Share item security

Stoli

The blurb for item sharing is "1Password 4 introduces the ability selectively share encrypted items via email or iMessage."

I am trying to understand how this works from an encryption standpoint. If I send an item to someone, and it is encrypted, how are they able to decrypt it? There is no sharing of keys beforehand, only the text message. I must be missing something.

MikeT

Hi @Stoli,

Where do you see this blurb? I'll ask if we can reword it more accurately. It's not encrypted when it is being shared, it is in an obfuscated format rather. We explain how this works here: http://blog.agilebits.com/2013/05/14/understanding-sharing/

benfdc

@Stoli—

This type of sharing is only secure if the transmission medium is secure. Apple claims that Messages is secure. Email, not so much.

I frankly do not understand why AgileBits obfuscates share URLs, since anyone can download a trial copy of 1Password to “de-obfuscate” the information. IMO this obfuscation provides only a false sense of security.

Sharing an entire vault is potentially secure because then the shared information is encrypted rather than merely obfuscated. I say potentially because you still must distribute the password to that vault securely and you must rely on all recipients of the password to the shared vault to handle that password securely.

In short, secure sharing is a non-trivial problem.

Stoli

I am aware of the complexities of sharing, which is what triggered my question in the first place since I saw no way to get a key of any kind passed that would enable decryption.

Mike,
The claim is made on the "introduction" page, most of the way to the bottom:
http://guides.agilebits.com/1password-4-for-mac/4/en/topic/introducing-1password-mac?q=Share

Based on the info you've linked to, I do believe a rewrite is required. The introduction page is not misleading, it is outright wrong.

Stoli

Btw, why is this description only located in a blog posting? It would seem to me to be better located in the user manual.

MikeT

Hi @Stoli,

We're still in the middle of moving to a new docs platform and there are lot of guides that we need to update. The introduction page hasn't been updated in a while.

The blog is handled by our social media team and they often used it to write about the upcoming new features when it is not even in the app yet. We generally don't update the guide until the update is released first because new features may not make the cut all the time. You're right, it should have been in the guide by now.

I'll file a request to have the guide updated to correct that mistake and include a link to the blog post or include the information in the guide in its entirety.

Thanks!

noah_r

I'm really bothered by how misleading the sharing implementation is.
The same statement exists in the current web and PDF version of the 1Password 4 manual. ( linked to from the product web manual, https://www.manula.com/media/29/1630_2262_2346_en_1403649099.pdf) "1Password 4 introduces the ability selectively share encrypted items via email or iMessage"

This part of the manual should also be modified to explicitly state that the shared content is not encrypted. "Use the commands on the Share submenu to send a single selected item by email or text message, to print a hard copy of a single selected item, or to move or copy one or more selected items to another of your vaults."

The GUI should be modified to say the same thing. A dialog box should come up every time an item is shared forcing the user to acknowledge a warning the content is not encrypted.

Or just go ahead and delete the functionality. I think its more dangerous than helpful.
Of course I'd love to have the ability to securely share individual items.

Why bother obfuscating the content?? In the 1Password 4 hype (https://agilebits.com/onepassword/mac#sharing) consider the WiFi password example. Why wouldn't I just text my friend the wifi password in-the-clear instead of texting the obfuscated link?
This is another bit of documentation that should be updated to clarify the behavior of this 'feature'.

Megan

Hi @noah_r‌

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts here. I think that this sounds like a question for our security guru. I'll ask @jpgoldberg to step in here. :)

He'll be able to give you a better answer than I could.

benfdc

Based on an exchange that took place in an older thread, @Megan, I think that your security guru may sympathize with the critics of obfuscated sharing who have spoken up here. But we'll see. And I heartily endorse the request that all documentation about sharing "encrypted items" be revised.

I find 1Password's sharing capability to be very convenient—In fact, I just used it to send my wife the Wi-Fi password for her parents’ country club. However, I do not and would not use it for sensitive data.

Megan

Hi @benfdc,

I wouldn't be surprised if a similar conversation has happened elsewhere in the forums - we have so many interested users! I was unable to find anything relevant with a quick forum search, but if you do happen to know where the existing conversation is, I'd love it if you could link to it, to give @noah_r a bit to read up on while we wait for Goldberg to pop in here. :)

I'm with you on the convenience of the sharing feature - it's really handy, but using it only for less-serious items is not a bad idea.

jpgoldberg

Exactly correct @benfdc!

We had anticipated that the obfuscated sharing would be temporary solution until it was included in a more general sharing solution that didn't rely on obfuscation. The maxim that one should "take care with temporary measures as they tend to become permanent" may have been something that we should have paid closer attention to.

benfdc

@Megan—

if you do happen to know where the existing conversation is, I'd love it if you could link to it

Found it!

