"Starting Over", Stripping very device of "any trace" of 1Password 6 Mac, Families Mac/IOS....
Hi guys,
Let me say up front, the title of this post is a little bit extravagant for a purpose, it's meant in a good sense. I am a programmer and after spending many hours reading user guides and searching the Forms I keep running into a few common themes which the different ways to address them have been a bit confusing and some left unanswered.. Hopefully bringing all of them to one place for the current date will be helpful to me as hopefully others.
My goal is as stated in the title, I want to Start over with 1Password Families. Again. I have programmed on Window as well as Macs/IOS so please don't bypass any ideas/solutions which is above the head of the average user. If needed, after we come up with a working solution, if helpful, I will conclude this post with hopefully a short tutorial for the general user if need be.
I started out with a license for 1Password 6 for Mac and installed it and realized it didn't give me the flexibility to use it for my family and discovered you had two new products, Families and Teams. I wrote an email to you support people about migrating what I had over to a trial version of Families to check it out. And any issues I need to look for. I was assured it would migrate without problems. So I used the following links to create a Family account migrate my existing stand alone version to Families http:/support.1password.com/teams-families-setup/mac.html http:/support.1password.com/teams-families-migrate/mac.html. As well as deleting any thing to do with Dropbox. All worked well and I moved all of my logins, etc over to the new Families vaults. Then set up Families on my wife's Mac as well as each of our iPads/iPhones.
Up front, all devices work fine but as many have mentioned on the forums there are a few things which could have been included in Families First release which could have made it a little better. Again, I understand what it takes to develop and implement a product as you guys have and realize the huge effort it is. So again this is not to complain, I am just trying to get some clarity and hopefully help others. One issue I may mention is the User Guides specifically for the Families/Teams, It is written mostly using the word Teams and some of the examples are Team specific and the difference between the two is confusing.
Let me ask a stupid question. I probably missed this one. When using the Forums, the dates on each Post/Repliey only display the Month and Day, not the Year. I assume all of your forum posts are not all just for 2016. Am I missing something. How can I know this is a recent post which is more up to date or something a year ago which has already been addressed and is no longer an issue?
Now that I have my wife's and my devices migrated I found the following issues which have been a topic of conversation on a lot of posts from people who originally had the stand alone version of 1Password for Mac and later migrated to Families or Teams without "Completely stripping" any sign of the previous version from their Mac.
The Primary vault create when installing the stand alone version of 1Password for Mac is still there and cannot be deleted unless you do a reset or "start over" http:/support.1password.com/starting-over/mac.html .
With further reading after doing the start over above and adding back in your devices, there were many asking how to delete the duplicate Device entries. That also cannot be done as they were imported with the new startup from some previous data. I assume from the Online account where the vaults are stored was still there and active.
Someone from your team said they could have your whole Families account deleted and then these items would not be imported during a new install.
Someone also mentioned of a Reset Utility which sounds like an automated version of the "Start Over" process mentioned in #1 above. I found Two links, one for version 1Password 4 and 1Password 5 but not for version 6.
Now for my final last few questions, my goal is to "completely strip" every thing on all of my devices that is installed with both the stand alone version of 1Pasasword for Mac and the Familes version and also the same for my IOS devices. The following are my assumptions and if I understand should clean up sone of the issues.
Make a backup of my vaults and export a .crv file of the contents of each vault which has all the data I need to re-create my data as well as the passwords to the sites as need.
Follow the Mac and IOS Start Over links and delete all of the files, plists, etc in all of the suggested folders. I will not need to use the Reset Utility because there isn't a current version and there isn't any hint what it really does. Then move the apps on the Macs and all IOS Devices to the trash and shut each device off and on (Probably over kill), a reboot would probably be fine).
E-mail Support and have them "Delete my current Families account which should clean out anything which when installing the new apps will be picked up and brought back into the new setup.
What about the license for my original 1Password for Mac, should that be removed on you end also ?
Question: When I create a new Families account after the old one is deleted, can I use the same account name ? Or must it be different ?
From here just download the apps I need fresh from your site and add in the same vaults I have previously as well as the Logins, Etc. This should at least take care of the "Primary vault on Mac OS X and Not create andy duplicate devices.
Last I read the Primary vaults in IOS will still be there and a solution to remove those has not been released yet.
Sorry for the long, long post but I really like the functionality of Families and want to signup after the trial,. but all the extra stuff is driving me nuts. "Perfection Issue!"
And please if you have a better way or additions to what I am preposing to do please don't be shy...
