Want to sync 1PW locally only, 2 iOS devices to one Mac

simplicityguy · March 2017

So, I like the functionality of 1PW. It seems to be the only Mac and iOS pw manager that you can sync locally among devices.

I disdain 'teams' and subscription software, which is where this product is going. I would like to stop updating it where it is now and continue using the product, but sync locally instead of 'cloud'. I'm just one loyal many-years user with multiple devices who appreciates the functionality but I feel I'm being shoved out.

It appears WLAN is the only way I can keep the master 1PW file on my mac and sync iOS devices to it. The support page https://support.1password.com/wlan-server/ contains confusing language. Notes indicate what user can't do instead of what you CAN do.

Note 3 says: "The WLAN server can’t sync two or more mobile devices directly." The following paragraph says "Follow the steps below to set up the WLAN server on your computer and sync your mobile devices."

Um. It sounds like the Notes say you CAN only sync ONE mobile device, but the following text cited is plural on mobile "devices".

So... which is it? CAN WLAN sync TWO iOS devices to the 1PW vault on the Mac?

If it can only sync one iOS device to 1PW on the Mac, I may as well go back to pen and paper.

1Password Version: 6.5.3
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Mac OS 10.12.3
Sync Type: iCloud but want local
Referrer: forum-search:sync ios mac

danco · March 2017

Note 3 says: "The WLAN server can’t sync two or more mobile devices directly."

I think the key word is "directly".

You can't sync two mobile devices with each other using WLAN, without a Mac playing its part in the process.

But if you have a Mac (as you do) then you can sync both of them to the Mac using WLAN.

At least, that is how I would naturally interpret the wording, I haven't actually used WLAN

Stephen_C · March 2017

@simplicityguy I use the standalone version of 1Password (and, like you, will never use the subscription version of the software) and also use WLAN to sync to both my iPhone and iPad. It works perfectly. (I do ensure that all changes are made only on the Mac, to minimise the risk of conflicts.)

Stephen

simplicityguy · March 2017

@danco, thanks for that input. Maybe that is what they meant, syncing one iOS device with another. I am happy to have the Mac be the host for other devices to sync to it... as i used to do in the days of Palm devices, iPods, etc.

Kind of like going back to POP email...

@Stephen_C, thanks for that confirmation. Have you tried making changes on the iOS devices, then sync to the Mac? I too fear data confusion. I've already had to re-type hundreds of 1PW items thanks to AgileBits. Maybe I give it a try with a test vault first...

Stephen_C · March 2017

@simplicityguy:

Have you tried making changes on the iOS devices, then sync to the Mac?

I believe I have done that before and there was no problem but I'm usually careful to make all changes on the Mac. However, so long as you don't change an item on more than one device there should not be a problem. I've also set up on the Mac a smart folder that will immediately indicate if there are any items that have a conflict field. (I tried to attach a screen shot of the settings but the wretched forum software seems to be playing up again and I was unable to do so. However, it's quite simple to do: set to search all items for Conflict fields are present.)

Stephen

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi @Stephen_C; I'm almost with you on your description... but can't find the conflict fields option. You're saying do a Finder search for this and save the results as a saved search/Smart Folder? There's a long list of parameters Finder can search for but I did not find "field" or "conflict" among them. I also looked in Automator but could not find the option.

AGAlumB · March 2017

@simplicityguy: Thanks for reaching out. I’m sorry for the confusion! The "conflict" data Stephen_C is referring to is within an individual item in your 1Password vault(s). He's just saying that you can use 1Password's search feature to find these, if it comes up.

Just to clarify, WLAN Server is bidirectional, but since there is no single "source of truth" as there is with a cloud sync server, if you're making changes to the same item on multiple devices before syncing them all, you will end up with conflicts since we don't want 1Password throwing out data.

