Thoughts on Licenses vs Subscriptions
Comments
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@brenty You said, "As much as we hear from folks who don't like subscriptions, we don't hear a lot of good reasons why."
I'm a bit confused by that. It seems several folks right in this thread have stated clearly, and with good reasons, why they do not want to incur another revolving monthy fee...another monthly expense they have to manage and keep track of. Beyond that, if you do the arithmetic for the new subscription fee, the cost of $4/month represents a $48/year outlay. With tax, you're getting right about at $100 for two years of a subscription 1Password account. $150 for three years. That is certainly more than what a user has had to pay out for major updates of the standalone app. I have been more than happy "surviving" with your minor updates to my standalone app. I do not mind at all that you "hold on" to headline improvements in order to generate a major update that you can charge a one-time fee. That is fair and reasonable. The success, superior functionality, and beauty of your standalone app is perhaps your greatest enemy here! Many of your customers are just too darn satisfied with what they have! So, there are some reasons. They are significant to me.
@brenty You said "But if that's not something you want to support, that's fine; no one is going to take your license away from you."
I understand that no one is going to take away my license for v. 6.X.X. What I, and others, are expressing "proactive dismay" over is the strong chance that once v. 7.X.X is released you will NO longer offer a standalone version of the app, only a subscription version. And that will signal the end of our love affair with 1Password as support for v. 6.X.X can only be expected to last for a very limited time after v. 7.0 is released. I read another article where @dteare explicitely stated that v. 7.X.X was too off in the future to make any promises that AgileBits would continue to offer a standalone version of the app. Indulge me in my pessimism, but that sounds like someone who has little intent in offering a standalone version for v. 7.X.X.
Here's the deal. I am sure many customers will not mind another monthy fee for 1Password added to their credit card. But, I try to not live my life like that. It sounds like other customers of yours are saying the same thing. It's just too easy to "add a little more here"..."add a little more there" before you realize you've found yourself financially over your head with no idea how it happened. So, I am pushing back in the only way I know for now...via this comment thread. Other than that, my only option is the nuclear one...abandoning 1Password when my v. 6.X.X app is no longer supported. I'm just hoping it doesn't come to that. OK?
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It seems several folks right in this thread have stated clearly, and with good reasons, why they do not want to incur another revolving monthy fee...another monthly expense they have to manage and keep track of.
@MisterLuigi: Ah, thanks for clarifying. I figured someone might say that, but not wanting to pay doesn't strike me as a particularly good reason since you don't have to if you don't want to anyway. The cost argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since it sounds like you're comparing monthly payments in aggregate to a one-time upgrade fee, when a single annual payment is a better comparison, since 1Password licenses aren't paid for in monthly installments. And to say a few dollars a month (the price of half a Subway sandwich anywhere I've been) will get you over your head seems exaggerated. Of course, if you're just opposed to subscriptions in general, that's fine and none of this matters. But "I don't like subscriptions" is different than saying it's unaffordable.
You're right though that if we stop offering licenses, you don't want to pay for a subscription, and 1Password 6 breaks, you'd need to figure something out. But while it's good to think ahead, "proactive dismay" seems more like premature stress. After all, 1Password 6 is supported on the current (and 2 earlier) version of macOS. If it breaks, that's probably a ways off, and after we've ceased development on it. 1Password 3 only stopped working normally last year, and it was developed in 2009 (originally for Leopard, if memory serves). We still have customers using it today. I can't promise you 1Password 6 will have that kind of longevity, but we put a lot of care into making apps that aren't fragile or dependent on private APIs and hacks.
And most importantly, when we do cease development on 1Password 6, you'll know, and it won't stop working that day. I don't know the timing of any of this, because it's the future, but I promise you that if we do decide that licenses are going away in a future version of 1Password, it's something we'll talk about publicly well in advance of you needing to abandon what you're already using. I get where you're coming from, but given that we're not certain about future versions we can't offer you the kind of certainly you're looking for right now.
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I can only hope that you will never throw out existing perpetual license holders out of their data because it ceases working with some OS update.
@falconeye: Not at all. I'll echo some of my comments above:
1Password 6 is supported on the current (and 2 earlier) version of macOS. If it breaks, that's probably a ways off, and after we've ceased development on it. 1Password 3 only stopped working normally last year, and it was developed in 2009 (originally for Leopard, if memory serves). We still have customers using it today. I can't promise you 1Password 6 will have that kind of longevity, but we put a lot of care into making apps that aren't fragile or dependent on private APIs and hacks.
