I'm leaning towards a new password app...
Dear Agile Bits,
I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, as I basically really like 1Password, and use it on a daily basis.
However, I feel that the price tag combined with the frequency of new major releases (and thus having to buy again) is now making me begin to look elsewhere. Also given that the last few years has seen the competition increase in the field of password managers: And prices ranging from one tenth of yours, to free, is difficult to ignore.
Maybe I'm alone on this, maybe it's something others feel too – anyway, as an otherwise satisfied customer, the least I could do was to give you a heads up.
Best, Daniel
Comments
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Edit: my reply here came off as negative. My apologies, it was not intended that way.
I think your avatar represents your case well - a hole in the ground vs a proper facility. Both serve the intended purpose, but I think we'd all agree the latter is the better choice whenever possible. :)
ps. I'm just a user who loves 1Password.
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You might also consider whether you want to control, and keep, your passwords...or whether you're happy to entrust them to some company's servers on the Internet. I know which I prefer.
Stephen
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From a long time user. (not a staff reply as I am a volunteer)
- 1Password 2 (11-8-2006) to 1Password 3 (11-19-2009) was heavily discounted if you purchased during the transition period. 3 Years of active development
- 1Password 3 (11-19-2009) to 1Password 4 (10-4-13) was a paid upgrade. Almost 4 years of active development
- 1Password 4 (10-4-13) to 1Password 5 (present) was / is a free upgrade.
Now true it can be relatively a higher price to pay. But each year the vulnerabilities grow, more staff is needed to maintain such a complex set of code. Add new features and so on. New OS's are released, they need testing equipment, and food and shelter.
I for one would have no issue paying each year if needed. Why you ask ? OK, the mac license for 6 users is $50 for easy or writing. I currently have 3 users on my license, my eldest son, wife and myself.
- $50 per year / 3 users on that license is equal to about $ 17 per person
- $17 per person / 365 days per year = a rough cost of 0.05 ¢ per day Not bad for how much I / we use it.
For a single user case
- $50 per year / 365 days = about 0.14 ¢ per day
IMHO they actually have a very liberal update time frame. People are still running 1Password 3 on Yosemite. I trust them to protect me in my web travels and they have a great track record. I personally cannot expect much free services. They could be free and work wonderfully. But free usually comes at a price, no guarantee of future development.
Heck I have wasted that much on 3 bad iTunes movies. A McDonalds meal is almost $8 now on average.
I think it all comes down to how you prioritize your purchase as a valuable or a non valuable one.
I have to admit as a new user it is a hard purchase but once you realize how much work goes into it. How many people are behind the scenes. (If I recall correctly its over 40 people now.) It makes it easier. Maybe not at first but over time you come to that realization, at least I did.
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I'm in agreement with the original poster. I continue to use 1password3 ... and it works nicely. Mostly.
I've been bitten by purchasing the apps at the wrong time and missing out on upgrade deals. I've lost the ability to sync with dropbox (yes, yes, dropbox changed their api, but 1password3 could have been upgraded to support this). Because I bought directly from Agilebits, I need to repurchase (not upgrade) if I want iCloud sync features. Some of my devices are no longer supported (iPhone 4). Lots of little annoyances like this make me question whether I want to stick with 1password.
Your attacks on the original poster are not helpful. I'm sure Agilebits can stand up for themselves. Even better if they considered their existing users before planning their product roadmap.
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I don't think anyone is "attacking" the original poster. We all have our individual views about matters like this and, of course, respect your views and those of the original poster. However, I think we're bound to assume that, since the original poster posted on this forum, he was at the very least seeking views from others. :)
My own view is that AgileBits is an honourable, thoroughly helpful company that always tries to do the best for its users while still maintaining a viable commercial model that ensures it stays in business. I do appreciate the frustration of missing special offers. However, they seem to come around reasonably frequently so it's worth keeping an eye on the blog for them. You can also subscribe here for a newsletter and there's a Twitter feed for those who are into that sort of thing.
Stephen
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I don't think anyone is "attacking" the original poster.
Really? That's good to hear. But another poster made derogatory comments about the OPs avatar, and you suggested the poster would lose control of their passwords if they relied on some other storage service (I assume you don't sync using iCloud or dropbox).
In any case, my personal opinion is that the business model that Agilebits uses is flawed ... there is a divide between winning and losing customers based on the technical/product choices Agilebits has made. For me, it seems to be a gamble to upgrade ... will I be orphaned again somehow? I'd probably prefer to pay a subscription fee every year and be guaranteed access to the latest and greatest while I'm subscribed. I would suggest a yearly fee around $20-30, based on the current license fee and the version lifetimes described by thightower. Even better if it was a one off fee that covered all clients. I'm happy to pay for this (mostly) excellent software. I'm not happy to pay for the less than excellent product decisions that have orphaned "legacy" users.
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It was all in good fun. I love the avatar!
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Hi Guys,
Thank you for you thoughts.
