Will AgileBits move away from local vaults? [AgileBits Answer: Nope. Enjoy your local vaults!]

Megan

Hi @prime,

I appreciate your feedback here, and I can certainly understand the frustration in feeling like you’re paying for something that you don’t need.

Danco is right though, we handled a lot of support requests from users who were unsure which licenses they needed for their computers, and were frustrated when their license didn’t work on all of their desktop computers. This decision was made in the hopes that it would simplify the process for users: you purchase a license and you can use 1Password everywhere you need it. (Granted, the Pro features are still a separate purchase, but we’re moving closer to one purchase = 1Password everywhere.) And so far, it seems to be helping with the confusion.

Me: it's $65
Them: why so high?

Beware, here comes my biased sales pitch. ;)

Yes. Part of the reason that the 1Password app is priced as it is is because it includes two desktop versions of the software. Building and maintaining these apps is a significant investment in development and design time. Beyond that, though, we believe that 1Password is a premium product. That’s a bit of a strong statement, so I’ll do what I can to tell you why we think it’s worth the investment. 1Password is not just a password manager. Not only does the app fill your password information in on websites, it can store a host of other sensitive information locked securely behind AES-256 bit encryption. With multiple vaults you can securely share the data you need with your family and coworkers while keeping your personal data private, and tags ensure that you can keep all this important information organized and available quickly when you need it. 1Password receives frequent updates that add new features and speedily squash bugs. We’ve spent countless hours ensuring that the app is well-designed and user-friendly to use because we want to make secure habits simple. Not only that, but our app is supported 24-7 by a talented team of real live humans who are trained to do what is right by you, our user. We want to make sure that any questions you might have about the app are answered quickly and clearly. I could go on, but I think that’s a good starting point.

Of course, it’s not up to you to sell 1Password to your family and friends (although we really appreciate your advocacy!) This is one of the reasons that we offer the free 30-day trial for the desktop apps: to let users make their own decisions on if 1Password is worth their hard-earned money.

Thanks again for your honest feedback, I hope this helps!

prime

@Megan and @danco

How does 1 license covers both when someone buys 1Password from the Mac App Store? If a person buys 1Password from the Mac App Store, that person must contact you guys to get the Windows license, am I right? So it's actually still 2 difference licenses.

As I said, I love this app. I worked for telecommunications companies for a long, long time. One part of our company deals with cable TV side of things and I see the customers points; "Why do I have to get these channels to get that one channel I actually want?" And this is how it feels.

I also want to try the subscription, I really do. I love the idea of it and I wanted to get the free extra storage too when it 1st came out, but I feel safer controlling how my data is synced. I've read way too much on Keypass and LastPass (the recent 0 day but they caught too), I don't feel safe. Seeing stuff on the dark web, these web based password companies are a target.

http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/lastpass-password-manager.html

And this one

http://thehackernews.com/2014/07/oops-popular-password-managers-are-not.html

danco

Yes, if you buy from the Mac App Store you have to contact AgileBits to get the Windows licence. But it is supplied free. The issue before AgileBits moved to the current approach is that people needing both Mac and Windows had to pay extra.

I understand your point about subscription services. But, given AgileBits are focussed on security, this must be at least as safe as Dropbox (and probably iCloud too). And it is always possible to get the 1PW subscription and not use their web servers (it's the difference between a Primary and a Personal vault).

AGAlumB

@prime: Indeed, Apple won't let us include a license key with the App Store purchase...but that doesn't stop us from giving folks one ourselves if they're entitled to it. :chuffed:

And seriously, read the white paper. AgileBits never has access to your 1Password data. Your data is encrypted locally before it leaves your device, and the server only ever has the encrypted blob. Without the Account Key and Master Password it cannot be decrypted. When you setup your 1Password account, the Account Key is generated locally on your device, the Master Password is chosen by you, and neither are ever transmitted. Be sure to check out the security white paper for more details. Based on some of our previous conversations, I think it's right up your alley. ;)

Thanks for asking the tough questions. We recognize that this way isn't ideal for everyone, but so far it seems that it's better for most folks — and even if you don't like it, you at least understand it, which I think is a step in the right direction. As horrible as it sounds, I think we'd rather have people choose not to purchase 1Password because they understand it and don't feel it's a good fit for them than have a lot of really confused customers who bought the wrong thing.

MilindM

@danco If you are keeping 1Password standalone version then please also keep an option to buy only Windows or Mac or both versions as before.
People who want a single license to cover both OS will get it and so as people who want single OS license and don't own a 2nd OS computer.. buying a bundle is a waste for them. While trying to satisfy one group, you are completely ignoring the other (and most likely a majority) group by not giving an option for a single OS license.
I am sure many single OS customers will simply hold out for a better option.. and which was there before!!!

Megan

Hi @MilindM,

Thanks for the feedback! Don’t worry, as we’ve said earlier in this thread, we have no plans at this time to remove the option to purchase a standalone license for 1Password. We understand that many users prefer to purchase the app itself instead of signing up for a subscription.

