Alphabetical Order (automatically) in favourites list

Hi Dave,

as an longtime 1password user, always a pleasure reading your News and Updates !

Beside being a great program family (I use IOS & OSC version), i would like to see some basic enhancements:

  • Alphabetical Order (automatically) in favourites list, if you have more than 200 entires it’s bit hard to find the right one

  • iCloud integration with the Windows Version

And regarding the News and Updates:

  • News & Updates on the encryption technology and why 1password is still secure

Thanks and keep up the good work,
Sascha


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Referrer: forum-search:Hi Dave, as an longtime 1password user, always a pleasure reading your News and Updates ! Beside being a great program family (I use IOS & OSC version), i would like to see some basic enhancements: - Alphabetical Order (automatically) in favourites list, if you have more than 200 entires it’s bit hard to find the right one - iCloud integration with the Windows Version And regarding the News and Updates: - News & Updates on the encryption technology and why 1password is still secure Thanks and keep up the good work, Sascha

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Alphabetical Order (automatically) in favourites list, if you have more than 200 entires it’s bit hard to find the right one

    @sascha2015: We added manual ordering for Favorites due to popular demand, but we can absolutely consider other sorting options in the future. However, Search is a great help in that regard already, and if you can tell me the OS and 1Password versions you're using I may be able to suggest other options as well!

    iCloud integration with the Windows Version

    This is something we're absolutely interested in. Apple has indicated that they plan to open up CloudKit to other platforms, but currently it is still only available on iOS and OS X. Keep an eye out for news in this area though!

    News & Updates on the encryption technology and why 1password is still secure

    Was there something in particular you're referring to (newsletters, blog posts, etc.), or are you looking for this as a feature within the app itself?

    The short version is that because 1Password relies on time-tested, industry-standard encryption, it would really only be newsworthy if AES (and therefore 1Password) was found to be insecure at some point in the future. But because so many talented, motivated people (black-, white-, and grey-hat) have been hammering on it for so long trying to find a weakness, it's more likely that technology will catch up first, allowing brute-forcing of the crypto...but probably not in my lifetime (though I can't speak to yours). ;)

  • edited September 2015

    Hello brenty,

    thx for fast reply, i appriciate that. Regarding the points:

    • Alphabetical Order: Please consider fast, since i found other several request (one from 2009) wich also whishes an automatic alphabeitacal order. Of course i am using the newest versions. If a am not worg alll other list have an Alphabetical Order...

    • iCloud: Great let' see how it works out with the folks of Apple...

    • News & Updates: What i meant was that in ourdays regarding the discussions around encryption and Data Privacy there's a lot of statements... And if i talk to people who do not use password DB's like 1 password the first question is: Is this really secure ? So what i suggest is frome time to time updates whats new on in this area and 1password's view on this matter... (Beside being updated by Dave wich season we have ;-)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Any time! Just keep in mind that every feature request has to compete will all the others, and obviously we can't (and won't, and shouldn't) implement every feature that is requested. But we can consider adding different sorting options to Favorites in the future.

    We also have a great deal of information on the security of 1Password in our knowledgebase, which we continue to update over time; but we also create blog posts semi-regularly (less fatiguing than newsletters). Thanks again for the feedback! :)

  • edited September 2015

    Hello Brenty,
    sorry but all respect but this answer regarding aplphabetical order is not sufficient. Reasons:

    • The request is a nobrainer. All other lists are alphabetical so why not the favourit list (wich intended to be used at the first place) ?
    • More worse this is major design flaw wich shows that only technical oriented guys working on that program. From their perspective is this problem 4711 in the queue. Ask a ergonomic oriented tester and he will have it in his top ten list of changes. Simply because its totally annoying when searching through the list. Do you want to have annoyed customers ?
    • There are several an old requests as mentioned above. If you read the answers the are in essence the same as you gave me (we consider, maybe, in future....). I cannot see the point that this request is that big or cost a lot of effort since all other list have an automatical order.

