Compatibility - Oh, why-why-why?

Peti
Peti
Community Member
in Mac

I discovered 1Password yesterday.
I downloaded an older (version 4) trial for OSX 10.9 Mavericks - and I am wondering about database compatibility.

Compatibility
1) Is the database created with 1Password v4 compatible with your latest version 6?
1) And how about future: Is the database created with 1Password v4 going to be compatible later on with even newer versions, let's say version 7 or 8?

I cannot upgrade my system as I am having many very specialised apps that may break in Yosemite / El Captain - and they would cost a fortune to update to newer versions. And why to do if they work perfectly. So that's the main reason for not doing so yet.

Thinking loud about compatibility from a sales perspective, I hope it helps you to understand customers:
MAC
This whole compatibility thing - both for Mac and iPad - is concerning, and making me unsure.
Why did you make newer version incompatible with OSX 10.9? it is NOT an old OSX in any way. And 1Password doesn't look like an app that wouldn't run on OSX 10.9, and it doesn't look like an app that must use some cutting edge features of the new OSX. I mean 1Password is not a high-end animation app that relies on literally everything, from graphics card chips to OSX drivers.

And this does have an effect on buying decision as this tells me that your update path is rather quick and forced, your apps become obsolete really quickly. It makes me think 10 times before buying it. What if I get a new iMac in 2 years time with whatever version we'll have - and it's not fair to ask users to re-buy relatively costly utility apps every 1-2 years.

To make an comparison with the physical world, I wouldn't be happy to rebuy a bicycle every 1-2 years because the road gets resurfaced after each winter. I am happy to buy a new bike if the new one offers me so much more, for example it flies - but not after each winter when road resurfacing takes place.

So your app looks awesome and I actually want to buy it, but these things are concerning, please help to clarify these things. I (and many of us..) really prefer when relatively expensive, yet "only background" utility apps are more future proof, because we all own at least a dozen of these utility apps, and to fork out $40-$60 every 1-2 years for 10-15 little apps.. well... and on top, we have the "big" real productivity apps as well. (main reason I am not upgrading my Mavericks)

iPAD
Same goes with iPad app compatibility. When I discovered 1Password yesterday through online articles, some said that you have an iPad app for iOS8. I instantly headed to download. And I found out that no, it is now only for iOS9. Why? I have iOS8, and I am not going to upgrade to iOS9 because iPad 2 will become unusably slow - and it works just ok for everything. So of course I am not going to use 1Password for iPad, and it may influence my overall buying decision even for the Mac app. Are there really that many essential, unavoidable features of these new iOS / OSX versions that developers instantly say, ok let's make "old" version unsupported? i don't believe this as there are tons of apps that work on 10.9

On the other hand, please don't misunderstand my concerns, I really like the app, it really is something fantastic - but I hope sharing my honest concerns with our crazy "update" culture may help you to understand customers point of views.. ..and who knows, it may help to "slow down" a bit in a good sense.

I am still hoping to purchase the app depending on your 1Password version 4 database compatibility, but I also need to think if I can live without the iPad app, and happy with a way too fast obsolescence.

Thanks for reading!

1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • nathanvf
    nathanvf
    1Password Alumni

    Hey there @peti,

    Yes the database for 1Password 4 will work all the way up to 1Password 6. My guess is that it will work very will with 1Password 7, but ultimately you should not worry as we would definitely have a way to easily upgrade that database to version 7.

    As for compatibility, I'm not 100% certain why 10.9 compatibility was dropped from 1Password. But it's likely not because we wanted to support the latest greatest features of Mac OS X. It's likely because each version of Mac OS X introduces completely different behaviours from fundamental parts of the OS.

    For example basic view components and windows can change behaviours will have new bugs or behaviours that we have to keep track of. Trying to maintain multiple versions of Mac OS X for testing is difficult and would lead to a lot more complicated code with version checking etc.

    It's just about the same for iOS, it's possible that it makes more sense to stay with the latest since a large majority of users will upgrade their devices with every OS release.

    Believe me if it was easy to support the earlier OSes we would do it. But it costs a lot of time and money for us to do that unfortunately.

    Hope that explains it.

  • Peti
    Peti
    Community Member

    Hi,
    Thanks for the reply.