**Maybe I'm missing something here, so please help me: **I've bought and maintained the Family License up until version 4, directly from the AgileBits website.
Now I got a new mac, went to the App Store, and there's version 5 – Price: 54 USD (I see it in DKR, which is 329,-)Can I upgrade instead?
(Dont know if I missed an upgrade window – I've been travelling with my family for 5 months and – YES! – Haven't checked mail once. )MrC: Thank you for clarifying it was in good fun. Given that you are a Community Moderator, and I was posting my first message ever, as a courtesy, your comment actually offended me at first!
Hope to stay in the 1Password loop,
Daniel0 -
(I assume you don't sync using iCloud or dropbox)
Entirely correct: I use local wifi sync only. ;)
@Daniel Gjøde the upgrade from 1P4 to 1P5 is free and there was no "upgrade window". However, you do need to be running OS X Yosemite (10.10) in order to be offered the 1P5 upgrade.
Stephen
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Thank you @Stephen_C
I am running Yosemite, I'm logged in to App Store with the same credentials/email as when I bought 1P4, but it still shows as a paid upgrade.
Any advice how to debug this?Thanks
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Aha, you said before:
I've bought and maintained the Family License up until version 4, directly from the AgileBits website.
That means that's the place you need to go for the upgrade. You can't freely upgrade the AgileBits store version to the Mac App Store version. Note that there is an important consequence of that. The AgileBits store version of 1P5 will not sync to iCloud. AgileBits can no longer support iCloud sync in its own store version because of changes made by Apple.
Stephen
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AgileBits can no longer support iCloud sync in its own store version because of changes made by Apple.
Not exactly true. AgileBits has chosen a technical solution that will only work with 1password downloaded from apple's app store. There are other iCloud options that wouldn't require this.
What is exactly true ... this is the reason Daniel can't upgrade via the mac app store. And there is no solution to this.
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Ooh, I see. Ok!
I can live without that, as I use dropbox for that.
Thanks Stephen0 -
Ignore the image to the right-hand side of this text for a moment. Before my quite recent incorporation into the AgileBits team I was merely a customer and one for a far longer period than as a member of this amazing company. There are plenty more old school than I, I only started with 1Password 3, moving up to 1Password 4 and then 5 as I could.
I've done everything from using bcrypt on a text file to free password managers before settling on 1Password for the last few years. During that time I've purchased for both iOS and OS X and I've never begrudged them the costs. When I had the option of picking up a 1Password 4 licence at an upgrade cost compared to purchasing from the MAS I looked into the two and made my choice of going down the route of MAS due to the warning of "at some point in the future Apple may..." I can't remember where I read it as it was a while ago and my memory can be crap at times.
The way I figure it is good software costs. Bad software costs as well which is another reason I don't mind paying for the software I value and I wouldn't want to be without 1Password. It fits my style and yes, every so often I have to maybe fit in with a quirk, just like everybody else, but I've never felt compelled to look elsewhere.
Now 1Password may not be a fit for everybody, for others it may be missing some essential feature that product Y has.
As a member of the AgileBits team I just wanted to address a couple of your points.
The Apple store is remarkably rigid and we have to follow their rules. We used to have iCloud support and then Apple decided to enforce restricting access to those applications being sold from within their walled gardens. We got caught out and one of the founders, Dave Teare addressed this in his announcement, iCloud Changes in the Website Version of 1Password 5. It isn't the only disadvantage of the iTunes store or MAS. We can't offer upgrade prices to previous version owners, we don't have a way of mass migrating between the two nor can we offer any real assistance if you're having trouble with purchasing etc when you buy via Apple. We can do things like upgrade discounts on our site because we control it. We can even move people from the MAS version to the Web Store version if they want because again, it's under our control. It's true we didn't have to use CloudKit but it promised to be superior in most ways to the old iCloud and it was felt that was the only viable route.
There are literally hundreds of different business models out there. Apple used to charge a nominal fee for OS X but then decided to give it away because they make their real money in the hardware. We're a software company so we charge for the software. If we gave it away for free we'd have to go down the route of Facebook where instead of you being the customer you end up being part of the product (the exact reason I don't do things like Facebook). I saw the suggestion of a subscription which is definitely a viable model. Personally I've never liked the idea, given the choice between buying a copy of Microsoft Office outright or paying every month I know which I prefer but that may just be me.
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MrC: Thank you for clarifying it was in good fun. Given that you are a Community Moderator, and I was posting my first message ever, as a courtesy, your comment actually offended me at first!
You're welcome and I'm so sorry. Many thanks to @typerlc for catching the tone slip, and I'll be more careful in the future. Again, my sincerest apologies.
To remedy this, I'll pick up the cost of your upgrade. PM me and we'll work out the details.