    Worst of all, you didn't aknowlegde the problem exists, wich shows two things:

    • You know the problem, but it is not important (See second point above)
    • You don't know the problem wich shows that you you didn't recheck if the problem really exists. Maybe i am wrong and there is possiblitly to set an alphabetical order.

    Looking forward for your answer,
    Sascha

  • Greetings @sascha2015,

    I realise it probably is frustrating but unfortunately when it comes to requests we can't make any promises. We record the requests, make sure we're doing so in enough detail and then note interest to help order them. The features basically compete for developer time alongside bugs and all along we can't say if a feature is being worked on or promise that it will appear in a particular version. Even if we test a feature in a beta it isn't a guarantee that it will make it into the next public release. This approach came about after a previous point in in 1Password's history where we made promises about WebDAV. It never did make it due to significant performance and reliability issues and it disappointed a lot of people. AgileBits doesn't want to break promises it has made to the users so we keep everything under wraps now. You could argue being frustrated isn't any better but at least we can't be accused of going back on our word.

    Developer time required is certainly one factor but as you say, on the surface it shouldn't be a massive job. I don't know the code but I would tend to agree, it shouldn't be an extensive task, at least on OS X. Another factor though is popularity, is it something a significant number of our customers are desiring? With 200 favourites I can see why you would want it but how many users are in this position? I genuinely don't know the answer by the way. We're clearly very different users as I have 5. If we assume most users are like me then the request likely wouldn't even occur to them as manual ordering is possibly preferable. If we assume most users are more like you then I'd expect the forums to be a lot more active as manually ordering 200 favourites doesn't seem practical (yes, I fully agree with you). My agreeing with you though doesn't actually improve the chances of it happening as we have to remain objective and we're not allowed to push our own personal preferences.

    Now there isn't any sorting options in iOS at all so it would be quite different compared to 1Password for Mac. It would require implementing sorting in general first as we store the manual ordering of favourites in the vault and sync container and 1Password for iOS simply uses it. Maybe the request changes to a feature that changes the manual ordering based on some criteria i.e. alphabetical although I can imagine people might be annoyed if it was too easy to accidentally do. So then it becomes a request that requires changes on both platforms (with a difference in the size of the task) or we add a way to change the manual ordering but then need to consider safeguards. I say this as I'm guessing the issue is greater on iOS?

    So it isn't always black and white. You could argue that the issue is present for everybody but would anybody with a small number of items care? I will also say we don't always get everything right. We attempt to guess how people will use the software but users will always surprise you and individuals will always be inventive. At the moment though we have a number of performance issues with iOS 9 that are demanding attention. We weren't able to get the normal level of beta testing that we'd like and we're getting a wide variety of performance issues being reported that will be keeping the devs busy, not least because it isn't as easy as each being reproducible.

    We do have the request logged, it is open and nobody is saying it won't happen. After that though it's hard to say. All I can do is apologise.

    As an aside, we clearly use favourites very differently and you have my curiosity piqued. Can I ask, how large is your vault that you have 200 favourites and how do you use the favourites flag? I mostly use it as a way to lazily reach a few key items that get regular use, ones that I wouldn't simply access by using the ⌘\ for filling a Login item. This is a genuine question to better understand how others use the feature.

  • Hello littlebobbytables,

    first of all i accepted you apology. But i cant help myself, i have to smile because all these IT support lines are mostly the same (and i have worked in one 20 years ago -> OS/2): Keep the customer calm. So why insisting further ? At the end of the Day i can live with that and the alphabetical order is not a matter of do or die. But you know... I treat your agilebits differently, because of this... let's say "Superblog" of your founder Dave Teare. He gives me the impression that 1password is simply a piece of software you have to love. Fine why not, it is also a core software wich i use everyday and where my (digital) life is engraved. And i want this piece as perfect as Dave is giving me the impression that he does everything for improving it.