    I see your point and I do understand. Apple is rolling out new versions yearly, so I just wish you could stick to at least 3 versions, otherwise everything becomes obsolete too quickly. Keeping compatibility for as long as possible is really almost among the most important buying factors in this throw-away society.

    Anyway, licensing:

    1) if I click on the buy button inside 1Password 4, it takes me to your online store, but it doesn't look like a specific page for version 4. So if I decide to purchase, can I just go ahead on that page, I assume yes?

    2) also, I have another Mac, but that's not my workhorse computer, that one is just for freetime. And the other one actually does run latest OSX as I have no critical softwares on that. So I guess I will use the version 6 on that.
    --> So what will happen, when I share the same database through dropbox between the v4 and v6, is that ok - can they both function?
    --> can I buy today and the license will run version 4 on my "old" Mavericks, and version 6 on the other Mac with OSX 10.11 ?

    Thanks

  • nathanvf
    nathanvf
    1Password Alumni

    Hey there @peti,

    A license for 1Password 6 will work well with 1Password 4, so there is no worry with that.

    The license will indeed work on both of those computers.

    Agilekeychain is not really a "database" but it would indeed sync between versions through Dropbox.

    Hope this helps.

  • Peti
    Peti
    Community Member

    Thanks, the fact that different versions "database" do communicate with each-other sounded convincing
    so I just joined and purchased license. :)

    For my iOS8, I am not sure what will happen. For now, I just leave it without password management.

    A last question:
    1) which is the ultimate file where things are stored? I saw the backups, but which is the active "database" file?
    2) if I use dropbox, then dropbox is the only place where the "database" is written, or it also writes the passwords simultaneously to the Mac's system folder? I assume not, only to dropbox, but it's better to understand how it works

    3) Out of curiosity
    This is an interesting one for storing on Dropbox. If you have no answer for these, please don't worry, but maybe you have some info:
    3A --> could I add an extra layer of security for Dropbox by creating a password protected "dmg" folder with Mac's Disk Utility? Of course it means that this folder needs to be opened each time I start the Mac, otherwise 1Password cannot read / write it, but i am happy to make this extra step if it doesn't break the app. This way dropbox is more than ultra secure. Would it mess up things?
    3B) --> there is also an app that does something like this automatically, by securing all data before they are uploaded to Dropbox. It's called Sookosa for Dropbox.
    What do you think about these two options?

  • Megan
    Megan
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @Peti,

    Thanks so much for your support of 1Password - you rock!

    1) which is the ultimate file where things are stored? I saw the backups, but which is the active "database" file?

    The active database file (for the AgileBits Store version of 1Password) is stored here:

    ~/Library/Application Support/1Password\ 4/Data/OnePassword.sqlite

    This file will contain your entire database with all of your vaults. It should not be moved.

    2) if I use dropbox, then dropbox is the only place where the "database" is written, or it also writes the passwords simultaneously to the Mac's system folder?

    When you sync to Dropbox, a copy of the vault’s data is moved to your Dropbox folder. Whenever you update an item in that vault, the local copy (in the Application Support folder) and the ‘sync’ copy (in the Dropbox folder) will be updated.

    3A --> could I add an extra layer of security for Dropbox by creating a password protected "dmg" folder with Mac's Disk Utility? Of course it means that this folder needs to be opened each time I start the Mac, otherwise 1Password cannot read / write it, but i am happy to make this extra step if it doesn't break the app. This way dropbox is more than ultra secure. Would it mess up things?

    I don’t know that this extra step is necessary. Let me tell you a little bit more about how your 1Password data is encrypted. We are very confident about storing 1Password data in the cloud, as your data file is encrypted with an exceedingly secure encryption algorithm called AES. Even if someone were to acquire a copy of your 1Password data file, it would be extremely difficult (approaching impossible in a human lifetime) for them to actually gain access to your passwords without your Master Password. In short, we believe it is just as secure as having the data on your laptop. To learn more about cloud data security, have a read through our Knowledgebase article on Cloud Security.

    And you can see the thoughts behind our data format's design here.

    Also, you can check out our blog for many more articles that go into the nitty gritty math behind what makes 1Password so secure.

    I hope this helps, but if you have any more questions, please let me know!

This discussion has been closed.