However, I can’t promise that we’ll change our licensing again to make it possible to purchase just the Mac or just the Windows version. As mentioned before, our previous license policy caused a lot of confusion. Now that we have the subscription offering in addition to the standalone licenses, well ... it can get a bit overwhelming for new users trying to make a decision. Since we’ve simplified the licensing, we’ve seen a significant reduction in licensing questions from users.

Of course, it’s impossible to say what the future holds. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts here, and we are listening to everything users tell us with respect to licensing. These thoughts will be taken into account when we revisit the issue. :)

MilindM

Please don't assume that many customers are so dumb that they will get confused over which license to buy. First of all , people who would want to buy 1 Password are in the know-how and that's why they consider a password manager.

Seems like by bundling 2 licenses you are forcing the customer to pay more upfront and there by making subscription model look appealing. What else would be the reason to take away an option?

I am sure you know it well that you are now forcing customers to effectively pay for both versions even though the customer might need only one. Earlier there was an option to buy both licenses or just a single license as needed..now why this unnecessary bundling?

Imagine if you go to buy MS Office or Adobe Photoshop and they tell you that they will only sell a license for both platforms and by the way it also costs more!!!!

Many people work on a single platform and will want to buy license for one platform only and if this bundling practice is not changed then they will simply explore alternative apps.

danco

If you had been reading the forums as long as I have (and I am only a user, not an AgileBits employee) you would have found lots of posts complaining that the poster expected the licence to cover all platforms. And I expect that these posts are only a small sample of people expecting that.

I preferred the old approach myself, as I don't expect ever to need a Windows version. But whichever approach AgileBits take, there will be people dissatisfied because they preferred the other.

MilindM

Oh well....someone buying a Windows license and expecting it to work on a Mac - that's very small number of users and most likely they are not even aware of password manager apps.

If you want to satisfy as many users as possible then just give an option to what users want to buy - single OS license or both and make it clear at the time of purchase that this version will work only on that OS - How difficult is that??

The only reason for this new pricing is marketing - trying to artificially inflate price of the standalone version so as to make the subscription model look attractive. Subscription model has it's place but this forced bundling of different OS licenses is just a greedy marketing, and this will turn away many customers.

Just give an option to the users to buy what they want and not what you want to sell.. or else users will simply switch to alternative apps.

prime

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees this issue about the Licenses

Ben

Licensing issues were for a long time one of our top three issues in customer support. We decided to simplify our offerings to reduce this. A 1Password license now is all you need for an individual to use 1Password on all of our supported platforms. The Pro features for mobile are still a separate purchase, and because of how apps are sold on mobile this is still an unfortunate necessity. But one purchase is enough to get you going regardless of what devices you have.

If it doesn't work out we may consider another change, but so far it has been working very well. We've drastically reduced the inflows to CS asking which licenses are needed. The answer is now simple: there is only one license available. We used to be in a place where one of our Team Members could spend an entire day answering nothing but inquiries about which licenses to buy, how licenses worked, etc. We've now freed up those resources to help customers with other questions more quickly.

We didn't want people to think in terms of 1Password for Mac, or 1Password for Windows, or 1Password for iOS. We want people to think in terms of 1Password. You're buying 1Password. Which devices you want to use it on shouldn't be a limiting factor.

Ben

MilindM

That's all marketing mumbo jumbo..... There are better ways to make it clear to customers which license to buy.. and most know at least what OS they are running. People who consider buying a password manager app like 1Password are already well in technical know-how.

By your argument, you are charging more to customers to reduce your customer support calls... with this sneaky practice there won't be many customers left to bother your CS.

Truth is you are making the subscription model look more attractive by artificially raising prices of the standalone version by bundling unnecessary licenses.

How about including a 3rd license for Linux and also a 4th one for Chrome OS all for $200. As your increase the price, number of customers will go down.

For your own Agilebits office will you buy MS Office, Adobe and such productivity software licenses for all possible OS versions or just the one that you want?

Ben

For your own Agilebits office will you buy MS Office, Adobe and such productivity software licenses for all possible OS versions or just the one that you want?

Both of those services work on both major platforms. You don't have to choose between Mac and Windows. It will work on either:

and:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/business/teams/plans.html

Neither limit you based on what platforms you use. You can use either Mac or Windows or both for the same price. Same as we do now.

Ben

prime

BUT I go to 1 spot to get MS Office for any OS. If I get 1Password from the Mac App Store for my Macbook, I have to go someplace else to get a 2nd license for Windows...

Sorry, if a person buys 1Password from the Mac App Store, are they really trying to put it on a Windows computer?

Ben

I don't understand the argument. The problem is that in order to get the Windows component you have to email us when purchasing from the Mac App Store? Unfortunately we can't control that. That is a limitation of the Mac App Store.

Ben

prime

@Ben Because you keep saying it's 1 license, but how can it be when a person who gets 1Password from the Mac App Store (1 license), and has to email to get the Windows one (a 2nd license), am I right?

Ben

It is one purchase.

Ben

MilindM

Oh ... Ben, you are showing subscription license for Office 365 instead of standalone license. looks like you are deliberately mixing the 2 things in order to make your point.

