Feature requests and pointing out some general shortcomings of 1password...

ericjarvies

Shortcomings(list of things that 1password 'should' do):

1. Right-click on ITEM and select contextual menu CHANGE CATEGORY to change the category of a given item. Whilst CONVERT TO LOGIN works fine for items in the PASSWORDS CATEGORY, there are times(enough to warrant inclusion of this feature imo) when items simply need to be recategorized easily & quickly. User should also be able to simply DRAG an ITEM(or ITEMS) atop the respective CATEGORY they wish to change the ITEM to.

2. SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, PASSPORTS, DRIVERS LICENSES and CREDIT CARDS should provide user with the ability to load jpg/png attachments that represent the FRONT and BACK and PAGES(useful for passports or booklet type issuances) of said items. When registering for digital currency exchange services/websites, such items are required as per their KYC(Know Your Customer), and the same applies when registering EIDs, bank accounts, etc. Instead of simply displaying said attachments in current list form, these should actually be displayed for the user so s/he can view/inspect the scans/photos of their respective IDs.

3. Add WILLS, CONTRACTS, INSURANCE, ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION, SHARES, TOKENS, TITLES, TRUSTS, SAFETY DEPOSIT BOXES, PERMITS(e.g.- FIREARM), REPORTS(e.g.- CREDIT), STATEMENTS(e.g.- BANK), REGISTRATIONS(e.g.- EID, MSB, etc.), UTILITIES(PHONE, ELECTRIC, GAS, etc.), WALLETS(for cryptocurrencies, e.g.- private/public keys, pass phrases, wallet.dat attachments, etc.), OPENIDs, and so on. Like item #3, attachments should display at least thumbnails, and if PDFs are attached, should display all the pages.

4. IDENTITIES is currently listed as a CATEGORY, but this is not the right place for it. Instead, IDENTITIES should be directly below ALL ITEMS and FAVORITES, as its own section. When installing 1password for the first time, the user should be instructed to create his/her first IDENTITY, else the app simply creates a DEFAULT IDENTITY. The user should be able to create multiple IDENTITIES, e.g.-

   • ALL ITEMS

   • FAVORITES

   • JOE BLOW <<-- so this would the primary(legal) identity

   • ALTER EGO <<-- this would be a secret handle for special/specific use case scenario(anonymous/pseudonym/whatever)
   • ABC ENTERPRISES <<-- perhaps one owns a company
   • WORK <<-- perhaps the employer I work for
   • DAUGHTER/SON NAME <<-- keeping track of all(most) of their info until they are old enough to do it themselves
   • SPOUSE NAME <<-- just in case she dies, I'll be able to login to her Facebook account
   • EMPLOYEE NAME <<-- details specific to said employee, such as all of the user names and password I've entrusted to him/her
   • ETC.

5. USER NAMES and EMAIL ADDRESSES. Just as important as are individual/separate IDENTITIES, so are USER NAMES and EMAIL ADDRESSES, in that when people have multiples of each, they typically need to make sure to keep the right USER NAMES/EMAIL ADDRESSES associated with the right IDENTITY, and so when a user creates a new ITEM, s/he should then be able to select the IDENTITY at which point the respective USER NAMES and/or EMAIL ADDRESSES are displayed that are associated with said IDENTITY so the user may select which one to use specifically(should also offer USER NAMES/EMAIL ADDRESSES that belong to other IDENTITIES, but those should be grey/italicized and if user selects one of those then 1password should warn the user that that USER NAME/EMAIL ADDRESS is associated with another IDENTITY... are you sure you want to use it? Also, 1password should display alerts/warnings denoting USER NAMES/EMAIL ADDRESSES that are associated with ITEMS belonging to an IDENTITY that typically does not use said USER NAME/EMAIL ADDRESS, again, to make the user aware of it in case it was accidentally used, or if it was purposefully used then the user knows about it because it is displayed differently.

6. Regarding WALLETS as mentioned in the above item #3, this category should have sub-categories that list all of the digital currencies so users can keep track of what coins/tokens/etc. they buy/sell/trade. Need to be able to store wallet.dat backups, public/private key pairs, PAY/EARN and BUY/SELL addresses, and so forth. Also, need to be able to add CONTACTS so that one can keep track of other people's ADDRESSES(e.g.- 1ETNJRHz4LWcrNeNzG3NWBwfxkRhu8UQXP) for sending them Bitcoins or whatever. And, need to be able to add QR codes where the QR codes are VISIBLE so users can easily snap photos with their iPhones or whatever.

7. For any/all ITEMS, especially LOGINS, need to have a more logical and manageable organizational process that more easily allows users the ability to group websites together. For example, the most common usage is evidenced here in this forum... this is a 1password forum, yet, it requires a separate user name/password then the main 1password website, thus, sub-categories should be offered the user such as:

   • MAIN
   • FORUM
   • SUPPORT/TICKETING
   • REPOSITORY(e.g.- source code at GITHUB, SOURCEFORGE, etc.)
   • API
   • OAUTH2
   • ETC.
     These particular logins should all be grouped under the MAIN login, so the user knows what s/he has already registered. When ITEMS are added to LOGINS CATEGORY, 1password should denote their type... if they are a BLOG, FORUM, etc. type site, they should be denoted as such, and if 1password does not know, then the user can flag it as such.