And most importantly, when we do cease development on 1Password 6, you'll know, and it won't stop working that day. I don't know the timing of any of this, because it's the future, but I promise you that if we do decide that licenses are going away in a future version of 1Password, it's something we'll talk about publicly well in advance of you needing to abandon what you're already using.I think we've got a pretty good track record in this area, but even with an uncertain future (iMacOS XI?) you'll have advance notice if we decide to stop selling licenses altogether.
Wow. You think we customers buy this kind of argument? Only a minority runs their password manager on both, Windows and Mac. Therefore, for a majority this is a massive price bump which you try to sell as reduction. Wow again.
Think what you want, but most folks use 1Password on PCs and Mac...though perhaps in many cases not by choice (work and all that). A big part of my day historically (and many others) has been helping folks who bought a license for one platform upgrade to add the other. With Mac a strong but small fraction of the overall computer market, it isn't surprising that there's a lot of overlap — at least to me, though perhaps because I'm living that every day myself, both in work and personal life.
First, splitting an app into two is no extra workload given modern tools for software engineering. I only suggested to make it two products to restore at least one product with an acceptable rating score in the Mac App Store. Feel free to ignore the advice.
Oh you're 100% right. That's why I didn't say it would double the workload. But it would mean more work, and and the very least allocating additional resources to testing and supporting both configurations, even if building them just meant clicking a checkbox off or on. But since it wasn't built with that in mind (we're talking about a codebase that began with 1Password 4 in 2012) it would require some refactoring at the very least. For the past year, even sticking to a single Mac app, the confusion offering both licenses and subscriptions has caused users has felt nearly twice as busy, so we'd really just be trading one problem for another and adding additional complexity for users, even if it were a real win for development.
Second, a single cappuccino? Since then does "cappuccino" stand for "cheap"? You name it, your new pricing scheme makes 1Password a luxory item better not to depend upon.
I dunno. I thought people drank cappuccinos. Personally, I prefer a good smoothie, but those tend to be more expensive than what I pay for my subscription. More like streaming prices.
Anyway, I didn't say 1Password is cheap, only that in many cases a subscription is cheaper than buying a bunch of licenses. There are certainly cheap (and free) options out there, but I think 1Password is a premium product and worth paying for (or I never would have paid for it). But in all fairness if you only need to use it on a Mac, the bundle that includes the Windows license would not benefit you or be cheaper. And by the same token an individual subscription would be about 5$ more annually than a license upgrade. So you're right in that case.
While 1Password.com is the best option for most people, there are certainly exceptions, which is why we've continued to offer licenses as well for the past year. Unfortunately while that doesn't mean more development work on our end (it's already in there), it has caused a lot of confusion and frustration for new and existing users alike, so we're no longer marketing licenses. Which is why we're all having this discussion.
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@brenty
thanks again for the discussion. It may have appeared to you that cost is my main argument. It isn't. Not at all. I only mentioned cost because you tried to create the impression that your rental model is cheaper than 1Password was before. Let's ignore that.You asked for a good reason to be against a subscription.
Well, it is all about security. First, it isn't a subscription model, it is a rental model. With a subscription (like a newspaper subscription) I would be able to keep and use what I already have, just no new content when the subscription is terminated. The anaology of a 1Password subscription would be free upgrades during the subscription but the software I receive would never cease to work if I don't change anything else. To be clear: I am against software rental, not against subscriptions!
So, why am I against software rental? Because I have NO security whatsoever about your future pricing schemes (and as I explained, I already seem to observe AgileBits managers become greedy), about a future AgileBits stockholder pricing scheme, about whatever future may bring. Theoretically, a competitor could buy AgileBits and stop the license server to force all users to migrate... All this means possibly holding my data hostage. Ask yourself if you would ever rent Mac OS or Windows? Just for a single cappuccino a month ... OTOH, with a perpetual license you would ask for an upgrade fee based on what cool or productivity new features you implemented.
Of course, as a user of 1Password, it is too late now for me as I would have to switch anyway and then I can wait until it stops working. However, and that's the point, 1Password no longer can be recommended to new users.
The only thing I depend upon (and I do depend on my passwords) I would ever rent is housing. And only because in my country (Germany) the law prevents malicious behaviour of landlords.
And I am sure, for a piece of software with this much competition (you are NOT Adobe) there will be perpetual license alternatives for the majority of people who think like me (cf. again your Mac AppStore rating).
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With a subscription (like a newspaper subscription) I would be able to keep and use what I already have, just no new content when the subscription is terminated.