Many thanks in advance..
Comments
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Sorry, i left out one last issue which is the most important. Migrating to Families from a Licensed copy also requires you to enter your Master Password signing in on your Desktop and then again when going online. In a forum post it lead me to believe it will only require the entry of the Master Password once if I would have installed Families only... Stripping and starting over should fix this problem.
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Hi @jtaitt! That's quite the post you have there, so I'm going to break it up into smaller chunks to make sure my response is coherent ;)
When using the Forums, the dates on each Post/Repliey only display the Month and Day, not the Year. I assume all of your forum posts are not all just for 2016. Am I missing something. How can I know this is a recent post which is more up to date or something a year ago which has already been addressed and is no longer an issue?
Reverse chronological ordering helps with that some, but I agree that if you're searching for a solution it isn't immediately clear how old a thread might be.
The Primary vault create when installing the stand alone version of 1Password for Mac is still there and cannot be deleted unless you do a reset or "start over" http:/support.1password.com/starting-over/mac.html .
We plan to change this in the next stable release of 1Password for Mac. The new workflow -- which is already available in the latest betas -- is much easier and should reduce some of the frustration with both "starting over" and with simply getting rid of the Primary vault.
With further reading after doing the start over above and adding back in your devices, there were many asking how to delete the duplicate Device entries. That also cannot be done as they were imported with the new startup from some previous data. I assume from the Online account where the vaults are stored was still there and active.
We're also aware of this frustration.
Someone from your team said they could have your whole Families account deleted and then these items would not be imported during a new install.
That is correct. If you choose to delete your Team account -- which requires you to email us, explain why you want the account to be deleted, confirm that you're aware that the deletion is permanent, and recognize that you will lose your data -- it can't be taken back.
Someone also mentioned of a Reset Utility which sounds like an automated version of the "Start Over" process mentioned in #1 above. I found Two links, one for version 1Password 4 and 1Password 5 but not for version 6.
Addressed above :)
Migrating to Families from a Licensed copy also requires you to enter your Master Password signing in on your Desktop and then again when going online. In a forum post it lead me to believe it will only require the entry of the Master Password once if I would have installed Families only... Stripping and starting over should fix this problem.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Are you saying that you don't want to have to enter your Master Password when visiting 1Password.com if you're already sign in to 1Password for Mac? If that's not what you're saying, can you please clarify what you mean?
Now on to the meat of the issue...
I believe that you could, technically, follow those steps. But you don't need to do that if all you want to do is delete your Primary vault. Like I said above, in the next stable release we will make it much easier for 1Password Families users to clean up the experience on both 1Password for Mac and 1Password for iOS. In the meantime, you could simply change the All Vaults view to exclude your Primary vault. That way you don't have any clutter, and it's not affecting your data in any way, just in case you haven't migrated something over.
There's also no reason to do anything with the license. It isn't affecting anything, and if you decide to leave 1Password Families in the future, your license will allow you to continue using 1Password for Mac.
I'm also not entirely clear on the purpose of following all these steps. You say you want to remove "any trace" of 1Password... but that you then want to reinstall 1Password and, presumably, use the same logins / credit cards / etc. you might have already added. Besides cleaning up the Primary vault and removing duplicate devices from the web view -- which won't be an issue if you use the tools we're releasing sooner rather than later -- what do you think the benefits of doing this are? Is there any other reason for following these steps?
Whew! I think that covers the crux of the issue 8-)
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Sorry for the confusion. It's difficult sometimes to talk about technical issue in writing on a forum or e-mail. A lot gets lost in how things are worded and how much time the receiver takes to read, understand and answer all questions. It sometimes creates more questions and more confusion. And auto correct can really mess things up.
The main things I'm trying to fix and get clarity on are:
Removing the Primary vault created in the initial install of the Desktop version of 1Password for Mac which was not removable if you migrate to the Families version.
This is not a big deal and I know it can be hidden and later with the new bata when released will have the ability to remove them.
If I choose to do a "Rest" or "Start Over" as it is called in the Forums, there is a warning that when you re-install everything It will create duplicate device entries in the Admin Console - Family Member - Devices.
This is why I want to have my Family account deleted so I can recreate it, hopefully with the same name and avoid having duplicate device entries.
The main issue is having to login twice on Mac OS X. Once on the desktop and again if you want to go to the online version. There was a post that discussed this and they said it was caused by the migration from the Desktop version to Families or Teams. The team member who answered the question to my understanding said if you started over or reset your install (Uninstalled by deleting the files from the folder in the link I included in my original post) and then set it up as Families it would eliminate this issue.
