync options in addition to iCloud and Dropbox.
- Syncing is much slower not just because of more work performed but also because if the change is detected in second sync source, the entire process has to be restarted.
- A device that performs syncing with multiple sources has to be running as bridge to sync between iCloud and Dropbox. If the user forgets to run it then the change will not appear on some devices and the sync will appear broken. When syncing is working well we usually do not think if how it is done and forget the details like that.
For @Endareth
You are afraid of data integrity issues when you constantly switch between Dropbox and iCloud but that's not much different from what syncing with multiple sync sources does every single time you run it.
What are other limitations on some of your Macs? One thing that we added recently is syncing with removable drives (USB and SD Card). It is not as convenient but it might help in some cases. Wi-Fi sync is another option.
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Manual processes invariably suffer more from data integrity issues than automatic processes; I deal with exactly these types of situations professionally. I completely understand that syncing with multiple systems is a difficult process to get right, but I was under the impression that 1Password has managed a fantastic job of achieving that over the years.
Syncing with removable drives isn't an option, as many of the systems I'm accessing are remote.
Is there any chance of the iCloud version of the keychain coming into use (or at least being accessible) via the Windows version of 1Password? I can easily set up a sync process using SpiderOak to keep that secure.
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Hi @Endareth
Thanks so much for your understanding here - it is much appreciated! Unfortunately, iCloud sync will not be an option for Windows until Apple decides to make it available to the Windows platform (which is something they have not yet chosen to do).
Have you taken a look at 1PasswordAnywhere? If you store your database in Dropbox, 1PasswordAnywhere allows you access to your database simply by logging in to Dropbox's website on a web browser - no installation required. It is a read-only service, but it's handy for places where you are not permitted to install programs.
I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you right now, but I hope this helps! As Roustem mentions above, we'd be happy to discuss solutions for your specific setup if you provide us a bit more detail on your 1Password ecosystem (version numbers, operating systems, current sync methods and such.)
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The fundamental problem with using 1PasswordAnywhere is that it requires access to Dropbox, something that (for me) would normally require the use of 1Password. A chicken and the egg problem.
As for my specific setup, I currently run the latest release versions of 1Password on my iOS devices (all 7.x versions), latest AppStore release version of 1Password on my Macs (OSX 10.9.2/3), and latest 4.0 beta on my Windows 7.1 machines.
I previously had my iOS devices set to sync via iCloud and Dropbox, Macs set to use iCloud, and Windows set to use Dropbox. Changes were made on various devices, depending on the situation. Now my iOS devices are set to sync with iCloud, and my Windows machines are working with older data. As mentioned I've started switching the sync method on an iOS device to use Dropbox, wait for completion, then back to iCloud, in order to update the Dropbox data (and propagate any Windows-originated changes back to iCloud).
Regarding the iCloud/Windows situation, I understand that Apple have no current public plans for implementing on Windows, I was more wondering whether that actual format of the 1Password keychain data that's stored in iCloud could be readable by the Windows client if the data was moved (synced) to a location accessible to the client?
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Hi @Endareth
To make 1PasswordAnywhere access via Dropbox easier, I recommend looking into Diceware passwords. Our security expert explains them in this blog post: Towards Better Master Passwords. It's a great way to create secure passwords that are also easier to remember, and type. :) I use Diceware for my Master Password as well as my AppleID password and my Dropbox password, as those seem to be the ones I need to type frequently.
I was more wondering whether that actual format of the 1Password keychain data that's stored in iCloud could be readable by the Windows client if the data was moved (synced) to a location accessible to the client?
Unfortunately, at this time the Windows client is not able to read the 1Password keychain data as it is stored in iCloud. Once .opvault has been rolled out across all platforms we might have a better solution for you here, but at this time, considering a Diceware password for Dropbox and making use of 1PasswordAnywhere is probably the simplest option for you if you are unwilling to install Dropbox directly on your computers.
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