What you describe as a "rental" is actually how subscription services work. No music subscription service that I am aware of (Apple Music, Google Play Music, Spotify, etc.) allows you to keep any music if you stop paying for it.
And what you describe as a "subscription" is how the standalone licenses work. When a new version comes out, you buy a new license. If you don't buy a new license, you can still use your old one.
However, the fact that we're quibbling over the definitions of words probably means we've gone far adrift from a conversation that will be helpful to you. And the whole point of our replies here is to be helpful. I hope my reply ends up helpful. Let's try a different angle.
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So, why am I against software rental? Because I have NO security whatsoever about your future pricing schemes (and as I explained, I already seem to observe AgileBits managers become greedy), about a future AgileBits stockholder pricing scheme, about whatever future may bring. Theoretically, a competitor could buy AgileBits and stop the license server to force all users to migrate... All this means possibly holding my data hostage. Ask yourself if you would ever rent Mac OS or Windows? Just for a single cappuccino a month ... OTOH, with a perpetual license you would ask for an upgrade fee based on what cool or productivity new features you implemented.
Any software developer selling licenses could greatly increase the cost of a license the next time a new version was released. If you wanted the new features in a new version, you would be strong-armed into paying it, or you would have to forego the new features.
1Password subscription pricing, on the other hand, is locked in. Once you are on a 1Password subscription plan, the price doesn't ever change for you. This is the exact opposite of what you describe.
For example, we have people who are locked in to our early bird pricing plan that was available when 1Password memberships first became available. They don't have to keep track of any future pricing changes because they won't be affected by them. This is true for everyone, including you if you ever want to lock in a great deal you see on a 1Password membership.
So, while every subscription service may not have price protection, 1Password does. Everyone with an active 1Password membership gets all the new features, and they will only ever pay the price they agreed to pay.
And, of course, I've purchased software licenses in the past from developers who were acquired or went out of business. This is almost always because they didn't have sustainable pricing. If you really love a product or a service, don't you want them to be around longterm? That seems to be exactly what you are concerned about, so I'm surprised that you are advocating for a business model that would actually make it less likely for us to be around years from now.
I don't know about you, but I want a password manager that's constantly updated with security improvements and new features, from a company that's going to be around for the long haul. I don't want to be forced to switch tools if there's an acquisition or the company decides that it isn't making enough money from its password management division. I count on 1Password because AgileBits is completely self-funded. We have no outside investors, and we've turned down many offers to sell out. We set sustainable prices for 1Password, so we don't have to rely on investors' money or — worst of all — advertising money at the expense of your privacy.
- 1Password isn't a tiny part of a large corporation. 1Password is all we do. We don't have other products that need our attention, and we don't have investors or advertisers to answer to. Our focus is solely on your needs.
- Our founders are here every step of the way, working daily to make 1Password better by listening to you. We've been around for over a decade already with no plans on slowing down.
- We use 1Password ourselves, and we accept nothing but the best. That's why we're constantly striving to make it better.
A software license model doesn't guarantee anything more than a subscription model. Either way, a company could go out of business. But a business model that is sustainable has a much greater chance of success than one that isn't.
Why we introduced 1Password memberships
The vast majority of all support issues over the years are from folks fighting with advanced syncing options. Everyday users like my uncle (who is an accountant and an overall very smart guy) struggled to get syncing working, or to share vault with others.
Most people are used to services that "just work". They don't spend time syncing their Gmail. They just sign in, and their email is available to them. Now, you and I thought that's what iCloud and Dropbox syncing provided. But it didn't. It was another set of credentials to remember on top of the Master Password. It also limited the sharing options we could provide. Most families have at least some items they want to share: Netflix password, Wi-Fi password, garage door code, etc.
- The WLAN server is at the whim of network configuration issues (routers, software firewalls, etc.), and troubleshooting those kinds of issues is far beyond the capability of most folks. It also doesn't provide any way to share anything with others.
- iCloud doesn't offer a way to share between iCloud accounts, so sharing is also impossible with iCloud.
- Dropbox offers folder sharing, and that's what we were recommending to folks. But the complexity is enormous if you aren't very comfortable with computers. And if something went wrong, half of the setup was being done in a product we have no control over and limited visibility into. People were paying us for a feature that we sometimes couldn't help them get working! It was an awful experience, and we love 1Password customers too much to make them put up with that.
Now, with a 1Password account, you just create a new vault and specify who you want to access it. It "just works". And if you want to share something with your entire family, it's even easier. Just move the item to the built-in Shared vault. That's it. There is literally nothing else to set up.