8. RIGHT-CLICK to PRINT SELECTED ITEMS. At present time one can only select/print one ITEM via RIGHT-CLICK and selecting SHARE -> PRINT contextual menu, but this only prints one ITEM, even if multiple ITEMS are selected. When using FILE -> PRINT one can only print the entire list, and if user selects just to print x page or pages 1 to 5 for example, then the user ends up with either more or less then 5 ITEMS depending how much content each of those ITEMS has, instead of printing only one ITEM per page for example. Also, FILE -> PRINT orders up the list in a way that it is not possible to select a handful os specific ITEMS that may be in different CATEGORIES and begin with different letters(I believe 1password orders up printing by A-Z).

9. 1password should work with GRAVATAR as it relates to IDENTITIES. Also, as per the above item #6, CONTACTS should also pull GRAVATAR photos for those whom have them.

10. Need to properly handle LOGINS specific to OpenID, Facebook, Google, Twitter, Reddit, Github, Flickr, Steam, Technorati, Wordpress, Blogger, LiveJournal, Verisign, and any/all other OpenIDs. Users should be able to add all of their OpenID ITEMS to 1password and so they are in the OpenID CATEGORY, and when users enter Facebook ITEMS 1password should automatically put them into the OpenID CATEGORY and specially style the ITEM(color/bold/italic/icon/whatever). Then, when users add new ITEMS for websites that offer logging in using OpenIDs, 1password should offer them their list of available OpenID credentials, and upon selecting the ITEM should of course go into the LOGINS CATEGORY but these items should be specially denoted in that they use credentials from an OpenID ITEM in the OPENIDs CATEGORY. ITEMS in the OPENIDs CATEGORY should list these LOGINS as SUB ITEMS, so when viewing for example Facebook under OPENIDs CATEGORY, one will also be able to see all third party websites that are using this Facebook account credentials.

11. TEMPLATES. User should be able to create TEMPLATES for each CATEGORY, where the user can order the line items exactly as s/he wants them. Right now I have so many different layouts for each of the ~1000 ITEMS I have, that it gets to be troublesome at times. It would just be nice(easy) to know that ITEMS with CATEGORIES all are adhering to a logical row flow, wherein the only time there are devotions is when one ITEM contains extra ROWS(FIELDS) that the user added custom, otherwise one can always depend on the ROW ordering of specific FIELDS(e.g.- USERNAME, PASSWORD, PASS PHRASE, etc.).

12. 2-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION. Need to add the ability to denote secondary authentication for LOGINS, and select between EMAIL, SMS, VOICE. User should just be able to select a 2-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION YES/NO? IF YES is selected then the user is given EMAIL/SMS/VOICE and upon selection, then enters whatever address/telephone applies. User should also be able to add additional entries because often times a user will have EMAIL and SMS and will switch between the two on a given site.

13. As it relates to the PASSPORT, DRIVERS LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY, STATEMENTS, UTILITIES, and the other CATEGORY suggestions mentioned above, each ITEM such as i the LOGINS CATEGORY should be able to easily have those associated, so if a user sets up an account with a Bitcoin exchange, he can denote/list all items that the exchange requited during signup and verification, and so it would also be good if such things can be grouped by VERIFICATION LEVEL 1, VERIFICATION LEVEL 2, VERIFICATION LEVEL 3, and so forth, as this is typically standard with financial type sites/registrations/logins.

Regards,

Eric Jarvies

ericjarvies

1. Considering many/most of the above suggestions, it would be nice if I could check out how many BLOGS I am signed up with, or how many FORUMS, or, how many websites(e.g.- agilebits.com) are in my list where I have multiple/different login accounts for essentially the same company/person/offering. I know this can be achieved using FLAGs currently, but lacking many of the above mentioned options, such flagging is at the moment limited.

I wish I could continue, because I do have more suggestions, but I've run out of time and must attend to other affairs. If the developers simply spend the day using 1password, going and signing up for some new websites/services that include multiple sites/types(MAIN/FORUM/BLOG/SOURCE CODE/etc.) and that use OpenID and that use 2-Factor Authentication(EMAIL/SMS/VOICE), and that have downloadable software(SOFTWARE LICENSES), and that have QR codes, public keys(strings), and on and on, they will quickly realize that 1password has fallen behind in terms of what is really needed today as it relates to registering with online services and what the user needs to require(proof of this or that, e.g.- PASSPORT/DRIVERS LICENSE/UTILITY BILL/ETC.) and what the user needs to maintain in terms of information from/for the respective website(s). Other topics I did not mention in this post, such as would include EMAIL ACCOUNTS, DATABASES, SERVERS, etc., those ITEMS really need to be made more conducive to REAL WORLD scenarios, meaning most people use DigitalOcean, AWS, and various others VPS hosts, each wit their own very specific sets of user information, which should be mirrored in 1password, as should all the flavors of VIRTUAL PC software(such as VIRTUALBOX, PARALLELS, VMWARE, etc.), as are the typical flavors of OS X SSH compared to Windows SSH apps/user settings. Most everyone uses the top 5 or 10 product/service offerings available, so at minimum 1password should close these and make ITEM entries match these services, so the user is dealing with the same verbiage on both the external service and within 1password, making it always FAMILIAR. Also need to address TOR in relationship to 1password so TOR happenings are easily added as ITEMS in 1password, and ENCRYPTION(such as being able to backup Keys from the likes of GPG Keychain, etc. Other categories like VOIP and IM need to be addressed nicely within 1password, and being able to easily add SSH, FTP, SFTP type accounts against the same ITEM entry... again, 1password should mirror what MOST users are doing in real life on their computers against other websites, softwares, services, protocols, and their respective standards/user acceptable/accepted familiarities.

