Recovery from local backups

Markus73

Some previous discussions have raised questions about local backups of data in 1Password Family. The scenarios I'm concerned about are e.g. a family organizer getting hacked, which could allow the hacker to even delete personal vaults by removing family members. Or, unlikely as it may be, an issue affecting 1Password as a company.

It seems there is currently no way to backup Family data from within the 1Password application as would happen with the standalone version. To me this is not necessarily a problem as long as I can reliably restore and use data from system-wide backups (say, Time Machine, CrashPlan, etc.).

What do I need to do to be sure that I can always recover local, user-controlled backups of 1Password Family data so that it can be used with the 1Password standalone application?

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1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Frank

Hi @Markus73 - Thank you for reaching out to us. You still have the ability to export your data from within the 1Password apps. Once your data leaves 1Password, it's no longer encrypted. Make sure you save the file to an encrypted hard drive if you wish to create a back up on your own. I will include a link below that might be helpful -

https://support.1password.com/export/

Let me know if that helped or if you have any further questions. Have a great day!

Markus73

Hi @Frank, thanks for the info. Your suggestion is fine for manually backing up data. But here is the problem: it cannot be easily and reliably automated, especially considering that an intermediate step involves unencrypted data.

The workable solutions for me would be to either support secure auto-backups similar to what the standalone app already does. Or to make sure that locally stored 1Password Family data can be easily recovered from system-wide backups. Fully automated, secure, local backups are a strong requirement for me. There are just too many scenarios where intentional or accidental events could lead to loss of data.

Frank

Hi @Markus73 - One of the benefits of signing up for a Families account is we take care of all the backups for you. So there is no need to worry about creating a backup but I understand where you're coming from. As of right now, exporting the data is the only way to accomplish this. I don't have a roadmap to provide you with but it's definitely something we are looking into. Sorry for not having a better answer for you at the moment but I do appreciate your feedback and for sharing your request. Have a fantastic day!

Markus73

Hi @Frank, it's certainly a great feature to handle backups for Family accounts on your side, too. Many users lack the technological skill to properly backup their data themselves so that's an improvement.

I've been happily using 1Password for almost 6 years now and expect that 1Password Family, which already looks very nice online, will eventually replace my standalone version. But I'll probably wait for support of local backups, which is the only true showstopper for me right now. Given the amount of sensitive data in my vaults, losing access to it would be comparable to my house burning down: a highly unlikely event, for sure, but so horrendously costly that I wouldn't want to go without insurance (i.e. additional backups fully under my control).

Frank

Hi @Markus73 - I completely understand . I don't have a timeline when or if this will be implemented. I hope you continue to enjoy the trial and test driving all the features. Keep us posted if you have any further questions :+1:

Have a fantastic day!

overcookedTOFU

Hi Frank,

I just wanted to follow up and give this feature my support. From my perspective, lack of support for encrypted, automated local backups is the biggest thing holding me back from using 1Password 6 and your new syncing service.

I know that your service is well designed and competently managed with backups of all my data. However, given that even huge companies running cloud services that are relied upon by hundreds of other companies like Google and Amazon have had data loss events, I simply cannot afford to rely on a cloud-based service that has no way to do local backups.

I understand that all of the 1Password Family/Teams clients have a cache of the existing data on the local disk. Since it sounds like implementing a specific feature to address the need for local backups is a long way off, can you write a support article documenting 1) what files and folder I would need to back up (via rsync or something like that) on my mac or windows PC and 2) how to restore those files at a later date?

Thanks!

Frank

Hi @overcookedTOFU - Thank you for letting us know. As I mentioned previously you can export your data if you want to create an additional backup - https://support.1password.com/export/

Keep in mind, once your data leaves 1Password it's no longer encrypted. Make sure you save the file on an encrypted hard drive.

Yes, it is true the data is cached within the apps but the data is not stored locally on your device. At this time, there are no files or folders to backup. I can understand the need to create backups on your own but at this time, we don't have an automated way of doing this at the moment. I appreciate the feedback and again thank you for letting us know this is something you would like to see in the future. Enjoy the rest of your day :-)

overcookedTOFU

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the quick feedback. It seems to me that given 1Password's mission is protecting valuable credentials better than a passwords.txt, an unencrypted backup is almost worse than none at all. Perhaps in addition to a feature allowing automated backups, you could add support for encrypted backups to the export feature.

I appreciate the care and thought that has gone into designing the 1Password online service, but unfortunately I have learned from experience that "trust us, we know what we are doing" is not a backup strategy.

Thanks.

Roman

@overcookedTOFU - We hear you! Frank mentioned that automated backups the way you imagine them are - at this time - not possible. But it's something we might consider for the future. Thanks for putting down your vote, we appreciate it! :)

cobleigh

Hi. I just saw the 1Password 6.6 update and was considering moving to 1Password for Families. But, after reading this thread, I can tell you that this is a showstopper for me. Unless I can backup my data automatically as others are requesting, I cannot use 1Password for Families.

rickfillion

Thanks for the feedback @cobleigh. It really is something we want to provide.

Rick

cobleigh

@rickfillion: Thanks for the response. One thing I've always liked about 1Password was that I felt I owned my data. Things were stored locally, encrypted. I could manage backups so that I could restore things myself. You published your data format so that we could get at our data.

Some of the recent changes seem to have taken steps back from this point. Looking at this thread, the Families model seems to have backed away from backups. Looking at the thread "Documents not stored offline with 1Password Account", it looks like documents are not automatically downloaded to computers. Basically, you want me to trust the uptime of your servers. I trust your company. I trust your software. I trust your servers for security. I don't trust that your servers will always be there. At the end of the day, I want my data on my computer all the time. You can back things up, but don't take away my ability to do so. If your servers go down, don't leave me without my passwords and documents.

rickfillion

@cobleigh : that's a perfectly understandable stance. The "you own the data" thing is still something that we truly believe. We need to make changes on our end to make good with that with 1Password.com.

I'm confident that we will do so, but I completely understand that from your perspective it's "don't tell me you'll do it, show me that it's done."

Rick