We created 1Password memberships to make 1Password the best it can be. I'm so much happier now that 1Password has the power of memberships, but I'm only happier because our customers are so much happier.
Here are some other ways 1Password memberships improve things for our customers:
All your data is synced automatically when you sign in, so there's nothing to set up or worry about configuring wrong.
No more telling people that never set up syncing or had it misconfigured that I'm sorry they lost their data when they reset their phone.
Built-in data loss protection means your secrets aren't just safe; they're always available.
No more telling people that I'm sorry that when they deleted some files from their hard drive they didn't realize they inadvertently deleted all their 1Password data.
Syncing is optimized because we do it ourselves. This allows us to not only quickly troubleshoot sync issues, but also improve immediately when a fix is found. All this results in a rock solid solution that eliminates an entire category of issues you could encounter.
No more explaining that we don't have any control or visibility into third party sync solutions and are therefore limited when troubleshooting those kinds of sync problems.
Access 1Password everywhere with a single subscription.
No more explaining why purchasing 1Password on one platform doesn't automatically unlock it on all other platforms. Not only is it really hard for customers to understand that 1Password is "licensed per person, per platform, with paid upgrades", but it's an incredible mouthful for us to even say.
Enjoy new features as soon as they're ready.
No more needing to hold back on features for creating a "big splash" for major upgrades. These require purchasing a license upgrade, and it was important to save up features (often for a year or more) to woo users to open up their wallets.
Recover accounts for family or team members who have forgotten their Master Passwords.
No more explaining to people who have forgotten their Master Password that they need to start over from scratch.
Now, I can't compile a true "no more" list just yet. Not everyone has a 1Password membership, so we still work through those issues every day.
We continue to support everyone managing standalone vaults themselves. After all, we still answer questions from 1Password 3 users, so we're not about to stop answering questions about standalone vaults. But we are going to try to nudge folks in every way possible. All the time spent explaining all of those caveats can be spent making 1Password even better and easier to use for everyone.
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@brenty You said, "The cost argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since it sounds like you're comparing monthly payments in aggregate to a one-time upgrade fee, when a single annual payment is a better comparison, since 1Password licenses aren't paid for in monthly installments.
You have my brain spinning like a reporter at a presidential press conference. Let's pretend I paid $65 for my 1Password license from the Mac App Store. (I actually paid less b/c of a promotion. But this is a thought experiment so let's go with the max amount). With that license, my family is able to run 1Password on my computer, my wife's, and my daughter's. That license should "last" about, what, 2-3 years?...until the next major paid update. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I always have supported 1Password by paying for all major updates. So, every 2-3 years I could anticipate paying $65 for 1Password service. In an effort to compare that to the cost of the new subscription model, I divide that $65 by 24 (36) and get a cost per month of $2.71 ($1.81). Now, what would I have to pay per month if I was going to provide the three members of my family with access to 1Password on the new subscription plan? I believe quite a bit more. Right?! In fact, I would appreciate you telling me exactly what I would have to pay per month if I converted to the subscription service today for my family of three...just so there is no confusion on my part. BTW, I understand that there may be some added functionality that comes along with the subscription plan. But I have already stated that everyone in my family is completely satisfied with the functionality of the current license version of 1Password using iCloud sync.
@brenty You said, "And to say a few dollars a month (the price of half a Subway sandwich anywhere I've been) will get you over your head seems exaggerated. Of course, if you're just opposed to subscriptions in general, that's fine and none of this matters. But "I don't like subscriptions" is different than saying it's unaffordable."
I understand the attraction of comparing the cost of applications to the cost of a cup of coffee or sandwich. But, I would be just as opposed to a coffee or sandwich subscription as I am to app subscriptions. I think that is a better analogy.
It is true, I am not a fan of app subscriptions. Why? Because I own many, many apps. The more developers move to a subscription model the more unwieldy my finances become, IMO. For example, I teach physics for a living. I use many apps to support delivering my content. One is "Explain Everything." It's an awesome whiteboarding application for delivering complex ideas to hungry brains. Recently, this app also has informed its users it will be sunsetting its license model for a subscription model. Another monthly fee! It seems like every time I turn on my computer it happens again...another monthly fee for another app transitioning to a subscription model. Even Nobel laureate Richard Feynman said, "I don't like monthly subscription fees." OK, he really didn't say that. But, if he were alive today I bet he would.
When you add my ever growing pile of subscription fees, which I contend also cost more than the license version of the app they replace, the cost is not trivial.