In closing, sorry if there are spelling and grammar errors, I do not have time to read over it, but will come back later and do so then, or when someone replies to this thread. I did just notice that the above post screwed up my numbering(bullets), and of course did not allow me to post this entire text into one single submission(arg). Anyways, until then, thanks for reading this, and I hope some of it makes sense.

Otherwise, I've been a consistent 1password user for many years now, and I appreciate your constant development efforts, enhancements, upgrades, and customer service... but I think its time to turn things up and make this password app really and truly facilitate today's normal, medium, and heavy users in such a way that they are actually able to keep their hundreds or thousands of ITEMS organized and RELATIONAL at a glance(or with a click of a tag/button) and mirroring as close as possible the services/things we all use most, in that when I add a server ITEM to 1password, the moment I enter/select DigitalOcean, 1password is on top of it, and provides me with EVERYTHING that DigitalOcean ocean requires of me in terms of login and settings information, so that my ITEM in 1password is SPOT-ON and EASY.

Eric

richardfromamsterdam

Hello Eric,

good job of making an almost functional specs for the guys to get working on :-)
i am new to 1P, but already ran into some of the issues you described, and some of the things i would really appreciate to be able to do

is there a roadmap where users can see what's planned for upcoming releases?
or even better .. maybe the kind people of agilebits can provide a mechanisme where users can vote for specific features they would like to be added?
more votes, quicker development.

Richard

ericjarvies

Hello Richard,

I should have gone to sleep a few hours ago, so suffice it to say the above post was hastily written by a groggy man, containing more blabber then it should, so to that end I apologize. Otherwise, I appreciate the acknowledgement :D

This is actually my first post here at agilebits about 1password, although I've been using the software for a long time, and my 1password ITEM entry under SOFTWARE LICENSES indicate my first license was version 2, but I believe I had started using it when it was version 1. 1password and LittleSnitch are likely the two applications I use most day-in and day-out... apart from the usual suspects Mail and Safari, followed by my work/personal related applications. The reason I posted this morning is because recently I upgraded the CPUs in my Mac Pro, along with adding a ~1TB PCIe memory card, which I installed a fresh OS X onto, and so I've spent the last month installing all of my normal softwares, and ran into licensing problems with 1password. For some reason I did not have the .license file for version 5, and when I requested my license information from support, it kept returning two version 3 licenses but no version 5, so I became frustrated and hollered out to support, and when they responded they indicated that I had two accounts, and they merged them, and sent me a new version 5 license, and all was good again(for me). However, I still remained frustrated because I have kept my 1password file stored on Dropbox for a long time, and after having made backups and restores over the years, a number of things have happened, such as file attachments disappearing(e.g.- .license files). Back in earlier versions 1password treated its own .license file like any other attachment, whereas now the software recognizes it, and it creates a new ITEM upon adding the license. Anyways, whilst I do indeed appreciate this, there are things that frustrate me, for example in creating the new ITEM it did not take into account the time/date stamped info from the existing item(I already had an ITEM under SOFTWARE LICENSES for 1password), so I ended up with two entries. Normally I would want to keep the existing item because of the time/date stamps, but for some reason my existing 1password ITEM was showing a date of Dec 31 1969, which of course is not correct, and seeing as how the user cannot edit/change those CREATED and LAST MODIFIED fields, it was not an error caused by me, so it occurred during upgrading or restoring from backup but not sure which... I've not restored from a backup for a long time as the archive sits on my Dropbox, so I really can't say when/how the time/date stamp problems occurred. The same is true for file attachments disappearing, but these are things I've just happened to notice, and haven't ever spent the time to try to figure out why the problem is occurring.

In spite of my above complaints and feature suggestions, I truly appreciate 1password, and thus I appreciate the developers, because 1password is a software I simply could not do without. Yes, there are other like type softwares available, but its been years since I've downloaded and used any of them, and up and until recently I've really had no reason to look elsewhere because I've been a satisfied customer for the most part. However, after having applied some thought to the matter the past few days, recalling the previous versions and trying to remember the change logs from one minor version not the next, and one major version to the next, I feel like some obvious features and functionality have been overlooked, even though they've been consistently cranking out new releases(stomping bugs and changing UI).

