File attachments in 1Password for Teams
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@danielharvey: Ah, thanks for clarifying! It definitely helps to know that features like Documents and are most important to you. The feedback is appreciated. We're working to bring that (and many other things) to all platforms. :)
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To be honest, noone in our "team" wants to use the web interface. All users prefer to use their personal vaults because of the extended functionality and mainly because of the Windows 7 application. We miss attachments, custom fields, folders, browser extensions, etc. etc. We are used to work better with 1Password, but 1Password for teams pushes whole team back. Do you need a password? First, run a proper browser. Fill-in a long and complicated password. Manually copy all credentials. Somebody had interrupted you for a minute? OK, login again. No more single tap Ctrl+\ and automatic logon according an URL. The idea of teams is great, but the lack of application support runs against the ecosystem. We don't use Macs nor Windows 10 in our company. Some of our system are not compatible with Win10, so we have to stay at Win7. We can somehow work with Teams only in our iPhones, but that's not enough. I am afraid that with such poor experience our boss won't want to continue at a time when the service will require regular payments. We really need better integration to the Windows version, and not only for Windows 10.
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Hi @oksoftware,
We're very aware of the need for a Windows 7 compatible solution, beyond the web interface. We're not arguing that at all, and our Windows development team is working very hard to make that become a reality.
Thanks!
Ben
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Same need for Win7 support here. I just migrated the whole thing back to the Dropbox Vault again (I did it once when using Teams and now again for the Family version). Can't keep the wife happy like this ;-)
It's just that we are hearing "the development team is working very hard" for a couple of months now and no actual release date is mentioned. That does not really help convince me that this really has some kind of priority in the dev team.
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Same need for Win7 support here. I just migrated the whole thing back to the Dropbox Vault again (I did it once when using Teams and now again for the Family version). Can't keep the wife happy like this ;-)
It's just that we are hearing "the development team is working very hard" for a couple of months now and no actual release date is mentioned. That does not really help convince me that this really has some kind of priority in the dev team.@Alexander Sanchez Baena: I hear you. Indeed, this past month since 1Password for Families was announced is longer than any of us would like to wait, but unfortunately we don't have anything to announce yet. :(
I'm glad to hear that Dropbox is working for you for now at least. Did you have anything to add regarding file attachments?
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@brenty: Yeah, a general warning for anyone experimenting with this: My attached files got separated from the 1PW items when moving the items from the Dropbox vault to the Family vault. Instead, the attachments were stored separately in the Family vault and linked to the 1PW items. When migrating back to my Dropbox vault I lost all attachments, because the attachments did not get integrated back into the 1PW items, but were left behind in the Family vault instead, with the link to the 1PW items severed. So be aware of this...
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Yeah, a general warning for anyone experimenting with this: My attached files got separated from the 1PW items when moving the items from the Dropbox vault to the Family vault. Instead, the attachments were stored separately in the Family vault and linked to the 1PW items.
Ah yes, Documents are a separate item type in 1Password for Families/Teams. It allows us to enable things like linking different items, but it's definitely a change from the way local 1Password vaults handle attachments.
When migrating back to my Dropbox vault I lost all attachments, because the attachments did not get integrated back into the 1PW items, but were left behind in the Family vault instead, with the link to the 1PW items severed. So be aware of this...
That's a really great point. I'm sorry for the trouble. While it's possible to download the Documents and attach them to items back in the local vault, that may not be immediately obvious to everyone. It sounds like you have it under control, but I can see where that could be an unexpected complication. I appreciate you bringing that up!
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Attachments are the main feature that we need in Teams. I had assumed that since I can create and view attachments in my Mac client even when viewing entries in the Team valust, that the browser and windows users would have the same capability.
Just about the only thing we share is secret file like ssh keys, certificates and very rarely username / passwords. This would be a killer feature for us. But since the Windows and browser users can't create attachments (or linked documents) it really makes 1password for Teams moot for us now. Obviously we use non-shared vaults for all our username/password stuff. But the collaboration is almost 100% sharing files with secrets in them.
I urge making this a top priority.
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We don't promise anything before it is delivered, but I can tell you that Windows 7 support for Families and Teams is being actively worked on. I am, however, going to rant about supporting deprecated operating systems.
Rant
There are real security advantages to using the current version of operating systems, and although Windows 7 is enormously better than Windows XP, I do not want to see Windows 7 have nearly as long an actual life time.
It is important to keep in mind that using an older, weaker, system not only puts the individual users of such systems at risk, but also increases the risks for everyone else. One of the best (worst) recent demonstrations of that is with the DROWN attack on TLS/SSL a few weeks back. The encryption of TLSv1.2 (the most recent version) sessions could be broken if the server also offered the long deprecated SSLv2 (even for some other service) as an option. [Note: None of our servers offered any support for SSLv2, and we were not affected by DROWN.]
So the mere fact that some site or service allowed some people to connect using outdated protocols put even those who connected with the strongest most modern ones at risk. Simply offering a less secure option to those who still need it weakened everyone's security.