Again this is the main Issue I want to solve before I spent hours entering in all of my logins and personal data. And waiting for a fix is to long to wait for, assuming it will be even addressed in the next release.
And the dates in the Forum, I understand the order they are in but do they span multiple years or only January of 2016 on with anything earlier being archived. I assume you span all years and knowing when the current post i am reading is current or not helps when trying to solve a problem. Most of the question I'm asking in this post are based on trying to get clarity about these issues because I don't know how current the discussions are.
Another question again, if I have them delete my Families account and I start over, I am fully aware everything will be lost. That is the Idea of starting over. I want a clean slate. My question was if I have them do that, when I open a new account to install Families again can I use the Same Name i.e John-Doe.1Password.com or do I have to come up with a new name ?
I'm glade to hear a lot of these issues are being addressed in your next beta and you are hinting that is soon. How soon is soon. Again I understand where you guys are as developers but If my assumptions are correct, I can fix these items in less than a half hour and move on.
All in all, my questions where all based on "If I totally remove all traces of 1Password from all of my devices and re-install them with the Families only version, are my assumptions correct that the issues will be avoided, including creating duplicate devices. And is there any other hidden data which I need to be aware of to do a clean install?
I hope this helps to make it clearer what I am trying to understand. Then I can make an educated decision as to what I want to do.
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@jtaitt Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like you're looking for something different than what I expected when I first read this thread.
The main issue is having to login twice on Mac OS X. Once on the desktop and again if you want to go to the online version. There was a post that discussed this and they said it was caused by the migration from the Desktop version to Families or Teams. The team member who answered the question to my understanding said if you started over or reset your install (Uninstalled by deleting the files from the folder in the link I included in my original post) and then set it up as Families it would eliminate this issue.
Just so you know, you will always have to unlock the 1Password app and 1Password.com separately. Even if they use the same Master Password, unlocking one doesn't unlock the other. Is that what you're looking for? You don't really need to sign in to your account from 1Password.com unless you want to manage your vaults or invite people. You can just use the apps for most things.
You can make the passwords the same in both areas, though, if you'd like things to be a bit more consistent. That would entail starting over, as you already mentioned. We recommend waiting for the next version of the app, but you can also use the beta version if you want or simply start over manually.
Another question again, if I have them delete my Families account and I start over, I am fully aware everything will be lost. That is the Idea of starting over. I want a clean slate. My question was if I have them do that, when I open a new account to install Families again can I use the Same Name i.e John-Doe.1Password.com or do I have to come up with a new name ?
I really don't want to delete your account if it isn't necessary. Until we get a good idea of what you want to accomplish, can we just settle on keeping your account around? :) We only delete accounts when someone has lost their Master Password or Account Key, not when they just want to remove the data in it. You can always do that yourself, after all.
I'm glade to hear a lot of these issues are being addressed in your next beta and you are hinting that is soon. How soon is soon. Again I understand where you guys are as developers but If my assumptions are correct, I can fix these items in less than a half hour and move on.
It's already in the beta, as I mentioned. It'll be in the next stable release.
Hopefully that clears things up a bit. I'm still trying to get a better idea of what you'd like to do here.
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I'm not quite sure what to say from here. I read all of the user guides for the products I'm testing which seem a bit outdated. The parts of the user guides specific to the family and teams are written what it seems like for the teams version and I have found some conflicting things there. Then searching through the forums to find some clarity to the confusion in the guides I found statements by your team members on how they should work or are not working yet. The whole point of this post was to clarify what I read and make sure I understood what i read and was my understanding correct and current.
A lot of the issues I have read on the forum are about issues which seem to come from those who already had 1Password for Mac installed and then migrated to either Family or Teams. My reason for wanting to completely uninstall all trace of 1Password of of all of my devices is to start with a clean slate. And then re-install only the Family version for each device. I read where one user did this and when re-installing the apps without having the Families or Teams Account deleted created duplicate device entries. for each Family member and they couldn't be removed.
All in all this is a good product but since I installed the Family version to test it and not having used the original product I had, I have run into, I will just say some conflicting issues and I don't know if they are just bugs or problems introduced from migrating from the old Licensed version to Families. I'll never know unless I start with a clean slate, which would include deleting my Families Account and starting over. The old licensed version, 1Password 6.2.1 for Mac shouldn't cause any problems as long as I can Uninstall it on "my" Mac and be sure there aren't any rogue files left which will be left and used by the new install of the Families App. I Assume the "Start Over Manually" instructions are current and point out all of the files which have to be removed manually from various System folders. And of course the Main App.