I feel like there are many things they are not recognizing from a end user point of view as is evidenced in their updates. The whole affair of keeping and managing passwords, software licenses, and other vital and often reused information, is in large part the same for everyone, and involves websites, emails, accounts, and a historical ledger of the various happenings that occur between subscriber/licensee and service provider/licensor. In ALL cases this is dictated by the actual service providers both individually and collectively in each their own segment of the market, and of course the entire market has influence, and so in my opinion a password/license/vital information application like 1password should be focussed on the above market driven processes when figuring out what features could and should be added to their software.

For example; at this stage in the game, 1password should not only auto-add an ITEM in the SOFTWARE LICENSES category with their .license file attached, but it should check to see if there is already an existing ITEM, and if so it should add the license to it. Furthermore, that ITEM should contain all the relevant time/date stamps that represent when I first purchased it, how much I paid, and each subsequent upgrade along with their amounts and time/date stamps, each version number that I've installed, and what version of OS X was running at each of those times, and on and on. With this latest .license file, 1password did indeed write new info into some of the fields, but unfortunately I have no historical information at all now. When I spend money on upgrades, I always like to look back on what I've spent, when I spent, and what the reason was for spending it. Another case in point is that 1password should definitely be working with the CONTACTS and MAIL apps on OS X, and should have integration with all the main subscription sites(Google, Facebook, etc.). In the case of Mail integration, 1password should be able to pull in all of the agilebits emails as email attachments to the ITEM, and these, alone with 1password versions, and upgrade points(when money was paid to them), should all be on a descending list showing the most recent of actions, including for example, the title and time/date stamp of this message I am currently posting to their forum. If I had all of those little simple pieces of information within my 1password ITEM, then I would only ever need to reference it and it alone in order to ascertain exactly what has happened over the years between me and them. I would like to be able to do this will all of my main softwares, having time/date stamped entries in a main ledger within each ITEM that 'at a glance' tells the story. I can't remember when I started using 1password, but, they could easily write that data into my 1password ITEM and then I'd know.

Continued on next post...

ericjarvies

Right now all web browsers have the ability to store info for the purposes of AutoFill, including contacts, user names & passwords, credit cards, forms, and attachments, along with bookmarks and the ability to set notifications and what have you. So, what compels a user to migrate to a product like 1password? Back when I started using 1password, web browsers did not have the aforementioned features built into them, so this was one of my reasons. As I recall, early versions of 1password did not have SOFTWARE LICENSES category and I am fairly certain I was using another software to handle those, but was glad when they included it. When the iPhone app came out, I of course purchased it, in fact I likely purchased it multiple times, over multiple versions as iPhones and iPads came and went ,and this was a reason why I continued using 1password. Another reason was the inclusion of Dropbox, being able to store the main file/archive on the cloud was a considerable step up from having to use iTunes and codes to sync data to/from the handheld devices and my computers, and of course having an encrypted file/archive was a another good reason why I continued using 1password. Browser integration was yet another good reason to keep using 1password. All in all, the folks at agilebits have in one way or another developed and delivered the things that compelled me to start using it, and to keep using it along the way during each migration/upgrade, and I've imposed it upon dozens of family, friends, and associates over the years, most(perhaps all) of whom are still 1password users to one degree or another. Clearly this speaks volumes about the software... kudos.

Getting back to what compels someone to start using 1password today, when there are now other viable/comparable solutions as it relates to login/password management across multiple devices, such as Keychain and iCloud that essentially provide an integrated solution to millions of iPhone/iPad/iPod/Mac users out of the box, or some of the smaller offerings that perhaps have more UI sex appeal in some aspects such as oneSafe, or, as mentioned earlier just the built-in features found in browsers that can also work across multiple devices on the cloud. Why did you start using 1password Richard? Or anyone else who is a recent new user of 1password... what are your reasons?

I use 1password because I am so damned familiar with it after having used for so long, but it is missing a considerable amount of features that have become absolutely increasingly necessary over the past couple of years as per computer and internet usage requirements that are dictated by what is common and popular these days.

Continued on next post...

ericjarvies

In my initial post, I listed a number of feature requests, but that list was far from complete. Let's take specific services that many users use... including the 1password app itself, referring to Dropbox. I personally have a number of Dropbox accounts, yet, in the 1password app I do not have a CATEGORY for cloud storage, one that accounts for the major cloud storage offerings on the market today, including Dropbox, Google Drive, Amazon Cloud Drive, iCloud, BitCasa, Box, iDrive, oneDrive, etc. 1password should absolute have a dedicated category for subscription cloud storage, and should use each of their APIs as a means of providing the user(me) with all the info I need on those accounts right inside of 1password. I can look at my 4 Dropboxes and see that Dropbox #1 has 1TB with 500MG used, I can rename it if I like, have all the pertinent info about the account such as when I setup it up, when my bill is next due, and of course my user name and password. Then, you have the whole other cloud storage category, wherein you share your own storage(e.g.- QNAP device) with services such as symform, elephantDrive, Amazon S3, and so forth... this too is a CATEGORY. Then you have the latest iteration which combines the latter with the blockchain. These are all services that people use, and all of these services have simple and straight forward APIs that would make connecting to extremely easy/simply within the 1password app. Right now, I must add Dropbox etc. to the LOGINS category, and then must put in all of its information manually... whereas I should select it from a list, enter my user name and password, and a Dropbox dialog appears asking me to authorize 1password, and after clicking yes 1password populates that ITEM will all the pertinent information about that account, wherein it creates a browser login so if I access Dropbox using a Browser, 1password will do what it always does.. offer to log you in, but that same ITEM will also contain the ability to edit the photo, or rename the Dropbox, or select which networks collaborate with Dropbox(e.g.- Facebook, Twitter, etc.), and displays authorized devices, and so on. I should be able to manage all of my Dropboxes and Drives within 1password, which is where all of my sensitive and crucial information 'should' be stored and managed.

