Entries in a Families 'Shared' Vault marked as Add to apple watch' appear on all watches
I'm not sure if this belongs in the Apple Watch forum or the Families forum. I'll start here - please feel free to re-direct me...
My family makes extensive use of 1Password and we have a Families account (which is great!). We have multiple vaults with different access privileges; some are shared amongst all 4 of us, others between just my wife and I. We all have iPhones and Apple Watches. Unfortunately, when one of us marks an item as 'Show on Apple Watch;' it seems this is implemented by adding an 'Apple Watch' tag to the item. That's fine if the item is in a user's personal vault but if it is in a shared vault then everyone who has access to that vault will see the item on their watch. That is not great at all. Of course we could keep duplicate copies of shared items in our personal vaults and mark those for display on our watches but that is really not a very good approach as you can imagine. Any chance of some improvement in this area such that items in Shared vaults only appear on the watches of the specific people who have set that option on their phones?
1Password Version: 6.5.1
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: iOS 10.2 / watchOS 3.1.1
Sync Type: Families
Comments
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@ChrisJenkins: Indeed, when you mark an item to
Add to Apple Watch(or as a Favorite), this is part of the item itself; and if the item is in a shared vault, that will apply to all of its users. It's certainly something we can consider changing, but this seems to be something which is intuitive and expected by most folks. After all, you're sharing these items, and changes to anything else which is a part of them is reflected for all users who have access to it. Can you tell me more about the use case? I don't tend to add non-personal information to my watch, or share that same personal information with others, so there isn't much overlap in this area for me. I'd be interested to hear some examples.0 -
@brenty Thanks for the response. I’m surprised that people find this intuitive; my family and I certainly do not :-) For sure most (virtually all) aspects of an item are attributes of the item itself and should be part of the item (and so shared with it) and should be visible by everyone who has access to it. But this clearly should not be the case for ‘personal’ attributes such as ‘is it my favourite’ or ‘do I wan’t it displayed on my Apple watch’.
In our specific use case we have 4 people each with their own Personal vaults, a ‘Shared’ vault that everyone can access and a ‘Parents’ vault which only my wife and I have access to. We have almost 600 items of many different kinds stored across these vaults. One off the specific cases are credit/debit cards. My wife and I have several joint credit/debit card accounts but some of the details (PINs, card numbers, security codes) differ between my card and hers. We store all the cards, with suitably distinguishing names, in the ‘Parents’ vault but she wants to ‘favourite’ just hers and I want to favourite just mine. Similarly for what gets displayed on our personal Apple Watches. This is just one example but there are several others.
The concept here is that some (limited) metadata about an item is not really part of the item itself but rather is part of a specific persons view of that item. I think this is the model that is needed in 1Password for a very small amount of specific metadata such as ‘is it my favourite’ and ‘should it be shown on my apple watch’. The ‘inconvenience’ of multiple people having to favourite an item or add it to their watch is far, far less than the ‘convenience’ (not) of having an item level setting that affects everyone who has access to the item. The current implementation and behaviour actively works against the concept of shared vaults and items and forces people to keep things Personal when they should really be shared or to keep multiple copies of items and manually update them all when anything changes.
A good analogy is that of a shared media library (we have one of those as well). Over 17,000 music tracks, all impeccably tagged with comprehensive metadata, and stored in a central shared location. Each person who accesses this media has their own iTunes library containing pointers to all the tracks. But things like ratings/loves are personal to each person. If I rate a track as 5 stars that does not mean that my daughter should also be forced to have it as 5 stars. iTunes properly enforces this separation of 'item' and 'personal view of an item' metadata.
I hope I have explained this clearly and made a good case for a design change in this area.
Regards, Chris
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Thanks for the response. I’m surprised that people find this intuitive; my family and I certainly do not :-) For sure most (virtually all) aspects of an item are attributes of the item itself and should be part of the item (and so shared with it) and should be visible by everyone who has access to it. But this clearly should not be the case for ‘personal’ attributes such as ‘is it my favourite’ or ‘do I wan’t it displayed on my Apple watch’.
@ChrisJenkins: Haha fair enough. That's the real challenge, making it intuitive for everyone. An impossibility, really, but we'll keep trying to find the best balance. :blush:
Where we really run into trouble is changing something like this that is how 1Password has always worked since, even for folks who don't find it "intuitive", they may simply be used to it working that way. And it sounds like you'd want this changed only for shared vaults, perhaps only in 1Password.com, and that muddies things even further, since then each of us has to take into account the vault type and sharing status as well. Certainly it isn't perfect now, but as confusing as you find it to be, we need to avoid potentially causing more confusion.
In our specific use case we have 4 people each with their own Personal vaults, a ‘Shared’ vault that everyone can access and a ‘Parents’ vault which only my wife and I have access to. We have almost 600 items of many different kinds stored across these vaults. One off the specific cases are credit/debit cards. My wife and I have several joint credit/debit card accounts but some of the details (PINs, card numbers, security codes) differ between my card and hers. We store all the cards, with suitably distinguishing names, in the ‘Parents’ vault but she wants to ‘favourite’ just hers and I want to favourite just mine. Similarly for what gets displayed on our personal Apple Watches. This is just one example but there are several others.
Ah, that's interesting. We store personal accounts (as in ones where we don't share all account details, as we do with the bank) in our own Personal vaults. This way, Favorite or not, I don't accidentally use the wrong card, or clutter up each other's lists for filling in the first place. So it's good to know that you're using it differently as we try to figure out ways of improving this.
The concept here is that some (limited) metadata about an item is not really part of the item itself but rather is part of a specific persons view of that item. I think this is the model that is needed in 1Password for a very small amount of specific metadata such as ‘is it my favourite’ and ‘should it be shown on my apple watch’. The ‘inconvenience’ of multiple people having to favourite an item or add it to their watch is far, far less than the ‘convenience’ (not) of having an item level setting that affects everyone who has access to the item. The current implementation and behaviour actively works against the concept of shared vaults and items and forces people to keep things Personal when they should really be shared or to keep multiple copies of items and manually update them all when anything changes.
That makes sense, and certainly something we'll have to evaluate as more and more folks share data thanks to 1Password.com. But it's fundamentally different than 1Password has worked for the past 10 years. I and many others have done this for years using Dropbox, but it makes sense that we'll encounter different use cases like this as more and more people take advantage of sharing now that it's so easy.
A good analogy is that of a shared media library (we have one of those as well). Over 17,000 music tracks, all impeccably tagged with comprehensive metadata, and stored in a central shared location. Each person who accesses this media has their own iTunes library containing pointers to all the tracks. But things like ratings/loves are personal to each person. If I rate a track as 5 stars that does not mean that my daughter should also be forced to have it as 5 stars. iTunes properly enforces this separation of 'item' and 'personal view of an item' metadata.
Ah, interesting! That is a good analogy! We've got a single music library with shared ratings/playcounts/etc. Maybe I'm just old and started using it before that way became possible. :lol:
I hope I have explained this clearly and made a good case for a design change in this area.
You have, and I really appreciate it! This isn't something we'll change overnight, as it can have ramifications for users of 1Password, both old and new, but it's something we're thinking about a lot. :)
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