Best sync option

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giantkingsquid
giantkingsquid
Community Member

Hello,

I've been using 1Password for at least three years now and have a standalone family license and the (at the time) $20 iPhone app.

Just lately Dropbox has changed their ToS to limit a maximum of two computers on their free tier. Now I only used Dropbox to sync my 1 Password vault across 3 macs, 2 windows PCs and an iPhone so i'm not going to pay $14/mo to sync 1Password, thanks Dropbox.

So I've changed to OneDrive. Well sort of, as OneDrive sync is not supported on iOS. So I've setup a WLAN sync server on my headless Mac Mini. Now I've discovered that you have to actually unlock the 1Password on the WLan server to get it to sync. This is ridiculous. It means I have to remote in, log in, open 1Password and unlock it. Each and every time I change something in my vault!

You guys need a sync solution that is properly cross platform, and don't say sign up for an account. You need to reward your long serving, long paying customers, not squeeze every cent out of them.

I see this was brought up in February, has their been any progress made on this? https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/58738/is-there-a-way-to-wifi-sync-without-having-to-unlock-1password-on-the-mac

It seems to be that the easiest would be to either a) get iCloud syncing happening on Windows, or b) get OneDrive syncing happening on iOS.

Or please do tell me if I'm over complicating things and I can use "magisync" to sync across all my devices.

And while I'm whinging, how about a Linux client, then I could use it on my two Ubuntu machines rather than sending passwords via s/mime emails and copy/pasting.

Tom


1Password Version: 6.5.3 & 4.6.1.617
Extension Version: 4.6.2
OS Version: 10.6.8, 10.12.2, 10.10.5, Win 10 1607 x2
Sync Type: You tell me.

Comments

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    So I've changed to OneDrive. Well sort of, as OneDrive sync is not supported on iOS. So I've setup a WLAN sync server on my headless Mac Mini. Now I've discovered that you have to actually unlock the 1Password on the WLan server to get it to sync. This is ridiculous. It means I have to remote in, log in, open 1Password and unlock it. Each and every time I change something in my vault!

    @giantkingsquid: It may feel ridiculous, but I think it's important that 1Password be unlocked in order for the data to be accessed. Better safe than sorry. And it doesn't seem like, based on your use, WLAN Server is really just not a good fit and you're pushing the limits of your shoehorn. ;)

    You could totally leave 1Password unlocked on the Mac mini...but please, please don't. I'm just throwing that idea out there to hopefully help put this in perspective. I can't imagine you'd ever want to do that, and of course that's why it's important for 1Password to remain locked and only transmit data once you've unlock it.

    You guys need a sync solution that is properly cross platform, and don't say sign up for an account. You need to reward your long serving, long paying customers, not squeeze every cent out of them.

    We have one, and it's pretty great; and I think the free upgrades to 1Password for Mac versions 5 and 6 say otherwise, with regard to cost.

    It seems to be that the easiest would be to either a) get iCloud syncing happening on Windows, or b) get OneDrive syncing happening on iOS.

    Apple does not offer CloudKit on Windows, so that's really not an option. OneDrive is more interesting, especially with Microsoft's recent interest in being cross platform, but really that could easily end up just like Dropbox and there's nothing we can do about it.

    Or please do tell me if I'm over complicating things and I can use "magisync" to sync across all my devices.

    You really are. I understand why, but you're asking us to support yet another sync solution that we ultimately have no control over — and this is after you've moved away from Dropbox due to some changes they've made. I hope you can appreciate the irony. So while we'll certainly continue to consider other options for future versions, we really need to prioritize the key technologies that we have control over ourselves, so we're not at the mercy of something out of our control to give our customers a good sync experience, whether that be Dropbox, iCloud, OneDrive...or whatever LAN setup you're using. You know where this is going, but it isn't without reason: 1Password.com allows us to give 1Password users the sync and sharing experience they've been asking us for for years. It isn't perfect. We're not, after all. But we can fix things when they break, and we can deliver on our promises for real, without having to hope a 3rd party doesn't change things up on us.

    And while I'm whinging, how about a Linux client, then I could use it on my two Ubuntu machines rather than sending passwords via s/mime emails and copy/pasting.

    1Password.com, while not the native app you'd probably like (and, arguably, deserve), gets you part of the way there by allowing you to access your 1Password data securely in the browser. It's decidedly less convenient than app/extension, but much moreso than email.

    Now, to be clear, I wouldn't expect you to subscribe based on web access. It's nice to have, but I can't promise you a native Linux app. But automatic item versioning, built in sync, and access to all of the apps, I feel, makes it very worthwhile. In the end, though, it's up to you to decide that. I just hate for you to have to suffer with that sort of predicament when there's a better solution.

  • XIII
    XIII
    Community Member
    edited December 2016
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    Just lately Dropbox has changed their ToS to limit a maximum of two computers on their free tier.

    I'm using Dropbox, but I'm not aware of this limitation (checked the current TOS and the Feb 2017 update).

    Can you please share a link to the relevant documentation?

    (Would be a real bummer if they follow Evernote on this aspect)

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    @XIII: I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't been able to find any official information on this, just anecdotal. So far this seems to be something they're testing on a limited basis, and I'm not sure if it's regional or a random-user-selection sort of thing. As far as I can tell, none of my accounts are affected, but I'll see if and when I need to add more devices.

  • giantkingsquid
    giantkingsquid
    Community Member
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    https://dropbox.com/help/9265

    I'm in Australia; we must be one of the lucky regions.

