How do I delete my primary vault?
Or, failing that, how do I get sync to overwrite the current vault rather than merging?
I frequently run in to the situation where the current vault is ancient but my upstream sync version is pristine. if I allow merging, then I end up with a billion "conflict" entries and I no longer know where any of my passwords are since some end up in the primary slot and others end up in the conflict slot. I know this is about to happen and that all of the current data is bogus. So how do I toss it and let the sync data override?
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Hi @teamnoir
I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems keeping things synced up. If you would like to start fresh with 1Password on one machine, please follow the directions here: Starting Over.
If you would like some help troubleshooting sync though, please let us know - we'd be happy to help you out so that this drastic process isn't necessary! :)
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I think that experience with various versions of sync over the years in other apps has shown that it is always necessary. I'm astonished that you don't have a process for this.
Starting over doesn't help. From there, when I attempt to sync, it decides that I have removed everything in my database and starts removing things in order to "sync" them to my upstream source. I get the same thing if I try to use a fresh vault, except that I'm not allowed to remove my original vault, which makes things extremely difficult. The best I can do is to copy bits over chunk by chunk manually. There should be some way to just ask for one vault to replace/overwrite another, or for me to rename a vault to be my new master vault, or something.
What else ya got?
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Ps, this is also a major pita when starting a new machine. I'd really like to just be able to point the sync and let it overwrite from there. But instead, I have to seed the new machine with a copy of the database, an exact copy of the database or I'll lose data, prior to attempting to sync. Every time I do this I lose data because I'm expecting it to "do the right thing" and it doesn't, and doesn't even ask me if I want to overwrite. This is a major nuisance.
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There's a similar problem that occurs when switching syncing methods. Worse, because I can't actually get a true copy of my database from syncing, I end up with different databases on different machines because the conflicts all end up in different places. So on machine 1, the real password is in the real password but on machine 2, the real password is in the second conflict slot. With even a modest size database, this stuff never really gets sorted.
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Starting over doesn't work because the app can't tell the difference between a fresh vault, (which would like to be overwritten by sync data), and a vault in which I've deleted all my entries, (in which case the deletions should be propagated to the sync version). That's the problem here. And since I know which one I want to have happen, I'd really like to just ask to have that done.
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Hi @teamnoir
I'm a little perplexed. Now if you were to manually empty a synced vault by moving all the items to Trash then I'd expect those deletions to synchronise too. Unless with good reason you'd expect deletions to sync too for most synchronisations in general.
But the link that Megan supplied was about wiping 1Password so that it as if it had never run. When you do that there shouldn't ever be any change to the contents of the synchronised data. I don't do it routinely but more than once I've wiped a device for testing something out and when I do so I've never had any conflicts arise if I'm starting from scratch, after all there is nothing to merge or overwrite, technically there isn't even a vault.
Could you confirm please that after following the instructions for starting over that you then see all the steps in getting started again on a new computer. I'm really surprised that if you're following this that you're seeing any damage to your synchronised data.
Those steps have never steered me wrong but if it isn't working for you, and we'd really like to know if it isn't, then does the ability to restore from a backup help you at all?
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Getting started again only helps with the local data. It doesn't help with sync.
Restoring from backup is the same. It updates the current vault... until sync, at which point it all gets wiped out again.
I need a way to overwrite a vault with sync data. I'd also really like a way to overwrite sync data with a vault.
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@teamnoir I'm a little confused - sorry. The starting over followed by getting started again on a new computer would be retrieving the data from your sync location. If I didn't know any better I'd say it sounds like you're saying that the sync'd data is messing you around but you said in your first post it's pristine.
Say you wipe 1Password on machine A and start again, telling it to use your existing vault in Dropbox (for example). It pulls down the vault from there and at that moment the two vaults should be the same with no conflicts, after all there was nothing to conflict with. Does that happen for you?
but then, even if you don't alter anything, the next time it syncs you end up with conflicts?
This may require a diagnostic report to figure out what is going on. If you help me understand based on my questions we'll go from there.
Unfortunately at the moment there isn't a way to say "ignore the contents of this vault, just replace it with the sync'd version" beyond the steps already mentioned. I'm surprised, they've never gone wrong for me like you're describing. The only safe way to replace a sync version of your vault would be to disable synchronisation on all devices, delete the data and then start from scratch from a single machine. Let it create a new keychain or opvault (depending on the sync service). Assuming that one machine holds a current copy of every password I'd say wipe each device in turn and have it pull a fresh copy in.
As I say, we may need to ask for a diagnostic report to resolve this, if you use @littlebobbytables in your reply I'll be notified when you respond.
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@littlebobbytables that's what I've had to do in the past. But this is getting old. I've done it too many times. I can't afford to lose a few days several times a year. If there's no way to get it to sync without randomly polluting my data, then I'll need to find some other solution.
Earlier this week, I turned on a mac that has been powered off for many months. I knew that its password database was stale and I knew that 1password couldn't sync properly in this context. So I created a fresh vault and asked it to sync (from dropbox). I was hoping to find a vault overwrite or rename command so I could make the new vault my primary vault, or to find a way to get one vault or sync to overwrite the primary.
But, of course, instead of pulling in a fresh database from sync, it started removing everything from sync to match the fresh, empty vault. I managed to kill it before it removed the entire database, but it was syncing as though the, (fresh, empty), had recent deletions rather than never having had a database. I haven't been able to resolve the mess yet. I'll have to look through all of my other devices, (now undoubtedly polluted by the rogue deletions), and see which one might have a more recent backup laying around. But honestly, I don't know how to get the sync database correct again short of deleting it entirely, flushing all but one machine, and starting completely over. And frankly, I've done that too many times now with 1password. If I really have to start all over again from scratch, I'll be doing it with a competing product. Especially since sometimes, when a new machine is added to sync, it overwrites sync with nothing rather than overwriting the current vault with sync.