Given that AgileBits has been aware of the insecurity of its sharing feature from day one, I find it very disappointing that there were ever statements on the website about “the ability [to] selectively share encrypted items via email or iMessage.” @Stoli highlighted the problem with this page back on August 17, but as of this moment no edits have been made.

Megan

Hi @benfdc‌

You rock. :) Keeping note of it for future conversations.

snakeears

Hi Megan & other Agilians:

Just getting up to speed on this topic and wondered if there was any news.

After mindlessly discovering and using the Share feature--it IS super convenient--I started to think about the security implications... which lead me here.

I too would prefer a share option with encryption--or one where the text was completely in the clear so there'd be no doubt the risk user is taking on by using the Share feature.

Thanks

Ben

Hi @snakeears,

There is very little I can say at this point other than that we'll be completely redesigning how sharing is done in the future.

Thanks!

juanii

Hello. I was about to post the following message completely unaware that there was another ongoing conversation on the subject. This is not iOS-specific, but I'll post it here anyway and leave to the moderators the decision of moving it to a more appropriate forum. After reading this post I see you're already thinking how to redesign the feature but I'll leave my comments just in case they add something useful:

I recently had to share a password with a work mate. We all use 1Password at work and some of us even have a shared vault with all our relevant passwords and keys. This time I only had to share one item and it wasn't necessary to give access to the whole vault. I thought of using Share via Mail, but I suspected the URI is only obfuscated. I confirmed in your website it must be shared over a secure channel (so I could've shared the password instead). We then had like a 3 minutes brainstorming on how to share items with 1Password. I thought it would be useful to write them down and posting here.

1. Let the user export items encrypted with a public RSA key. This way you don't need to share anything over a secure channel with the other person.

2. Let the user encrypt exported items with another master password (similar to a PKCS12 archive). I know you'd still have to send the password over a secure channel, but in some scenarios (mainly non-digital channels) it's far easier to share "correct horse battery staple" than some URI(s) almost 1KB long each. This sounds a lot like creating another vault with the items to share, but doing it with today's features takes several steps. Maybe another option under the Export menu named "Create new vault with selected items…" would be enough. This exported vault shouldn't be added to your vaults list since it was created with the sole purpose of being sent to another person.

3. Let the user have several master passwords for the same shared vault, each of them decrypting a different (chosen) subset of items. Maybe this is going too far for a very specific use case. Anyway, the rough idea would be to encrypt each item's key with keys derived from the master passwords that can access that particular item. This would need an entire new feature to create the alternate passwords and associate them with certain items. I think encrypting the same key with several other keys shouldn't weaken the security since it only allows for ciphertext-only attacks, but I'd rather let you do that math :). This approach eliminates the need to re-share an item each time it's updated.

Of course we didn't think this thoroughly so maybe some (or all) the ideas might be worthless, difficult, insecure or even impossible to implement. In any case, it would be great if you could add some ways of sharing items securely.

Regards

AGAlumB

@juanii: Definitely getting a bit 'into the weeds' there with some of that (especially with #3). I like the idea, though the multiple-master-passwords thing just won't fly for the vast majority, I'm afraid. But the fact that you guys had to have a brainstorming session and set up a system to send the login just illustrates that we have some work to do here. : >_<

Some food for thought: after reading this thread (I love it!) I just wanted to add that part of the problem in regard to this particular feature here may be in the name 'sharing'. In my experience, the best way to use this is more like 'giving':
1. Send obfuscated login to recipient
2. Once received, recipient uses login...
3. ..changes password (and username, if possible; security questions/answers if included)
4. Profit!!!

It isn't perfect, but it's a start. Anyway, thanks not only for the thoughtful feedback, but also the passion for a solution to a real problem. 'Sharing' is just the beginning, so we will have to come up with something better that everyone (not just the types like us who enjoy having these conversations) can use! ;)

[Deleted User]

I can understand why someone would want to share a note that is not sensitive, but why would anyone want to share their login. Please take that option out of logins good grief.

Stephen_C

@kunder you may not have cause to share any login, I do on occasion.

Stephen

Ben

I do as well. :) I think needing to share a login is a fairly common thing, however we are looking at re-engineering how that process works.

Thanks!

MrC

It would be really nice if there was an ability to encrypt the message with a password, and then the user could share the password via an alternate channel such as SMS.

AGAlumB

@MrC: Agreed! It's always nice to have options. Hopefully we can improve sharing in the future in a way that will useful to even more people. Cheers! :)