Renewing passwords cumbersome and user-unfriendly!
I want to add my voice to those who say that renewing / changing passwords in 1P is very cumbersome.
I have wasted an hour this morning trying to change a password, then finding myself unable to log in, consulting this forum and your knowledge base and searching around in my Vault. I think now I understood the logic of your system and was able to rectify the problem. From reading entries in the forum I see that many people, like me, do not realise that IP is saving changes as "Passwords" and not directly in the form related to the website.
If Safari can update my passwords in the background without any hassle (and for free!) why is IP so user-UNfriendly?
No need to answer, this is just feedback.
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Comments
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Greetings @AnCatMara,
If you believe 1Password is saving changed passwords as Password items then I'm not sure if you are understanding the behaviour and intent behind the current workflow.
1Password creates Password items whenever you use the Password Generator from the 1Password mini menu and either use the fill or copy option. This Password item is purely as a safety net should anything go wrong. At the point the Password item is created though you will not have completed any change password action in the page so this is not yet the moment to save/update the actual Login item that represents this site. You may change your mind, the site may have weird password requirements and no doubt a number of other reasons I haven't anticipated. The right time to offer to save/update a Login item is when the change form is submitted which is how 1Password is designed.
1Password's ability to recognise change password forms is not perfect and nor can it ever be due to a bewildering range of designs and no formally agreed and commonly used standards. If 1Password correctly recognises a form for what it is 1Password will ask if you want to save or update. If you do so here in this prompt 1Password is designed to not only save/update the Login item based on your instructions but also to remove a Password item that matches. 1Password only does this at this point once it is assured the safety net is no longer required.
If for any reason 1Password did not recognise the form and didn't ask you still have a safety net of the Password item. Your Login item can be manually updated and the Password item deleted. This is not the desired workflow but I would much rather have a safety net than have none at all and risk being locked out of an account.
A site I know well is Amazon. Here is the sequence from my regular tests there.
- Visit the change password form in Amazon.
- Use the keyboard shortcut ⌥⌘\ to bring up the 1Password mini menu.
- With my Amazon Login item highlighted, use the keyboard shortcut ⇧⌘C to copy the password.
- Paste the current password (which is now in my MacOS clipboard from step 3) into the correct field.
- Use the keyboard shortcut ⌥⌘\ to bring up the 1Password mini menu.
- Navigate to the Password Generator and click the fill button. This fills the remaining two password fields with a newly generated password. 1Password creates a Password item at this point in time. It contains the new password and the URL from the open page to help identify it as being used on the Amazon site.
- I submit the change password form.
- 1Password asks if I would like to update my existing Login item. I tell it to do so.
- 1Password updates the existing Login item with the new password. It then deletes the now redundant matching Password item.
First I would ask if you could replicate this on the Amazon site. Ensuring we both see the same behaviour in a known scenario is useful for any future discussion. Then, if you find a site where basically the steps aren't the same and 1Password is not asking if you want to update or save then we would ask you notify us. It is quite possible we have not been previously informed there is a problem with this particular site or may have never heard of the site at all. These reports do help us and help 1Password as we fix issues relating to the filling and recognition of pages.
The steps outlined are for a Mac (you mentioned Safari) and based on version 6. I don't know what version you might be running so if different it could mean those steps will be sightly or drastically different depending on how old a version we're talking about. 1Password 3 for Mac would be pretty different and I actually have no idea what 1Password 2 for Mac even looks like.
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Thank you very much for your quick and very detailed reply!
I also appreciate that 1P staff recognise the limits and possible failings of the software.
I think I have understood your logic and I'm now going to change some old passwords. If I have problems I will come back.0 -
Hi @AnCatMara,
Anybody telling you their software has no bugs has either written a trivial application or is likely delusional. 1Password isn't just a piece of software in isolation but one that stands on top of an operating system, three different browsers and that's before we even get to all the ways HTML can be used to create a page that 1Password needs to detect. It's a game of cat and mouse but with the help of our users we have improved the extension and the filling/saving code over time. Occasionally we slip and add bugs but I can proudly say that the latest version of 1Password can handle all sorts of pages older versions couldn't.
