What does the 30 day history limitation mean?
On https://families.1password.com it is said that you can go back 30 days in time and recover passwords which our or your family members have deleted or changed. In the apps outside the family account, this is stored indefinitely. Why would the history only be stored for 30 days?
This means you will have to check sort of immedeately after each change if the change succeeded (sometimes it doesn't and you only find out after months). This would be a reason to stay af the old version.
Mind you: as the space is restricted anyway to 1 GB why have a time limit as well?
Secondly: I have moved items from a pre-family vault to a family fault. I can still see the old password which I changed to the new one in 2013. So what is meant with the 30 day history?
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Comments
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Hi @HalfBekend!
This is a really good question :) Because we encrypt everything, every change made to an item means that we have to keep a full copy of the change. If you change the same item 10 times, you'll have 10 of that item in your history. That clutters things up for you and, when applied to thousands of accounts and millions of items, starts taking up a lot of sever space :)
The 1 GB limit applies to your Documents; we don't put a cap on how large all of your items across all of your family's faults can be. So you get 1 GB of Documents, but a theoretical infinite amount of space for your Logins, Credit Cards, Identities, and so on.
Please let us know if you have any other questions! :)
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Hey @ntimo!
There might be some kind of size limit on secure notes, but I'm not aware of what it might be! I wouldn't recommend writing a novel and storing it in a note ;)
I don't know that you'd notice any long encryption or decryption times with large items; we've built it to be pretty quick and seamless. Having said that, I don't really have experience with or know people who are storing ginormous Secure Notes in 1Password Families.
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@Aleen I like to test things out so I created a secure note with the Lore impress..... text it worked pretty fine with the 10000 words. So I don't thing that there is a limit :dizzy: witch makes me happy. I mean Iam never ever going to need to put a novel in a secure note that would be a secure document of course but you can never no. ;)
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@ntimo if they enforced the 5MB limit like they do with Documents it would be millions of words :)
@Aleen so if someone deletes a login it goes to the trash and stays in there for 30 days then gets permanently deleted? Then for changes you only keep the changes for 30 days and after that there is only one version?
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@tommyent: It's best not to conflate history with Trash. They're not the same thing, and are only related insomuch as all items can have a history of changes.
- Items in the Trash are in your vault, in the Trash. Unless you empty the Trash, they stay right there.
- An item's history, on the other hand, includes any changes to item within the past 30 days, in case you want to "undo" an edit. If you have an item you haven't edited within 30 days, there will be no need to restore it, and it won't have any history saved at that point anyway, only the current version.
I hope this helps! :pirate:
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@brenty it would be far more useful to have x number of revisions instead of x days. It is very easy for a vault to have a change go unnoticed for 31 days plus. Especially a shared one. Just curious has this been considered?
Not seeing versioning in Notes or Documents is this going to be the case? Is it limited to item types?
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@brenty it would be far more useful to have x number of revisions instead of x days.
@tommyent: That may be true for you but I'm not sure that you can speak for everyone. ;)
But you make a good point about shared vaults. It's certainly something we can consider in the future, but keep in mind that could potentially increase the storage needed (and also count toward your quota).
Documents do not have an Item History. However, Secure Notes definitely do. Please make a change an confirm that you have this option at the bottom of the item in the 1Password for Families web interface and let me know what you find!
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@brenty well me and enough people that Goolge, Dropbox, Crashplan, Lastpass, Keepass, Dashlane etc all offer unlimited or X number ;)
As far as quota as you pointed out Documents are not supported so unless I am storing some of the worlds longest novels as Secure Notes I'd say it's not really a problem. Although now that I type this perhaps I made an improper assumption. The 1GB(2GB) is per user right? Or is that shared and each user only gets 200MB/285MB ?
Ehh I have to use the web version to see the item history :( So that's the trash and history so far that is only available in the browser is there anything else?
If someone deletes a shared item does that end up in my trash, their trash or both?
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It is worth considering, certainly.
The quota is per family, but there is no enforcement between users (e.x. user 1 might be using 900 MB and user 2 might be using 50 MB, leaving 50 MB free).
We're working toward having most functionality available either from the web interface & the native apps. The one exception is that administration will likely need to be done from the web interface for the forseeable future.
The Trash is for the vault, so both users will see the trashed item if they both have that vault.
Thanks!
Ben
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Just curious but what happens when 1GB is hit? Even at 5MB per doc that's not a whole lot of documents per user.
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Hey @tommyent,
If every document is 5MB, that's over 200 documents for your Family, which is a good starting place at least :) I think we're still ironing out the details of how we'll help Families who need more than 1GB of storage, but we'll make sure they're taken care of!
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@Aleen true however exceeding 40 per user definitely seems possible. I personally was surprised to find that I currently have 33 (most measure in bytes or KB) in 1Password and that doesn't include any personal docs. Most of that was kept in Knox which was killed off so that's going to need to go somewhere :)
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@tommyent: A few things that can help:
- Sharing documents in shared vaults (rather than duplicating the same ones in multiple vaults)
- Early adopter bonus (2GB if you've signed up already — which it seems you have)*
- As you pointed out, you're actually using less space than you thought you would be. I've been using 1Password for years, and I'm still under 100MB. Total. Kind of unbelievable, but I just double-checked.
*dteare originally announced that the early adopter bonuses would be given to those who signed up by March 21st, but announced in last week's newsletter that this is being extended through April 14th. :sunglasses:
Also, Knox isn't gone, but since it's not under active development at the moment we didn't think it was appropriate to be selling new licenses. I still use it every day myself. 1Password for Families isn't meant to be an archival solution (or a "cloud file storage" service), but it's certainly useful for adding smaller things like images of important documents or software license files, just as it has been for years. The you're really only likely to run into storage issues by using it for much larger file types, like videos, or for a photo albums or music playlists, and there are much better options for that sort of thing. ;)
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Back to the original question: I just experienced the scenario I was afraid of but unexpectedly not in one of the Family vaults, but in the Dropbox synced vault.
I changed a password and then got reported that it was not accepted (somehow because the site thinks my original password was not correct although it came from 1Password.
The password entry was still in the Primary vault, which now shows the new one....
Now, I can't pull up the old version in OSX version 6.1 (610006). Did you remove that option to list old passwords?Really: trashing the history is A TERRIBLE idea. Updating passwords goes wrong very often. This is not only a problem when you share a vault, but also when you don't and thus saving passwords in the private vault of your family account and now in the primary account as well is risky. This REALLY needs to be solved ASAP in my opinion. A reason consider other options than 1Password and leave 1Password even though I have been using it for years unless this is solved very quickly and permanently...
Disk space is almost for fee nowadays. As Brenty reports, the usage for passwords hardly takes any disk space, storage space is a non-issue considering we need this and the apps or the family account is paid for. In the Dropbox account the vaults are less than 100 MB...
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I don't think you need to worry about the password values. When the password is changed, all old passwords kept within the item itself. It means that the latest version of the item will always have the entire history.
The main reason we wanted to have a limit on the archived items is to make sure that we can keep the database performing well for many years. It not about the storage space (the items do not count against the storage space) but more about the number of items which we expect to be in billions fairly soon.
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Having said that, I do understand the anxiety this might be creating. We will need to figure out how to solve it.
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@HalfBekend We changed the policy to guarantee that the item history will be available for at least one year.
Thanks again for your feedback!
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:) :+1:
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