EMAIL ACCOUNTS is another odd-ball CATEGORY that does not account for the true nature of EMAIL ACCOUNTS. For example, why is there a need to have a LOGINS ITEM for Gmail as well as having and EMAIL ACCOUNTS ITEM for Gmail SMTP/IMAP info? This type of ITEM should be custom fitted specifically for Gmail as it relates to the real world.. people logging in using their browser and people logging in using an email client. Add Yahoo, MS, Apple, and the others to the list. One ITEM within 1password should have the structure/capability to facilitate the multiple points of entry that an email account may have, like with the above example. Also, 1password, like Google, should be able to CREATE new email accounts with the Mail app, buy simply initiating it from within 1password.

TELEPHONE NUMBERS. All ITEMS that have telephones should at least be clickable to initiate a call using Skype or whatever app the user is using. Same thing applies to EMAIL ADDRESSES... right now one can only COPY this info, but one should be able to click to call or click to email.

SUBSCRIPTIONS and LICENSES EXPIRATION DATES(anything that has EXP dates, including DRIVERS LICENSES, PASSPORTS, etc.). At minimum, user should be able to see what services or issuances are coming due for payment/renewal, as most users usually have at least a handful of ITEMS(user names/passwords) that are time/date expiration based.

ENCRYPTION. There is no place to CATEGORIZE and properly/easily manage and STORE keys(e.g.- GPG_key.asc). How nice it would be to be able to drag and drop encrypted emails from the Mail app into the 1password app atop a given key ITEM, wherein said messages are then stored and kept linked to that active or expired or revoked key.

WALLETS. Cryptocurrencies abound with over ~700 of them in existence, and at present time I've not place in 1password to store all of my secret/private keys/pass phrases. It would be nice if 1password handled this new generation of websites and credentials, wherein an ITEM in the LOGINS could be created that not only have the usual user name and password info, but also the secondary authentication(2-factor) in each or all forms(EMAIL, SMS, VOICE), and also taking into account when one uses an OpenID(e.g.- Facebook account) instead of creating a user account with said service. These browser-based wallets at the various exchanges are either service tied/controlled(wallet resides on server) or are purely client(nothing stored on the server), in which case 1password should offer the user the ability to handle/save/store these easily, and in the case of hot wallets(that reside on the server), most of those services provide backing-up of said wallets, in which case once again it'd be nice if 1password could handle those. Keeping track of wallets that have value in them(e.g.- BTC, LTC, etc.) is extremely difficult when one has many of them, not to mention all the other wallets one may have that might not have any value in them, but need to be maintained none the less. I most certainly would have no objections if 1password itself had the ability to create new wallets which the user could then use/populate with cryptocurrency(send/receive), but at minim needs to be able to store existing wallets and key pairs/pass phrases. In addition to CRYPTOCURRENCIES there are TOKENS and SHARES(DIVIDENDS) and CONTRACTS and ESCROWS and BETS that need to be stored/managed. All of these are just text files(encrypted), and to tie into the blockchain is a piece of cake(almost everyone has an API), so 1password could/should not only store/safe house them and their secret passwords/pass phrases/etc., but 1password should also display their values.

Anyways :-)

Eric

rickfillion

Hi @ericjarvies‌,

I'm speechless. What an amazing critique. I found myself nodding in agreement a lot while reading this. There's a ton of great ideas here. I know that we have some things planned coming down the pipe that will address some of these ideas. I'm not allowed to say which though... as we don't usually talk about new features until they're available in betas.

I plan on sharing this forum thread with as many co-workers as I can find.

Rick

ericjarvies

Thanks for the acknowledgement Rick. One of those late night unfiltered ramblings... the kind you don't want to go back read :)

Of course, I will be appreciate any and all viable features that make through the actual pipe, whatever those may be.

Eric

Esther

I am new to 1Password and still on the fence as to if/when I take the leap of faith and convert to using it. I currently use Dropbox (free) for my cloud storage and was concerned about the storage available to use with 1Password. I have just recently signed up and am using Amazon Prime Cloud Drive and was looking for feed back as to if 1Password would offer it as an alternative to Dropbox because I have 5GB of free storage rather than the 2GB with Dropbox. Sounds like Eric has given you a lot to think about! Will keep watch for options to develop!

hawkmoth

@Esther - Your free allocation from Dropbox should handle your sync needs with 1Password unless you attach many files to your records and/or have lots of other things stored at Dropbox that uses up your allocation. For some sense of scale, I have more than 300 items in 1Password, and that consumes 6.9 MB of my Dropbox allocation, a very small fraction of the 2 GB free allocation. I have attachments for pictures of my passport and my driver license, but none otherwise.