Anyway, I've always preferred the wording "WLAN Server works between a single computer and one or more mobile devices", but that's just me. Cheers! ;)

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi @brenty. Thanks for clarifying. This is a fine enough setup for me. I don't often change data on mobile devices, just view it, and can have the discipline to make changes only on one mobile device at a time, then sync.
So, when I select WLAN syncing in Preferences, what happens? ie, right now my Truth vault is on iCloud. Once I tell the Mac to be the home for the 1PW vault, uh... does the vault move off of iCloud to somewhere on the Mac, or is a new one created?
Given that I want to move to WLAN and get off iCloud, I searched a bit and could not find the steps for removing my vault from the iCloud drive. I don't want it on there anymore after moving to local sync. If this info is on support, please provide the url. Thanks!

Drew_AG · March 2017

Hi @simplicityguy,

So, when I select WLAN syncing in Preferences, what happens?

That just enables the WLAN Server feature in 1Password on your Mac. When you do that, you'll see a code that you'll use when setting up WLAN Server on your iOS devices, and you'll also be able to choose which vaults are included during the sync. Nothing else really "happens" on your Mac, it's just a setting that needs to be enabled so it can be found as the "server" in 1Password on iOS.

Once I tell the Mac to be the home for the 1PW vault, uh... does the vault move off of iCloud to somewhere on the Mac, or is a new one created?

Your 1Password data is already stored locally on your Mac - when you open the 1Password app, the data you see there is coming from the database on your Mac, not from iCloud. The data in iCloud is just a copy of your vault which is used for syncing purposes.

To disable sync with iCloud, open 1Password on your Mac and go to 1Password > Preferences > Sync. Change the sync setting from iCloud to None. If you want to remove your 1Password sync data from iCloud, check the box for "Delete data from iCloud". Then click the Disable Sync button.

I searched a bit and could not find the steps for removing my vault from the iCloud drive. I don't want it on there anymore after moving to local sync.

As I mentioned above, when you disable sync with iCloud, it will give you the option to delete your 1Password data from iCloud. But if you forget to enable that option before clicking 'Disable Sync', don't worry! You can simply go to Help > Troubleshooting > Reset iCloud Data.

I hope this helps! We're here for you if you have more questions. Have a great weekend! :)

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hello All;
So I did this:
1) made a local safety backup in .1pif of 2 vaults
2) Selected to run a WLAN Server in 1PW preferences on the Mac (instructions at: https://support.1password.com/wlan-server/)
3) on iPad, opened 1PW and went to Settings > Sync and tried to follow iOS instructions from web page in step 2, but the instructions don't match Settings in iOS 1PW v6.5.2. Still, I followed what I thought was the intent of the steps, and the number of items in Vault 1 matches 1PW on the Mac. Magically, the second Vault I'd specified to sync in 1PW WLAN preferences has appeared on iPad, I hadn't synced it previously so happy about this.
Then I went to Categories view in iPad and All Items shows a different number than the Vault 1 sync page. Hm. Then went into Settings > Vaults > Always Open To and selected the Vault 1. Back in Categories view the All Items still shows 5 fewer items than the sync page and the Vault in 1PW on the Mac. There is a mismatch in Items for Passwords, Secure Notes, and Logins. Some are not going from Mac to iPad. All Items synced fully when syncing with iCloud. (is this the reference in v6.5.3 to 'item counts not refreshing properly after syncing'?)
4) on iPhone, followed instructions, Item counts in Settings > Vault match the vaults on the Mac. Set Always Open To Vault 1 and All Items count matches sync count and Mac.
5) did not yet try to turn sync off and delete icloud data due to the problem with iPad sync.

So... I followed same procedure with both iDevices, running their latest OS, and one device syncs all Items from 1PW on Mac, the other does not, though both indicate the same number of items on the Settings > Vaults > [specified vault] Items count.

Any idea why the difference in iPad vs. iPhone? is it the bug addressed in the notes for the 1PW 6.5.3 update?

Thanks!