As far as analogies go, I think the following may help. You and I are like photographers. But you are using an extremely long focal length telephoto lens. It offers you keen insight, understanding, and appreciation for a very small space...your beloved 1Password App. I, on the other hand, am using an extremely short focal length wide angle lens. It doesn't afford me as detailed a view on any one thing. But is does give me considerable insight as to how ALL these pieces, acting at the same time, fit together and affect my life. I do think this explains why you and some of your users see what's happening in such a different way.
I believe there is a growing distaste among the technology user base for the subscription model. Yesterday, I noticed that a well-reviewed photography app, Affinity Photo, is presenting itself in its ads as a Non-Subscription based application. I believe they see this negative view on subscriptions and are going after the market that has been disenfranchised by Adobe CC's subscription scheme. Time will tell if they have chosen the correct path.
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@MisterLuigi, it's a good thing we have not taken away standalone licenses.
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My apologies! I almost missed your question in there. Sorry about that. :)
In fact, I would appreciate you telling me exactly what I would have to pay per month if I converted to the subscription service today for my family of three.
1Password Families is $4.99/month (paid annually) for a family of up to 5 people. Of course, it includes a lot more than what is available — or even possible — with a standalone license (i.e. servers for easier sharing, recovery, etc.). The full
list is available here: https://support.1password.com/why-account/As with anything else in life, it's up to us to demonstrate the value. If you don't think it's worth it, you should definitely stick with your standalone license. :+1:
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@MisterLuigi: It looks like khad already addressed your comments, and while I'm not sure that it's fair to view 1Password.com through the lens of other subscription services (we're not charging for those, and I think it's best to judge the cost of each on its own merits), I did want to jump in to thank you for your comments. Very thoughtful, and you — and Richard Feynman — made me smile. Good points. Certainly depending on the use case, different metaphors are better or worse. We each have different needs and have to weigh the costs and benefits in that context. Cheers! :)
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Discussion has been very beneficial although I probably lack the equivalent of 3 university degrees from understanding all of this, but the topic is of interest to me because I'm very junior on the topic and confused by an email I got today. I've been a licensed user for many years and just got an email that my "Trial" is expiring. It appears that relates to a subscription which I have no recollection of ever opting into, but must have in response to something I didn't understand. After reading this forum it appears that I am both a licensed user and a free trial user. Is that even possible? What happens to me when the trial expires? I'm not aware that I've ever used features that are related to the trial subscription. Will life go on without losing my data?
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I wanted to add that I believe the AB crew have performed masterfully on fielding some very difficult criticism and feedback. If you can stick to your values and conviction in the face of this stuff you can certainly stick to it in everyday life. Well done!
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Discussion has been very beneficial although I probably lack the equivalent of 3 university degrees from understanding all of this, but the topic is of interest to me because I'm very junior on the topic and confused by an email I got today. I've been a licensed user for many years and just got an email that my "Trial" is expiring. It appears that relates to a subscription which I have no recollection of ever opting into, but must have in response to something I didn't understand. After reading this forum it appears that I am both a licensed user and a free trial user. Is that even possible?
@sorcerer2020: Yes! if you purchased a 1Password license, you're entitled to use that version for as long as you have devices to run it on. It never expires. A license, however, is not part of a 1Password.com membership. Those didn't exist until last year. So you won't even have a 1Password account unless you'd signed up for one. But if you did sign up for 1Password.com, you'll have a free trial, which would explain the massage you received. Again, this doesn't impact your data or your existing license. It's just a separate offering:
What are the benefits of a 1Password membership?
What happens to me when the trial expires?
The 1Password.com account will be frozen, which just means you cannot make changes to it. If you go to 1Password Preferences/Settings > Accounts, that will show you if you've signed in to one there. If you haven't, you're not even using it. And in that case, you can completely ignore the email notification as it doesn't affect you.
I'm not aware that I've ever used features that are related to the trial subscription. Will life go on without losing my data?
If you're using local vaults (probably called "Primary") and you've registered the app with your license, the 1Password.com account freezing won't have any impact on any of that.
I wanted to add that I believe the AB crew have performed masterfully on fielding some very difficult criticism and feedback. If you can stick to your values and conviction in the face of this stuff you can certainly stick to it in everyday life. Well done!
Thank you for the kind words! This stuff is supremely important to us from a number of different angles: as a business, as a software company, and as users ourselves. We love what we do and being able to get it out there for others to use, and we'd love nothing more than to keep on making 1Password better for all of us. 1Password.com memberships are a great way to enable that on all fronts, so we're happy to have that option out there for folks who want it. :chuffed:
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