MS Office does sell only windows or mac standalone license along with 0ffice 365...they are giving options to customers to buy what they want!!!

khad

I guess the pricing model was so complicated Ben had a hard time making heads or tails of it. ;)

elyscape

@khad wrote:

And the big one: 1Password Security Design White Paper [PDF]

This currently doesn't appear to have any documentation on the local data format, in contrast to OPVault and Agile Keychain. Is this something that's in the works?

khad

@elyscape,

With regard to local vaults, nothing has changed. They still use the OPVault design by default (and the .opvault file format, specifically, for Dropbox syncing).

The security design of the local cache for 1Password account vaults is the same as what is stored on the server and described in the section "How Vault Items Are Secured" (beginning on p. 14).

If you have a specific question about the format, it would probably be best to start a new thread. We'd be happy to discuss it further. As I hope our white paper helps illustrate, we love talking about these sorts of things. :)

teamnoir

I will never use an online service for my passwords. You simply cannot provide the level of security that I demand with that model. If I wanted the government to have access to all of my data, I wouldn't be using password security in the first place.

That you folks are moving away from the local model and jacking the prices on the things I want, that's depressingly sad news. That means I'm going to have to leave you and find some other solution. You really should be making this news louder so those of us who need the more secure approaches can have some notice.

Also, you could have left the single platform license at the same price and offered a discount for the "upgrade" to the bundled license. If it were, say, $20, then you'd make $70 on a single plus upgrade and those of us who are strictly invested in a single platform would still have our same old prices. Bundles would still be $65, so a better deal that single + upgrade. From my perspective, it looks like we're losing functionality and the price is going up for that loss.

Ben

Hi @teamnoir!

If I wanted the government to have access to all of my data, I wouldn't be using password security in the first place.

"The government" does not have access to any of your data (neither does AgileBits). Your encryption keys are created locally and are never transmitted.

That you folks are moving away from the local model

We aren't! It is still there for folks who want it. :)

and jacking the prices on the things I want, that's depressingly sad news.

A 1Password license, which includes 1Password for Windows and 1Password for Mac, is actually now less expensive than our previous 1Password for Mac+Windows bundle was.

Also, you could have left the single platform license

No. We couldn't. :( We tried selling them separately for a long time. That just wasn't working for us. A la carte is great for folks who understand their needs. A single offering that covers everything is what was expected by a large percentage of our users.

The change had to be made.

From my perspective, it looks like we're losing functionality and the price is going up for that loss.

Where is functionality being lost? :) If anything we've still been adding to the apps right along.

Thanks for the feedback!

Ben

teamnoir

Where is functionality being lost?

1PasswordAnywhere is lost. The ability to access my vault from unsupported machines is lost.

And apparently, the ability to enter arbitrary records from ios is now lost as well.

khad

@teamnoir,

1PasswordAnywhere is lost. The ability to access my vault from unsupported machines is lost.

Dropbox removing the ability to run 1PasswordAnywhere on their servers is not related to debut of optional 1Password subscription plans in any way. The timing — while unfortunate — was entirely coincidental. That said, 1PasswordAnywhere still functions if you run it locally. Put a copy of a vault in the Agile Keychain format on a USB flash drive (which I would presume you would prefer to Dropbox anyway, since Dropbox is a cloud hosting service). Then you can access your data in a browser locally.

Alternatively, folks can sign up for a 1Password account and have full (read and write) access to your data on 1Password.com, but you've already mentioned you're not interested in that.

For anyone else coming across this discussion, I do want to point out that 1Password accounts all have an additional, non-optional factor to keep your account secure. We call it the Account Key, and it's a 128-bits random string of letters and numbers. It is combined with your Master Password to harden the encryption. It is impossible to decrypt the data without the Account Key, and 128 bits is uncrackable in the age of the known universe. Learn more about the Account Key.

And apparently, the ability to enter arbitrary records from ios is now lost as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Nothing has changed on iOS. I create items in 1Password in all different categories all the time on iOS. If you're having some trouble, could you please start a new discussion in the iOS category of this forum? We'd love to get it working as well for you as it is for everyone else. :+1:

UPDATE: I see you have already created a discussion in the iOS category and Megan has replied. We'll continue the discussion there until everything is sorted out. :)

prime

So I was thinking of buying my wife a 1Password Windows License (work computer)... but now I get a Mac one with it (which I already have 3...).

khad

@prime, I'm only seeing one license in our system, but that's just based on the email address you used when you signed up for this forum. Send an email to support@agilebits.com and put my name in the subject line: "Khad Young". That will allow us to discuss your license details privately and best accommodate you. :)

prime

I have one under my daughter email, and my wife got one from iTunes. Now if you include all the gifts, there's about 3 more lol.

The main part is, I would have paid the $49.99 for this Windows license. I actually went on line to see if it was still $49.99 and totally forgot about all of this. My wife is getting a permotion and she uses 1Password a lot, but it's hard because she uses her iPhone to get the info. I thought it would be a nice congratulations gift to make her life a littler easier at work.

I'll still email you, and appreciate this.

khad

@prime,

Congrats to your wife! I'm looking forward to your email, so we can get things sorted out for you. :)