You won't be able to use Amazon Prime Cloud Drive. The only cloud based syncing services for 1Password are Dropbox and iCloud. And iCloud is only available if you purchase your licenses from Apple through their App Stores. Apple has closed off access to iCloud for applications not sold by them.

ericjarvies

@Esther - Mine own 1password 1Password.agilekeychain vault file on Dropbox is 19.3mb, and this represents about ~700 items, so attachments aside you'll likely consume ~+1mb for every 50 items you add to your vault.

Apart from having a centralized warehouse containing all of your user names and passwords, the best reason to 'convert to using it' is in being able to quickly login to websites without having to apply much thought or effort to the matter, an exercise that literally only requires 2 mouse clicks -assuming you've already an item entry in 1password for said website and are using 1password via a browser extension. What makes this the best reason to use 1password imo is that the user can stop using their familiar(remembered) password and start using individually unique passwords with each and every site.

Most users tend to use the same password across many/most/all of their websites (e.g.- username1234), wherein the exception to this is when the website requires CaPs (e.g.- Username1234) or some special character$ (e.g.- username1234$) -or a combination thereof (e.g.- Username1234$). When a user is not already using a password management application like 1password, they've no doubt suffered the experience of not being able to login to a website that they've previously signed-up for that at that time required CaPs or special character$, which they had to append to their favorite and memorable password at that time, but since then forgot exactly what CaPs or special character$ they actually added. So when they try to use username1234 and it fails, they typically and almost immediately resort to a password recovery process (clicking the link 'Forget your password?') which in effect begins the entire painstaking process all over again.

Reusing passwords across different websites -or on two or more of any external credential based service- is of course not a good thing, and even if the user somewhat knows this or in fact does know this, out of habit and convenience they tend to just reuse their familiar password as to avoid the known hassles they've previously had to experience and endure.

And so, in mine own opinion, the best reason to use 1password is of course having this painless and near immediate 2 mouse click process on username & password type websites, but not merely because it is immediate and painless, but because I do not need to remember what the password is, and in not needing to remember the password, I can then use any password, which means I can use extremely strong passwords, and can use different strong passwords for each and every website.

But alas, as seemingly obvious as the above mentioned is, I've had to constantly (and recently) inform and instruct family, friends, acquaintances, and associates whom are users of 1password how to do this... and why they need to do it. Admittedly, I too still have several dozens of items in mine own vault that represent the same old single and familiar password that I once used across many a website, and have yet to spend the time to change those, even though I know I need to, and this is the common thread amongst most everyone in my opinion as it relates to passwords... it is a downright pain in the butt changing passwords due to the various steps that are involved with each individual remote third party website/service... some being much more painful then others.

But for new users of 1password, or existing users of 1password like myself, there is NO GOOD REASON to use your old and familiar and memorable password(s) when setting up your credentials on a newly discovered website/service! Using 1password's Password Generator or randomly typing your own long and complex password is what users should always do when creating new credentials, because after all you are using a password application whose purpose is to remember these individual passwords for you, wherein your only obligation is to remember the one single master password that unlocks your vault and provides you access to all the individual passwords, hence the apt name of 1password.

Megan

Hi @Esther,

I hope that Hawkmoth and Eric's posts have been helpful for you here. I couldn't really say it much better. If you do have any further questions or concerns, please let us know - we're here to help!

And @ericjarvies‌

Once again, thanks for a brilliant post! I want to take the time to read it properly and respond in a bit more detail, but for now, we really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts here.

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This post is being moved to the Lounge so that we can better continue this conversation.

RichardPayne

Jesus, and I thought my posts were long! :anguished:

Megan

Hi @RichardPayne,

What can I say - we have some amazingly passionate users! You all rock. :)

ericjarvies

Functional nuances as it relates to vaults;

1. 1Password mini - Kill it if you can! I think for the average non technical users, one needs to be able to kill an app if they need/want to. I have no problems with self spawning apps providing there is someway and somehow to turn them off/kill them. But when this option is not afforded, it is seemingly nefarious behavior by/of/from the maker, even if it is only sloppiness or oversight.

2. Primary vaults & subsequent vaults are not created equal... but should be! Primary vaults adopt/adapt/assume the behavior of the app, where subsequent vaults do not. This creates all kinds of problems. Primary vaults should not be distinguishable from subsequent vaults, in that they are hip-joined to the app.

3. When creating vaults -be they Primary or subsequent- data is written to the Application Support folder. Data should always be written into vaults, and vaults should be created by the user from the get-go(designating vault server/folder location and vault name), and the app should not create some other copy for the purposes of convenience.