So please do let us know as you find a page where we don't behave as expected.
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Thank you. All went well.
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Hi @AnCatMara,
This thread will remain open for quite some time before the inactivity rules kick in so if you find a site please do say. Otherwise I hope 1Password serves you well and if you have any questions that you find our support pages don't adequately cover we're here to help :smile:
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Hi!
Sometimes the website address I have in my login is a basic "abcdefg.com" which opens up the home page. I then have to click on a "Log in" button which opens a second page with a log-in box. I then click again on the 1P browser and I am then able to enter the website. To speed up the process, should I copy the address of the log-in page - say, "abcdefg.com/login" and paste that into my 1P login in place of "abcdefg.com"?
Thanks!
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Hi @AnCatMara,
If there isn't a sign-in form on the main "abcdefg.com" page, then there's nothing there for 1Password to fill. If you're opening that Login item from the 1Password app, it will look for the sign-in form on the site that opens. If the sign-in form is on "abcdefg.com/login", then the answer your question is yes - you can edit that Login and put "abcdefg.com/login" in place of "abcdefg.com". When you open that Login item from 1Password, it will go directly to that page and should fill your username/password. Let us know if you run into any problems with that! :)
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Hi @AnCatMara,
There's something just popped into my head and I have no idea if we make it clear at all anywhere or if maybe it's a piece of information in some of our heads that we forgot may be useful to others.
I've used 1Password for quite a while now and so I don't have any accounts that aren't already in 1Password. So everything below is about how I personally approach registering with a new site. Now there are always exceptions and a lot depends on how much information a site will ask for to register. Let's assume a site asks for the typical sorts of information, name, email address, password and maybe a username too. Maybe they even ask for an address.
- I first visit the registration page and fill in the various fields. So far this is what you would do whether you use 1Password or not.
- They ask for a password so you use 1Password's Password Generator. This causes 1Password to create a Password item.
- 1Password will likely ask if you want to save a new Login item when you submit the registration form. I actually say no almost 100% of the time.
- I log out of the site and visit the actual login page. I fill in the username field manually this once and I can use 1Password to fill the password field from the Password item.
- When I log in 1Password should again ask if I want to save a Login item. This time I say yes.
Why do I do this? This way 1Password knows about the login page, the page you're really wanting 1Password to interact with over and over again. If it's a dedicated login page, like the one you talked about, 1Password will automatically store that URL as it's the page you asked it to save. This means open and fill should work.
Is it required to do this? no. You can save new Login items on the registration page but sometimes if a site is weird enough we do need a Login item to be saved on the actual Login form because it's the only real way to know which fields we should interact with. Of course saving a new Login item is quite possible so saving one on the registration form doesn't mean there's no hope.
1Password has a learning curve, there's no point claiming it doesn't because it does. I would say all password managers take getting used to. That isn't to say there may not be things we can do to improve 1Password though, something our developers are constantly trying to do :smile:
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Thanks for that piece of advice from LittleBobby. As I said, I am in the process of tidying up my passwords (I started off with over 200, many of which I have not used for years) not really creating new ones.
One problem I have encountered is that 1P is not recording the new login name if I change it, which I do when it is an email address (I am switching from Yahoo to Outlook). How can I get 1P to record the change?
As regards drew_AG's comment, I am now copying the log-in page address and pasting that into the login item.
Some sites do not direct me to a new page. Instead, when I click on the "log in" button, a small window opens up asking for my details but the address of the page does not change. I react by clicking on the 1P browser and clicking on the appropriate log-in item. Is that the correct procedure?
I would like to draw your attention to a related problem. If I edit a log-in item and type in the address of the site, say "abc.com", save and then click on "fill in and open", Safari fails to open the page. If I click on the address, I see "abc.com/?" Even if I delete the "/?" the page still refuses to open. I then open the website in another Safari page, copy the address, come back to 1P, edit the login item and paste in the new address. When saved the page opens correctly. Is it normal that things should happen like that or is that a bug that needs to be fixed?