Drew_AG · March 2017

Hi @simplicityguy,

So, to be sure I understand: On your iPhone, the item count for the Primary vault matches your Mac. But on your iPad, the item count for the Primary vault in the Categories view does not match your Mac (even though it matches when you go to Settings > Vaults > Primary). Is that correct?

Since you have multiple vaults, let's double-check to make sure you're looking at the same thing on both your Mac and iPad:

On your Mac, open 1Password and switch to the Primary vault (using the vault switcher in the top left corner of the window).
On your iPad, open 1Password and go to the Categories view, then tap the vault switcher icon near the top and choose Primary.

If the number next to 'All Items' is lower on your iPad than on your Mac, try switching to the secondary vault on your iPad (from the Categories view, tap the vault icon near the top and choose your second vault). Now switch back to the Primary vault again. If the item count for Primary still doesn't match your Mac, double-click the Home button on your iPad, swipe up on the 1Password app to quit it, then reopen 1Password again. Go back to Categories and make sure you're viewing the Primary vault. Does the item count match now, or is it still less than on your Mac?

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi Drew_AG; yes, first paragraph is correct.

Over the weekend, I did some of the steps you suggest, and for now they all match, but...

Just now I added one secure note on the Mac as a test, went to resync both idevices, and at first got 1) a message that the Mac could not be found, then 2) Primary and Secondary Vaults say 'Syncing...' on iPad and iPhone, but iPad secondary Vault still says WLAN. Hm.

Aha. So, I switched off my VPN connection on the Mac and I did not get the Mac not found message, and syncing appeared to take place but the new test note does not appear on the iDevices....

Quit and relaunched 1PW on Mac. iDevices sync again appears to happen but new note is not there.

Quit 1PW on iPhone, relaunched and logged in, syncs by itself and new note IS there. Modified name of note on iPhone and saved it, synced back up to Mac. Change did not sync to iPad until I quit 1PW and reopened and logged in. Changed the note on iPad, it automatically sync'd to Mac in seconds, but iPhone did not get it until I went in and initiated a sync, even then it took a good minute or so to sync.

Anyway, I'm getting a better handle on this, thanks for the help, it's a bit clunky but I feel better about keeping my data local and using a standalone non-subscription app.

Disable Sync and delete iCloud went smoothly but I have no way to know if it's really deleted from iCloud since I couldn't find it in the first place.

Want to test later if they will sync while all logged in to same VPN server.

Hope AB gets a chance to update the WLAN iOS instructions to match the current flow of steps/option names etc.

Many Thanks to all posters to this thread. Making progress.

rickfillion · March 2017

Hi @simplicityguy,

Typically changes from one iOS device will sync to another iOS device without needing to quit or doing anything special. The iOS device first syncs with the Mac, which should then broadcast a notice to all devices listening on Bonjour that something has changed and they should trigger sync again.

If you can look in the console logs in Console.app and search for "2bu" which should filter it to just 1Password mini logs, I'd be curious to know if when the first iOS device syncs to the Mac the Mac logs anything about updateTXTRecordDictionary. This is what should end up poking all the other iOS devices to have them sync up too.

Rick

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi @rickfillion;
I am a Console basic user... In the left column is Devices and Reports. I tried selecting the Mac Device, searched for 2bu and there were no results.
Same with Reports > system.log
Same with Reports > ~/Library/Logs > 1Password

so... not quite 'getting it' so far... ;-)

rickfillion · March 2017

Hi @simplicityguy,

Select the Mac's name under Devices then search for "2bu" in the upper right. Then do the change on the iOS device and see if it shows up on the Mac, then look at the console app to see what showed up.

Rick

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi @rickfillion;
I followed the steps, the change on iPad showed up within seconds on 1PW on the Mac, but selecting my Device and searching for 2bu, with or without quote marks, only reveals three lines from 10 minutes earlier having to do with iCloud and Powerpoint.

rickfillion · March 2017

Looks like the log statement I'm looking for only actually shows up in the log files. You would need to select ~/Library/Logs/1Password, then select the 2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword4-helper.log.