Best,
MrC0 -
@littlebobbytables ("As a member of the AgileBits team")
I've rewritten this post a couple of times. And this final version has been toned down a lot. While the OP may now be happy ... the sentiment he expressed in the first post is still a large gripe of mine ... and surely others as well. I see no understanding that your product decisions are making people (or is it just me?) unhappy. Losing dropbox sync, losing iCloud sync, losing access to the client on iPhone4. It would be good if you would re-iterate your commitment to existing users of your products, and be better if you can hand-on-heart say that you will try never to orphan customers in future versions of your product. Not saying you did this to be spiteful, just that it doesn't seem to be an element in the decision making of features for new product releases.
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Hi @typerlc,
I'm sorry to hear that you're still feeling frustrated here. We certainly don't want our users to feel abandoned or forced into an upgrade. Unfortunately operating systems (and supporting APIs such as Dropbox) change very quickly. Because of this we are not always able to provide bug fixes for previous versions. We are more than happy to continue to offer help for previous versions of 1Password as long as users wish to continue to use them, and ensure that those versions work as smoothly as possible for them, even if we cannot always continue to provide software updates.
I hope this helps to confirm that we are committed to our users, but if you have any further questions, we're here for you!
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I had software orphaned by OS updates back when I used my first Apple ][. What's new in that?
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I've been a customer since 2009. I'm not required to pay Agilebits anything extra for support yet the service I have received over the years has been outstanding. Easily worth every penny of any product fee I've ever needed to pay and that hasn't been a lot. In fact I think Agilebits have been more than fair with their upgrade policies in light of the significant advancements they have made with the products.
Since owning 1Password I have been unlucky enough to have a phone and a laptop stolen in two separate incidents. The harsh reality of such experience tends to sharpen your mind with respect to the security of your password data. Most 1Password users are by definition quite security conscious but believe me you think about the subject in far greater depth when you lose one of your devices.
After each event, the Agilebits folks acted more like counsellors than support people. They went to enormous lengths to reassure me and explain why they thought my keychain remained safe despite the device loss. Even then they still patiently indulged my paranoia as I began to learn how 1Password works underneath. On the first occasion they explained how to recreate a new keychain so that the internal keys were regenerated and how to go about systematically changing the passwords I deemed important.
In my experience you tend to get what you pay for and the price of most premium products is justifiable. 1Password is one such example in my book.
@Daniel Gjøde I hope you've found the upgrade price acceptable (or took up @MrC on his generous offer) and stayed with us. 5 months travelling with your family and no email? I'm envious. :)
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I strongly endorse what @Penelope Pitstop has said about AgileBits and 1Password. I have not come across any other company which provides such fair, responsive support. (I don't work for AgileBits, by the way.)
Stephen
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I was writing a long post, but everyone on here already said what I wanted too.
This is a great product and great people. Looking at the support people get and how nice everyone is, makes me feel better spending money here. I'll be spending more and I'm excited to get this for my mom for Christmas :)
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I'm sorry, but my support experiences have been less than stellar. I'm still waiting on a response to a support ticket that I replied to many weeks ago.
I'm not sure why people keep mentioning price. You obviously are just raising your pitchforks in support, not reading what was written. Me paying $30/year for subscriptions would probably end up being more than what I'd pay under the current model.
And continued excuses that "o/s and api changes are inevitable" is true but avoids the point that 1password could have maintained support, but for whatever reason (i must assume commercial), it was decided not to.
Anyway, I'm just sounding like a broken record and not adding anything new to this conversation. The supporters of AgileBits have made up their mind. And it seems AgileBits has too. And my pov has no support. Shame.
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I'm not sure why people keep mentioning price.
Because your posts seemed to be objecting to the upgrade prices as in "… bitten by purchasing …" and suggesting alternative pricing models.
You obviously are just raising your pitchforks in support, not reading what was written.
On the contrary, I read what you wrote very closely. I just don't agree with any of it whilst respecting your right to a different opinion.
I responded because I don't want Agilebits to go down the subscription route or waste resources on continued development of obsolete versions. I most certainly didn't respond out of some blind loyalty to Agilebits as you suggest.
And continued excuses that "o/s and api changes are inevitable" is true but avoids the point that 1password could have maintained support, but for whatever reason (i must assume commercial), it was decided not to.
1Password 3 was superseded two years ago. I think your position of expecting active development of software that is two major versions behind the current release is unreasonable.
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Hi @typerlc
You mentioned waiting for a response to a support ticket. I'll investigate if you could supply the ticket ID. I searched for the email address you have registered here in the forums but it didn't result in any tickets, opened or closed.
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You mentioned waiting for a response to a support ticket. I'll investigate if you could supply the ticket ID. I searched for the email address you have registered here in the forums but it didn't result in any tickets, opened or closed.
TEZ-97196-666
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Hi @typerlc
Thank you, that helped identify the ticket. According to our records, you last replied on the 2nd of November and we then responded the next day on the 3rd. That was the last contact between yourself and us. At that point in time we requested details to locate your purchase as we couldn't find one based on the email address you were using.
I see you use a different email address here on the forums and this one does connect to a purchase made in 2011. With this knowledge we'll be able to continue the conversation.
ref: TEZ-97196-666
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