  • giantkingsquid
    giantkingsquid
    Community Member
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    I can't work out how to quote you on these forums @brenty so bear with me:

    Don't worry I won't be leaving 1Password open on the mini! It seems ridiculous because the other sync solutions: Dropbox, Onedrive, CloudKit don't require this unlocking. Is there any reason why WLAN syncing cannot be done securely without unlocking 1Password?

    I don't think MS will muck around too much with OneDrive, it's not their main business, it is DropBox's. You're right, Apple does not offer CloudKit on Windows but they do offer iCloudDrive. Is that an option? That's two sync providers that are not (primarily) earning their crust from this service so do not have to monetise it in the same way DropBox does. Worth investigating in my opinion.

  • XIII
    XIII
    Community Member
    edited December 2016
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    Thanks! So Dropbox is indeed copying Evernote in some countries:

    We now allow some users to link up to two computers to their Dropbox accounts. This may be true if:

    • You have a Dropbox Basic (free) account
    • You live in one of the countries where we have enabled this limit

    Ouch. Luckily AgileBits has enabled custom sections in the Windows 6 App, so I can migrate to 1Password.com syncing.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    @giantkingsquid: No problem. I'm here. :)

    Thanks so much for the link! This part may take the sting out for a lot of people:

    There is no limit to the number of mobile devices you can link, and you can still access your account without limitation on dropbox.com.

    So it sounds like, at least right now, the limit is on two computers.

    Don't worry I won't be leaving 1Password open on the mini! It seems ridiculous because the other sync solutions: Dropbox, Onedrive, CloudKit don't require this unlocking. Is there any reason why WLAN syncing cannot be done securely without unlocking 1Password?

    Great question! We want to make sure that your data is encrypted and that the encryption keys are cleared from memory when you're not using 1Password, so in order for it to sync the changes to your data data, you need to unlock it with your Master Password.

    I don't think MS will muck around too much with OneDrive, it's not their main business, it is DropBox's.

    Well...I used to have a lot more OneDrive storage, and before that it was called "SkyDrive". :lol:

    You're right, Apple does not offer CloudKit on Windows but they do offer iCloudDrive. Is that an option?

    iCloud Drive doesn't support the kind of granular, efficient syncing that CloudKit does. Certainly it's something we'll continue to evaluate, especially as Apple continues to develop it. But with iCloud Drive heading in the direction of not having files available locally by default, I'm not sure that's really in the cards. CloudKit, on the other hand, was created with exactly the kind of database sync we're doing in mind, so this is officially supported and, as a result, works rather well -- especially compared to the old iCloud.

    That's two sync providers that are not (primarily) earning their crust from this service so do not have to monetise it in the same way DropBox does. Worth investigating in my opinion.

    That's certainly an interesting way of looking at it, and I think that's a fair point. But I feel like the counterargument is much stronger: that a company whose revenue depends on their sync service has greater incentive. Either way though, these are companies which are going to make decisions that are in their own best interest and not necessarily 1Password's, so it's a bit of a crapshoot hitching our wagon to any of these horses.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    @XIII: I had exactly the opposite reaction...but I too am glad that the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app ("finally") has the full item editor we've been working on!

  • giantkingsquid
    giantkingsquid
    Community Member
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    So I've made a work around for this to keep me sane until something better comes along.

    I did look into the capabilities of a 1Password account for syncing and I don't think it meets my needs, especially as AFAIK it cannot accept attachments. I keep heaps of stuff in my 1P vault, copies of passports attached to my passport, driver's licenses and most importantly I attach my web server and s/mime certificates to a 1password "password" with the password being for the private key for the cert.

    So what I did:

    -Turned off the WLAN server
    -Reinstalled Dropbox on the mac mini
    -Created a new folder in Dropbox called "1P"
    -Downloaded Sync Folders from the Mac App Store
    -Used it to sync my OneDrive 1Password folder with my new Dropbox 1P folder
    -Tested it from all devices in both directions and it seems flawless and quick enough. If I make a change on my iPhone it is reflected on my MBA within about 15 seconds.

    So in that example it's going from iOS > Dropbox > Mac Mini > Sync Folders > One Drive > MBA OR Windows PC

    Convoluted hey!

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    @giantkingsquid: Just to clarify, while 1Password.com does not have attachments, it uses Documents instead. A bit different, enough that not everyone prefers it, but something to consider.

    That's certainly an interesting setup you've come up with. I'm glad to hear that's working for you! Just be sure to make regular backups, as with so many links in the chain there may be a higher probability of something going wrong at some point. Cheers! :)

  • BruceB
    BruceB
    Community Member
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    I don't think I'm affected by the Dropbox two-computer limit, but I wanted to note that my wife and I share a 1Password vault that is synced via a shared Dropbox folder. So if you happened to have two Dropbox accounts, using a shared folder across accounts offers a way to get this working on more than two computers. I've had two Dropbox accounts (and two OneDrive accounts and two Box accounts) for years, tied to two different email accounts, one used primarily for personal use and another for work (self-employment work, so not an employer's email). These are accessed via different user accounts on the same computer (Macs, not Windows). However, I'm not sure if Dropbox syncs if a user account has been logged into but is not the currently active account, which may or may not be an issue for you. To my knowledge, multiple accounts does not violate Dropbox TOS, but as I've said I've had these for years as a matter of convenience, not trying to "get away with" anything.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
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    @BruceB: That's a really good point. Thanks for sharing! :)

This discussion has been closed.