Here's what it looks like on my system:

Mon Mar 20 13:59:57 2017| 670001 [WIFI:(Main Thread):<OPWiFiSyncServer: 0x6080001a4440>] S updateTXTRecordDictionary | Updating TXT Record to {
    build = 670001;
    name = LogicBook2016;
    updated = "511729197.451534";
    uuid = "92B80DA1-BEA2-40B8-A314-BA19D83CF72E";
}

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi @rickfillion; In ~/Library/Logs/1Password I do not have such named log. Only "1Password.log", "1PasswordAgent.log", "diagnostics.log" and four app specifi logs, two of which have nothing to do 1PW (two are web browsers).
Clicking on each log, with nothing in the upper right search field, and scrolling down, one log ends in 2011, the next in 2014, the others in 2011 or 2010.
So... somehow no logging is occurring? I looked to see if there was a 1PW Preferences setting for this and don't see one.
In any case, the WLAN syncing seems to be working.
Please LMK if you think lack of logging is an issue. Thanks!

rickfillion · March 2017

@simplicityguy : sorry, i should have been more specific. In Console.app, it should have a section for ~/Library/Logs

Rick

simplicityguy · March 2017

@rickfillion; Yes, I'm looking at the same folder in Console on my Mac and the column with the log list is very different, as noted above, and ends years ago. Weird.

rickfillion · March 2017

@simplicityguy : should probably have asked this a few messages ago... are you using the Mac App Store version of the app, or the one from our Website? That'd change things.

Rick

simplicityguy · March 2017

@rickfillion; Mac App Store version.... MAS version does not create activity logs?

off to walk the dog, back after dinner in couple of hours. Thanks for your patience...

rickfillion · March 2017

@simplicityguy : it does, but they're in a different location... ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Logs/1Password

simplicityguy · March 2017

@rickfillion; ok i found that helper.log and opened in Console and searched for "updateTXTRecordDictionary". There is a line item there for the time when I made my last change to a Secure Note. Does that help:
Mon Mar 20 14:48:30 2017| 653001 [WIFI:(Main Thread):] S updateTXTRecordDictionary | Updating TXT Record to {

?

rickfillion · March 2017

That's good yeah. So the next step to look at this is to take the other iOS device (the one where the change isn't automatically syncing to), unlock it, go into Settings > Vaults > Primary and open up its sync configuration screen which should look something like this:

Then see if it resets Last Sync shortly after the Mac sees the change.

How it should work is:

Device 1 does a change to an item
Next time Device 1 sees that Mac is available to sync (i.e. unlocked), it should push it to Mac
Mac broadcasts the message on the network saying it has new data
Device 2 gets the notification of the change on the network
Device 2 starts a sync against Mac to get the new data down

Rick

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi Rick; thanks for these details. I opened 1PW on Mac, logged in. Ditto on iPhone then iPad.

changed test note on mac, it synced within seconds to both idevices.

changed note on iPhone, Mac synced change within seconds. iPad did not get the change until i manually initiated a sync.

changed note on iPad, mac synced the change within seconds, iPhone did not get it until a manual sync.

so it sounds like what you're calling the Device 2 bullet points above, are not happening here. ack!

Drew_AG · March 2017

Hi @simplicityguy,

Sorry for the delayed response! Thank you for testing that and letting us know what happened. There might be a bug on our end, so our developers are going to be looking into this to see what they can find. For now, if the sync doesn't work automatically as expected, it sounds like you can manually initiate the sync as a workaround. I apologize for the inconvenience! Please let us know if you have more questions about that. :)

simplicityguy · March 2017

Hi Drew_AG; I'll stay subscribed to this thread so will see if any further info comes out. For now I am happy to have the local setup working and be off the cloud.

Drew_AG · March 2017

:) :+1:

Want to sync 1PW locally only, 2 iOS devices to one Mac

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