DROWN isn't the only thing like that. Often more secure ways of coding are foregone in order to maintain compatibility with older systems. Indeed, one of the many things that led to Heartbleed fall into exactly this category. OpenSSL didn't use safer memory management libraries because those wouldn't have worked for 16 bit Windows. So wanting to make sure that OpenSSL could be compiled and built for ancient systems meant giving up on some internal design that would have prevented Heartbleed and other bugs of that sort.
Accommodating those who "can't" upgrade?
The case for accommodating people who can't upgrade to fully supported operating systems is clear and obvious. After all, we are working to bring Families and Teams support to Windows 7. But by doing so we remove one less reason for people to upgrade.
Sure there are reasons why people "can't" upgrade, but some of those reasons would go away if people couldn't not upgrade. When we accomodate those who can't upgrade, we are also accommodating those developers who don't release updates for supported operating systems.
So, sure, bringing Teams and Families to Windows 7 is certainly in our customers interests and in our business interests, but it enables the kinds of bad habits that lead to weakened ecosystems.
It's hard to be principled
Ultimate we have to make our choices on a case by case basis. Developing for Mac and iOS is nice because most people do move quickly to the newest operating systems. So it is easier for us to make our latest and greatest versions of 1Password require the latest operating systems. This is terrific, and it improves everyone's security.
But on Windows and Android, there are lots of people who can't upgrade. Android is getting a bit better about making it easier for OS upgrades to happen, but there is a long way to go. The Windows ecosystem has decades of culture and bad habits to overcome despite Microsofts very laudable efforts to change that.
In an ideal world, we would only release sortware for fully supported operating systems. But an ideal world, that wouldn't be a question. So in the world that we live in, we sometimes have to do things like work to bring Teams and Families to Windows 7.
But please ...
Please try to move off of Windows 7 even though we may not be forcing you to. You will make the world a safer place by upgrading.
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Hi @jpgoldberg I understand what you say, but you did mention something important:
Windows 7 is enormously better than Windows XP [...]
Here you ignored Windows Vista, with which I totally agree. Vista was a complete disaster of an OS. However, I do dare to compare Windows 8 to Vista. Hence, Windows 10 is the first viable upgrade to Windows 7.
In that light, I think it is completely legit to ask for support and new versions for Windows 7 for some time to come.
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Thanks to @dahanbn, such reasons are considerably important. And there are other reasons why upgrading isn't possible. Many hardware suppliers (namely HP and Sony) don't provide new drivers for even just four year old computers. This is mainly problem for top models equipped with processors like Core i7, large amount of memory and other fast components, because they are powerful enough to handle all current tasks but they have been killed because of lack of new drivers. In such situation any fast upgrade is impossible until we buy new machines. And one other example why fast update is not possible. We have one $2000 HP notebook with DreamColor screen and although the upgrade is supported, it was a nightmare. The user couldn't work for several days, because Windows 10 couldn't handle a trackpoint controller properly and several keys were causing random mouse clicks accross a whole screen. It took us really many hours to find out what was causing the problem. This bug wasn't mentioned anywhere so we had to do a clean Windows 10 installation and go through all hardware components, stopping hardware, uninstalling and reinstalling devices etc. The only solution was to disable trackpoint and a price to solve this specific issue was enormous.
From this point of view the advice to quickly migrate to Windows 10 is useless.0 -
Hi @dahanbn and @oksoftware
Of course supporting Windows 7 is a good idea (otherwise we wouldn't be actively working on it). Because it pretty much goes without saying that there are compelling reasons to support Windows 7, I didn't spell out those reasons.
I do think that your examples actually illustrate my point. We (the whole tech community of developers, suppliers, and consumers) have built up a system in which there are really good reasons to be slow about moving away from old systems. If HP (following @oksoftware's example) doesn't come out with working trackpoint controllers for their hardware for the new operating systems they can sort of get away with it because they know that people don't "have to" upgrade. So what happens is that there is actually more pressure and incentives on developers to maintain software for deprecated and insecure OS versions than there is to provide things for the newer versions. I was just saying that this is a problem, particularly for security.
And thank you (@dahanbn) for your Linux examples! I wasn't trying to pick on Windows. Because Apple controls the hardware, the operating system, and increasingly the way in which third party software is delivered it is much easier for users of Apple systems to keep things updated. Microsoft's dependence on OEMs along with the heterogeneity of the way third party software is created and distributed have a tougher job. But whatever difficulties Microsoft faces, that likely to be small potatoes compared to keeping Linux systems up to date.1 This is an industry-wide problem.
So as I said, there are lots of reasons why people can't update, and there are lots of reasons why we should accommodate those people. But in doing so we are, in a small way, contributing to the over all problem that you are all describing.
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Before people flame me about my suggestion that Linux systems are harder to keep up to date than Windows systems or tell me how easy it is to do OS upgrades using distro X, please consider that that requires having made the right/lucky choice of distro years ago. I should also confess that my FreeBSD system is running 9.2-PRERELEASE compiled in September 2013. ↩︎
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