4. When user goes to Preferences -> Sync and selects Dropbox, the app creates 1Password.agilekeychain against a vault named Primary, should use the vault's actual name, as is the case with subsequently created vaults, and this ties into #2.

5. Backups should be per vault, and not vaults grouped into one backup. Vaults should be self-contained/isolated from the others, just as all vaults should be separate from the app itself.

6. If .agilekeychain files are deleted(via Finder from a folder -not from within the app), the VAULTS continue working within 1password. Secondary VAULTS will throw an error(Problem detected), otherwise they'll both function fine as though their vault file was not even deleted.

7. Again, like #6, if you delete vault from app via Preferences -> Sync -> Change Syncing -> Disable Sync -> Delete data from Dropbox, it doesn't matter because everything will remain in 1password(stored in Application Support/ folder).

Eric

rickfillion

Hi @ericjarvies‌,

Let's see if I can address these point by point.

1. 1Password mini. I understand what you're saying here. Unfortunately we need an ever-present process for the browser extensions to communicate with. The alternative is to have each browser extension have the ability/responsibility to be full 1Password apps that read/write to the database independently. This is how 1Password browser extensions used to work, and I don't see us going back to that model. As a user you can choose to not have the mini running, which stops the extensions from working.
2. Primary vs Secondary vaults. Agreed. The good news here is that these limitations are really just at the interface level these days. From the backend they're all the same now. This should get better in future releases.
3. Why do we have our own internal db on top of AgileKeychains? I can understand why you'd want this. 1Password 3 mostly worked like that, and 1Password for Windows still works like that. This is incredibly limiting though, and there are features we can't bring to Windows because of this model. From a usability perspective, if you look at a platform like iOS, where filesystems aren't really a user-visible thing, you have to store that data for them somewhere. On the Mac it's essentially the same thing, assuming the user doesn't want to sync. The user doesn't want to be bothered with having to tell an app where to store their data. Power users do, but most users don't. If all a user wants to do is add password items then sync via iCloud, there's really no reason they should ever need to manage any kind of file. We can take that responsibility.
4. Naming of agilekeychains for primary vaults. Agreed. Especially since it's in a directory named 1Password already. This may be like that for historical reasons, but it'd be nice for us to make that better.
5. Backups per vault. I agree, but I don't think it requires #3 to be achieved. We could certainly do this while still maintaining our own database, it's just a little trickier.
6. Deleting agilekeychain doesn't delete vault. Right, this is expected, and one of the benefits to having a copy of the data in our own database. The agilekeychain is just a sync conduit. By deleting the sync conduit, you disconnect sync, but the data we have is still good. We see this as a benefit to users.
7. Disabling Sync + Deleting Agilekeychain doesn't delete vault. Just like #6 on our side, we see it as a benefit. Local data vs sync data is separate.

We could certainly make the interface clearer in a lot of ways to help differentiate local data vs sync data. Especially since you can add a vault by double clicking on an agilekeychain. The impression the user gets there is that they're just viewing the agilekeychain data, and that's not the case. We want to make stuff like that clearer. But I don't see us going back to not having our own database outside of the sync data.

I love reading your critiques. You articulate your views very clearly. Keep them coming! :smile:

Rick

DBrown

Just a few clarifications, since Rick mentioned 1Password for Windows.

1Password for Windows already works this way. It doesn't include the concept of primary and secondary vaults. Each vault stands alone and must be opened individually and unlocked with its own master password.

I can't think what features are missing from 1Password for Windows as a result of the different strategy—other than the ability to open all your vaults with a single master password, of course—so I don't agree that it's incredibly limiting. As far as I can tell, it's just different.

A benefit of having an internal database is that, if anything goes wrong with the sync, it's useful to be able to delete that "sync point" and restart syncing to create a new one. You can't do that if your data is only in 1Password for Windows, because deleting the .agilekeychain folder deletes the vault.

1Password for Windows does work this way. Note that only the current (i.e., the most recently opened) vault is backed up automatically.

Again, 1Password for Windows does not have an internal database—the .agilekeychain folder is the vault, so deleting the .agilekeychain folder deletes the vault, though you should be able to restore some or all of the data from a recent backup of that vault.

There's also no "enabling" or "disabling" of sync in 1Password for Windows. The .agilekeychain folder is synced by virtue of its storage location. For example, if it's anywhere in your local Dropbox folder hierarchy, it's synced automatically; otherwise, it's not synced automatically.

ericjarvies

1Password mini - Yes, I understand the importance of it running, my complaint is when I need to turn it off and I can't. Perhaps I've missed a setting? It seems after 1password is launched with 'Always keep 1Password mini running' there is no way for me to kill it, even if I uncheck it in settings... the app does not stop when 1Password is closed.

Primary vs Secondary vaults - This will be much appreciated when a vault is a vault is a vault.

Vaults not deleting - Perhaps 1password should at least tell the user that his/her vault is not really getting deleted when the user deletes the .agilekeychain file/folder? I have no objections to the use of internal dB, just make sure the user knows this, and can act on it.

Thank you for your responses Rick.