    And therefore i am frustrated when a support for a important software (wich is by the way not cheap) cannot stand this quality wich i am expecting. I want to get an answer about the content of the request and not a repetable "Just keep in mind that every feature request has to compete ....." I want to know if i doing something wrong or it is a silly request etc. I know nobody grarantees anything wich he cannot do by hinself and i know programmers have their own mind how the universe has to be structured. But it is important to have quality 2-way communication because then i know somebody had a look at it and then it gives me the impression i'been treated serious. I never asked for a promise so please let's talk about the issue, thanks.

    About the issue of alphabetical order:

    • Do i get somthing wrong, or why are you mentioning only IOS ? Both versions (IOS & OSX) have an alpahbetical order in the categories. Only the favourit list in both versions is not alphabetical. This is annoying and not very ergonomic. Even with 5 entires it is disturbing when the categories are in a alphabetical order. I am confident that if choosen it is solvable. Maybe you creat a smart category ?

    About using favourites:

    Yes i have 200 entires (excatly right now 221) of wich roughly 60 precent i did not use. But these are all registrations, and believe me deleting registrations is not very easy... Therefore i use the favourits as a short cut to my most used 30 entries. I use them very often, especially to open up the website of the entry. Then using the small program in the menubar of OSX, choosing favourits and concentrate extra because is not alphabetical... the rest you now.

    Size of my vault:

    It's hard to say since i use iCloud, but the backup has a size of 774 KB.

    Hope i can help,
    Sascha

  • MrCMrC Community Moderator
    edited October 2015

    I think you have your answer, but you don't like the answer.

    You asked for a feature, and the response was essentially "not right now". And it was said politely. And then you ask "So why insisting further"... and go onto for another few hundred words insisting why "not right now" is an insufficient answer, and insist it should be done now.

    Not every customer is going to be satisfied all the time, for all purposes.

  • MeganMegan

    Team Member

    Hi @sascha2015,

    I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling frustrated! It's great to have users who are so passionate about the product. I'm not sure I can say much more than has already been said by Brenty and Little Bobby, but I'll give it a go.

    Do i get somthing wrong, or why are you mentioning only IOS ?

    In your initial message, you said that you use 1Password on iOS and Mac. iOS was mentioned specifically in Little Bobby's reply because we already have limited options for sorting in iOS. On Mac, there's all kinds of options for sorting your data. On iOS, these options are not present. iOS was mentioned only to define the differences.

    Only the favourit list in both versions is not alphabetical. This is annoying and not very ergonomic. Even with 5 entires it is disturbing when the categories are in a alphabetical order.

    You're correct. We sort all categories alphabetically except for the Favourites. We have a feature request open for allowing the alphabetical listing of Favourites, and I've added your thoughts to the feature request in our internal tracker.

    As has been said above, there are all sorts of factors that determine when a developer is able to focus on a particular feature request, but we are listening to your feedback, and we very much appreciate that you took the time to write in.

    If you have any other questions about 1Password, we're here to help!

    ref: OPM-1786

  • edited October 2015

    Hello Megan,
    i am speechless. You made my day, i am very happy to read your very relevant answer :):):). This is what i expect from good support, relevant answers and give the customer the feeling being serios. Thank god i read your answer before the one from MrC who, with all respect, should think about his role as an community moderator. Regarding the issue, i am happy to contribute my part to make 1password perfect (And yes, it must be "not right now" MrC, i never requested that). From my standpoint, we're finished let see if it can implemented when it's appropriate.

    Thanky you very much,
    Sascha

    PS. Just to make shure how important your reply is, i request since 2 years (!) to the folks of pathfinder (Cocoatech) having 2 icons on the menubar impemented for functions wich already exist as keyboard commands... But i am shure it's because of my bad english, since i am from Austria....

  • MeganMegan

    Team Member

    Hi @sascha2015,

    I'm glad to hear that my answer helped! Your English is a lot better than my attempts at anything in another language (I can manage a 'Guten Tag' or 'Bonjour' and that's about it ;) ) so I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts in a language that is not your first.

    If you ever have any other questions or concerns, we're here for you.

This discussion has been closed.