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FWIW, the "starting over" page says at the top that it will delete my vaults. But at the bottom is says that after "starting over" it will find my old vaults. Which is it? Is this the answer to my original question of how to delete my primary vault?
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How do I "start over" on iPad?
On iPhone?
How do I save the data that is on those devices now? Or am I just stuck with the massive conflict situation again if I try?
Eg, in a particular folder, my macs now see 6 items. My iphone sees 5. My ipad sees 7. iPad thinks it's syncing to dropbox. iPhone noticed the fresh dropbox database and stubbornly refused to sync anymore.
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I am not littlebobbytables but you can start over on 1P for iOS by going to Settings > Advanced > Erase Data and Settings.
Edit:...and then force closing 1P.
Stephen
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@teamnoir I think in your case the forums may not be the optimal place to try and discover the underlying root of all these issues. Would you be willing to email support@agilebits.com and then post the ticket ID here? This way we can escalate it and try to get this all resolved.
Sorry for the delay in responding, I don't want to mess you around so I was asking people better than I how to best proceed.
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@teamnoir as for a couple of those questions. The starting over guide is about completely starting again from scratch, no vault at all. The finding old vaults that it refers to at the bottom of the guide is in reference to an old 1Password 3 vault which was stored in a different location. The steps for clearing 1Password 4 wouldn't touch that and 1Password 4 would try and migrate that information.
If you've completely cleared 1Password 4 then you should see the welcome screen when you start it back up, as shown in the running 1Password for the first time section of the manual. From there you can say you have an existing Dropbox repository which is what you say you've done. That's why I'm partly confused as if you start from no vault at all how can there be conflicts?
I'm being told two extremely key parts of the steps in starting over are ensuring 1Password Mini isn't running (step 1) and the reboot your machine at the end. If these steps aren't done there can be all sorts of odd behaviour due to caching, some by 1Password Mini and some by I think Mountain Lion and onwards. You can remove preference files and think they're gone but they aren't until you reboot.
As for starting over on an iOS device, as of at least 1Password 5 there is the option in Settings : Advanced to Erase Data and Settings. That's akin to completely deleting the app and then re-installing it as an app's data can't exist without the app in iOS.
You'll also see under Advanced that a Backup can be made and then downloaded from the device via iTunes. You could create backups of each device prior to any changes and save each one in a folder on your machine.
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No, thanks. I've been through this too many times with you folks. I've just accepted the loss of data and conflicts again this time. I'd rather spend my time checking out your competitors at this point.
I will leave you with one comment. The "starting over" process should be in the mac app like it is in the ios app. Something that is used this commonly shouldn't require a question on the forum to discover. It should be available in the app.
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Sigh. @littlebobbytables
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@teamnoir I know your experiences haven't been great but I believe yours is an fairly extreme case. By that I mean many users never need to know how to start from scratch. While I know how to, I've moved from 1Password 3 to 1Password 4/5, mucked about with WiFi syncing (and cursed it a few times) and never been in your (very unlucky) position which I have no doubt is frustrating. The reason they've probably included the option in iOS isn't because they think users will need it with some degree of regularity, merely that on OS X you can wipe your vault without deleting the program like you have to on iOS.
I'm sorry you don't feel the support team would be able to help if you were to email in. If you change your mind at all please do post here so it can get the attention it needs. I'm not suggesting any ticket is ignored, just that as we've been trying to help your for a while already that it gets pushed up.
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I know probably a dozen people who have used 1password in the past. Of those, I'm the only one still using it. We've all had these kinds of problems and most of them bailed when support wasn't forthcoming. In contrast, I know no one who is using your product without major issue. From where I sit, my case isn't extreme. It's common.
I'd like to encourage you and the rest of the company to reconsider the situation you're in now. What you're telling me is that the convenience, the usability, hell, even the data integrity of your long term customers doesn't matter to you. After the discussions here in recent days, I now suspect that the sync issues have to do with version slew and that you're not designing, much less testing, for interactivity back far enough and that you're not doing enough "black" box testing with people who are unfamiliar with the inner workings of 1password.
It's not that you can't help me. You probably can help me, eventually, with data loss. But not fast enough. I need my passwords every hour of every day. I can't afford to wait a week or two. And I don't have any way to save the state of a complex system for you to peruse in your own time.
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Hi @teamnoir,
I'm very sorry that you're not willing to work with our team via email. I do believe that our tech gurus could get you straightened out with no data loss. If you send a Diagnostics Report in to us (as Rick has suggested in another thread) we'll have a much better idea of where things are getting tangled up.
If you let us know here when you've sent the Report in, we'll be able to ensure that it is dealt with in a timely manner.
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@littlebobbytableslittlebobbytables
Ok, so I'm facing the problem again. And again, I can't afford to live without my passwords for any length of time so unless you folks are available rightnow* to debug this on the telephone, I'm going to have to fix it myself.
Apparently, the latest beta dropped my license. This happens periodically. I don't know why, but I don't usually worry much about it.
However, the vault on my current machine apparently doesn't have my license stored in it. Nor does a recent backup. And for whatever reason, it's not sync'ing.
Now... I'm scared to tell it to sync, since there's no way to tell it that the sync data should overwrite, and I've had way too many sync issues and data losses from situations like this. So apparently, I'm going to have to "start over", presumably on all of my macs that download this beta.
You asked previously what sort of situation could lead to these problems. So here's the most recent one. As you can see, it was only a month ago that I had this problem last. And here I am again.
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