Eric

chrisdj

@ericjarvies‌:

1Password mini - Yes, I understand the importance of it running, my complaint is when I need to turn it off and I can't. Perhaps I've missed a setting? It seems after 1password is launched with 'Always keep 1Password mini running' there is no way for me to kill it, even if I uncheck it in settings... the app does not stop when 1Password is closed.

Ah, this is a bit of a hidden feature, but if you open the main app, click the 1Password menu, then hold down the control key, you will see Quit 1Password become Quit 1Password and 1Password mini. Alternately, you can press control-command-Q to accomplish he same task. To relaunch 1Password mini, simply relaunch the main app.

RichardPayne

Primary vs Secondary vaults - This will be much appreciated when a vault is a vault is a vault.

Come over to Windows where you can enter vault passwords repeatedly all day. :(

Ah, this is a bit of a hidden feature, but if you open the main app, click the 1Password menu, then hold down the control key, you will see Quit 1Password become Quit 1Password and 1Password mini

@svondutch any chance of something similar in Windows? At the moment, killing the helper requires task manager.

@ericjarvies‌

Vaults not deleting - Perhaps 1password should at least tell the user that his/her vault is not really getting deleted when the user deletes the .agilekeychain file/folder? I have no objections to the use of internal dB, just make sure the user knows this, and can act on it.

If you're deleting the keychain from the OS then how would 1Password know about it?

svondutch

Functional nuances as it relates to vaults

@ericjarvies‌ Starting with point #2, the model you describe is the model we have in 1Password for Windows. A vault is a vault. Backed up individually. Delete is delete. There are no other copies.

this is a bit of a hidden feature, but if you open the main app, click the 1Password menu, then hold down the control key, you will see Quit 1Password become Quit 1Password and 1Password mini

any chance of something similar in Windows?

@RichardPayne Good suggestion. I have added this to my list of things to do.

ericjarvies

@RichardPayne - Is this a rhetorical question? -->> "If you're deleting the keychain from the OS then how would 1Password know about it?" Perhaps I do not understand your question. On OS X when deleting a .agilekeychain file/folder via the Finder(or any app other then 1Password), the vault does not delete from within 1Password, nor any of the items.

ericjarvies

@chrisdj thanks & @svondutch ok.

RichardPayne

@ericjarvies what I was getting at was that I don't know of a way for an app to be notified when a folder is deleted.

chrisdj

@ericjarvies‌ @RichardPayne‌

@RichardPayne - Is this a rhetorical question? -->> "If you're deleting the keychain from the OS then how would 1Password know about it?" Perhaps I do not understand your question. On OS X when deleting a .agilekeychain file/folder via the Finder(or any app other then 1Password), the vault does not delete from within 1Password, nor any of the items.

@ericjarvies what I was getting at was that I don't know of a way for an app to be notified when a folder is deleted.

Richard makes a good point here in that removing an agilekeychain from a sync location like Dropbox (on Mac or iOS) will not remove it from the local sqlite database. It is treated like a sync disconnection rather than a removal of data.

On Windows, 1Password reads/writes directly from the .agilekeychain file/folder. On Mac and iOS, it reads/writes to its .sqlite database that contains all vaults, and syncs the necessary information out to the appropriate .agilekeychain. Hence the Mac has a local data store (sqlite) and a sync data store (agilekeychain), like iOS, as @svondutch mentioned earlier.

In the scenario where a user deletes the agilekeychain from their Dropbox, Mac and Windows will treat this differently based on their designs.

On Windows, if the agilekeychain is removed, it no longer has data to read from, since it reads directly from that file. That said, a typical user has 50+ backups, Dropbox maintains a recoverable history, and the user likely has the data synced to a mobile device. Windows’ more direct approach to the agilekeychain allows for simpler data management. If you want to delete that vault wholesale, it’s easy to do.

The Mac/iOS approach is more complex and has more steps if you want to remove a vault, as you have to remove the sync data and the vault from the sqlite data. Through its complexity, though, there is a side effect that can be beneficial in the instance where the agilekeychain is accidentally deleted, as the local data can rebuild the sync data. It’s like an extra safety net to the backups. But it is more complex for an intentional vault removal.

All that said, it should be easier for a user to manage removing vaults in the local sqlite data store, and I know @rickfillion‌ has plans to address that down the road.

Note: Edited this to more clearly explain the nuances between the Mac/iOS approach and the Windows approach.

RichardPayne

That's not actually what I was getting at. I was talking about the technical difficulty of having 1Password informed that the keychain has been deliberately deleted. It would be quite irritating to delete it by accident, have that mistake auto synced across dropbox and the local databases cleared on all of your devices.

chrisdj

Sorry @RichardPayne, I meant you had a good point about how deleting the sync store doesn't notify and have any effect on the local store. I didn't clarify that well. It made sense in my head! :wink:

This is advantageous for the whole data redundancy part. The sync data disappearing due to a deletion (intentional or accidental) does not cause harm to the local data, ensuring that when you do edit the local data to remove a vault, it is done intentionally. While this may make things slightly more tedious if you have many devices, it makes sure the move is done intentionally, and not accidentally.