I hope that clarifies some of my reasoning.
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@jtaitt Okay, that's a bit simpler than I thought. Thanks for clarifying things. I'm really sorry about the confusion with 1Password Teams and Families. We started things off with Teams, which is what Families is based on, in November of last year. Then we branched out in February with Families. The apps still have a few traces of the old stuff but we have made all that better in the upcoming version. :)
Anyway, I think starting over manually is just fine if you want to get this done now. If you'd like to wait until 1Password 6.3 is released, feel free to do that as well. Doing things manually does entail moving the folders manually. It should only take two to three minutes though, and all you have to do once you're finished is sign in to your account. Please make sure you have moved your data to the account first, though, just so you don't have to worry about that after you have reset things.
Hope that helps!
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Okay, I did a manual start over for my personal account. The Primary vault is gone and I now have a duplicate Device for my Mac in the Web device List as I expected.
You did say the beta will give us the ability to delete the second device ?
Also, My wife's account is unchanged. Still has Primary the vault. Will that sync up eventually and go away or do I have to do a manual start over on her Mac as well which will again add a duplicate device ?
This is the reason I wanted to completely delete my account. or maybe that is the wrong term, I'm speaking of the whole Families Account which is the container for both my wife's member account and my own. And then I wanted to signup again and recreate everything after clearing all of my devices. Maybe a wasted process, but it would reassure me I had a clean install and what I'm looking at for my trial is what I get. I have only been in Trial for about 5 days, I'm Not looking for an extended trial. This is the next step I would like to take....
And in doing so I ask the question again, after the whole Families account is deleted can I use the same name to recreate the new families account ? Like John-Doe.1Password.com ?
Looked at the beta also and it looks like it is ready to go other than getting it through the App Store. (My assumption from looking at the release notes.) Which I assume you need to have done so you can release a version from your Web site also ? Could be a long wait. Either way since I can install the beta check it out and move back to the current release if I choose, I may take a look at that after reinstalling my entire Family account.
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Hi @jtaitt,
Also, My wife's account is unchanged. Still has Primary the vault. Will that sync up eventually and go away or do I have to do a manual start over on her Mac as well which will again add a duplicate device ?
The 1Password apps are separate entities. Resetting the app on your computer changes only that app. If you would like to remove the primary vault on your wife’s computer, you would need to go through the starting over process there as well.
You did say the beta will give us the ability to delete the second device ?
Just to confirm, is your concern here with the list of ‘Authorized Devices’ in the web app?
The previous discussion in this thread has been about the removal of the primary vault from your 1Password apps, not necessarily the list of devices that you see in the web app.
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No, The duplicate device was an after effect for doing a reset. If you guys would read the entire post maybe someone would have a clue what is going on. I wanted to do a complete reset. Blow the whole account away "Name.1Password.com". And completely start with a new account. I just got a notice about an update to 6.3. lets see what that fixes. Again this is a trial to see if i want to even use this product. And then there is Teams for my company if I even get that far.
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Hi @jtaitt,
I apologize if I’m misunderstanding you here. I think the question is why you’re looking to do a hard reset of your account.
My reason for wanting to completely uninstall all trace of 1Password of of all of my devices is to start with a clean slate. And then re-install only the Family version for each device. I read where one user did this and when re-installing the apps without having the Families or Teams Account deleted created duplicate device entries. for each Family member and they couldn't be removed.
With the 6.3 update (as you mention) you will be able to remove the primary vault from your wife’s system without having to go through all of the starting over steps that you used to set up your machine, which should give you the behaviour that you want (your 1Password Families data and no other vaults) in the 1Password apps.
The only outstanding question that I see here is the appearance of duplicate devices in the ‘Authorized Devices’ list. Is this the reason that you want to start over with your account or are there other issues that we should be exploring here? As Penderworth mentioned earlier, we’d rather not delete your account for no reason, and if there are any issues with the current implementation of 1Password Families, we’d be more than happy to investigate them and see how we can resolve them for all users.