There are several questions there which you may want to answer separately.
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Hey @AnCatMara,
I thought I could jump in to help you out here.
One problem I have encountered is that 1P is not recording the new login name if I change it, which I do when it is an email address (I am switching from Yahoo to Outlook). How can I get 1P to record the change?
This is intentional behaviour. 1Password will only automatically prompt you to update your Login item if the password has changed. If you're only changing the username then you won't get a prompt. You can manually get 1Password to update your Login item by:
- Going to the log in web page and entering your new email with your current password.
- Then clicking the 1Password extension button and open the manual "Save New Login" feature. This will open a popup window.
- By default, it will have selected the "Create New" tab but to update your existing Login item, you'll need to click the "Update Existing" tab and then select the Login you'd like to update your username on.
- Then click the "Update Existing" button and your existing Login item should have the new username.
A little bit manual but it'll work - hopefully that workflow will help you.
Some sites do not direct me to a new page. Instead, when I click on the "log in" button, a small window opens up asking for my details but the address of the page does not change. I react by clicking on the 1P browser and clicking on the appropriate log-in item. Is that the correct procedure?
Your approach is correct. These kinds of websites aren't automatically fillable using Go & Fill with 1Password as of today because the log in fields either don't exist or are hidden on the web page until you manually click that "Log in" button. For quite a few websites that have these popups we have found there exists a hidden or alternative web page that you can assign in the the website field of your Login item. If the website you use have this then 1Password should be able to open and log you in using Go & Fill. If you reply with the website(s) you have found this with I can help search for a more suitable log in page for you.
I would like to draw your attention to a related problem. If I edit a log-in item and type in the address of the site, say "abc.com", save and then click on "fill in and open", Safari fails to open the page. If I click on the address, I see "abc.com/?" Even if I delete the "/?" the page still refuses to open. I then open the website in another Safari page, copy the address, come back to 1P, edit the login item and paste in the new address. When saved the page opens correctly. Is it normal that things should happen like that or is that a bug that needs to be fixed?
When you open a website using 1Password, it appends two parameters to the end of the URL. Our Safari extension takes these two parameters and strips them off before Safari uses the remaining URL to open the web page. The trouble is our Safari extension can leave the
/?at the end of the URL which can cause some websites to behave differently (or break) because of that. We have a fix currently in beta testing. If you'd like to test this fix out please install our beta extension. Let us know if that helps with this issue.Let me know if you have any questions about anything I've said or anything else related to 1Password.
Looking forward to hearing back how all that went for you. It looks like username is the Irish for "Sea Cat", did I get that right? :chuffed:
Best regards,
Matthew0 -
Hi!
Thank you for all that information!
I have copied to a note your instructions about changing the user name and will implement them the next time I need to.
As regards the "hidden" web pages, I'll make a list of those that are most important to me and let you have it later on (that may mean a few weeks).
Concerning the /?, it's not an issue for me any longer since I have now finished tidying up my login items. Let's hope the next up-date fixes the problem.
Finally, yes, "an cat mara" translates as "the sea cat", but as perhaps you know, the "sea cat" is not a real animal but a figure of speech (as in "Cad é an cat mara a sheol thusa ann? What misfortune guided you there?") and famously figures as a "persona dramatis" in Myles na gCopaleen's "An Béal Bocht" satiric novel.
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Hey again @AnCatMara,
Thank you for all that information!
You're most welcome. :)
Hopefully the different workflow will make things work better when you need to do this again. Yep, those hidden web pages are a bit of a curse but we'll be happy to help find better pages for you once you have that list.
I don't have a timeline on when the next release will be but historically we've released one every few weeks.
"an cat mara"
That's wonderful to know, as an Irishman myself I always wish I'd learned more Irish growing up. There is still time of course :) Thanks for the reference to the novel! I'll be sure to check that out. :+1:
If you ever need anything else, please don't hesitate to write again. We're always here to help.
Best regards,
Matthew0