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In the beginning when I migrated from my original Desktop version of 1Password for Mac to do a trial for the Families version, I had a few other issues happen which I didn't mention above. One being when changing a password in my banking account, It saved the new password on the banking site but didn't save it in 1 Password. It took me a couple of days to get it corrected at the bank as I didn't have a clue what the new password was because it was generated by your password generator. Since then I have seen a few glitches and as explained above, I read through the Docs, Searched the Forum and what I was seeing in the Documents didn't match what I was seeing on the program itself. I'm at a place I feel very deeply that the migration process was not as clean as it should have been. I should have uninstalled my original software and started from scratch with Families. I have had to many issues which make me suspicious that I'm concerned there are underlying problems from migrating from my old software. Whether irrational or not, I will not know whether I'm finding bugs or is it by design or my lack of understanding. With a clean install by deleting the Main account, I can then feel confident in what I'm buying, especially since this is a security product.. As I explained above, I have been a programmer in windows and Mac/IOS for many years and as an experienced developer i know you guys are in transition of splitting out products and have a lot of cleanup and further development to do. I get it. This is just the way it works. But the best way for me to be confident in your product at this point in time is to do a total re-install by deleting the Main account on your end and letting me start over on this end installing just Families. If someone would have told me the beta would be released in a day or two we probably wouldn't be at this point where I deleted my personal account as advised which created a duplicate device which....
Most of all I really don't get you hesitation in letting me start over with a clean slate. By everyone dancing around the issue makes me wonder what else is going on under the surface. And I'm willing to say this is probably all my own mis-trust at this point because of the avoidance. If you really want to help a potential new customer then explain to me with an honest technical reason why you cannot reset this account as requested. What is the issue ?
Im sorry to be a bit frustrated at this point, but in the beginning, my inquiry was to get clarity as to what I was seeing in your Docs and what I was seeing in the program. If its confusing to me I wonder what the everyday user is seeing..
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@jtaitt You make a good point. If you'd like to start from scratch with your account and with the app, that's perfectly fine. It's your account. :) Could you send us an email at support@1password.com and mention me and this thread in the email? We'd be happy to help you start over so you feel good about 1Password Families.
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Thanks, I will send in an e-mail.
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I see Laura is assisting you via email. We'll work with you via email until everything is resolved, so we are not duplicating efforts or creating any confusion for you. :)
I did want to follow up on a few things, though. Both for your sake and the sake of anyone else coming across this discussion in the future. Speaking of which…
Dates on forum discussions
The year is only omitted from forum posts and threads in the current year. Older posts show the year in which they were created. This is similar to how Finder uses "relative dates" by default on your Mac.
Removing the Primary (local) vault
As you know, we released 1Password 6.3 for Mac yesterday. After updating 1Password for Mac to version 6.3, you should see the option to remove local vaults in Preferences > Advanced. When you turn off "Allow creation of vaults outside of 1Password accounts" your Primary (local) vault will be deleted. If you have additional local vaults besides your Primary vault, you will need to delete them before disabling that option.
It sounds like you don't need that for yourself at this point, but perhaps it may help on your wife's Mac.
Starting over
You don't need to start over in order to remove your Primary vault. Just use the option above.
However, just in case you ever do want to start over from scratch in 1Password for Mac for some reason (or someone else coming across this thread in the future is curious), you can now choose Help > Troubleshooting > Start Over from the menu bar. 1Password must be locked in order to do that, and you will LOSE ALL OF YOUR LOCAL DATA that hasn't synced to your family or team account (or to Dropbox or iCloud if the data is in a local vault).
I hope that helps. I'm really sorry for all the back and forth. I think there were a few factors that compounded the confusion:
- We don't normally pre-announce release dates. Many factors (some beyond our control) can affect them. I wish we had been able to say when you first started this thread that those features were only two days away. Unfortunately, we didn't actually know that. This was one of those times where there were other factors. I'm glad we got 6.3 released with this features for the future, though. I think that your experience really underscores the need for them. Again, I'm sorry you had to go through this yourself. It's of little consolation to you personally, but it does make me glad to know we won't be putting anyone else through all this from now on.
- We are very serious about security. And a very important part of security is data availability. The last thing we would ever want is to delete someone's account and find out later that there was valuable information in it that they needed. Out of an abundance of caution, we have a very rigorous process for deleting accounts as it must be done on our end at this time. In the future, it may be possible to delete your family or team yourself. There will still be some hoops to jump through to confirm things, but at least that way you can do it all on your own without all the back and forth. On the bright side, deleting an account is not something most folks do more than once, so I'm really hoping it's all uphill for you from here.
If there is anything else we can help with, please don't hesitate to let us know. You can reply here or via email — whatever is most convenient for you.
Best regards,
—khad
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