New Document Features
I know that AgileBits loves the new Documents feature of 1Password, so I've given up hope that we'll ever see a return of the Attachments feature. Since we have to live with Documents, is there a way to make it less disruptive to our workflow? For example, when viewing a Software License, is it possible to offer the Quick Look feature for linked Documents from within the Software License item without leaving that item? Currently, when you click on a Document in the Related Items section, you are then moved to the Document item where you can either Quick Look or open it. When finished with the document, however, you are not returned to the Software License item. You have to manually navigate back to the item you were previously viewing.
I understand that you feel Documents is best because the same Document can be linked to more than one item, but it also introduced some inconveniences. It takes more steps to create a Document and then link it to another item, and, as mentioned above, it slows down your workflow when trying to view a Document from within another item if you still need to have the original item open. Attachments did not have these annoyances.
I use 1Password Families at home and encounter this problem regularly. In my company, 1Password Teams is widely used, and the problem is encountered even more frequently. We are under significant pressure from our users to find an alternate product. While there are differing opinions on some of the new features of the accounts-based product versus the stand-alone product, with the exception of Documents, most people like the new features. Those that originally resisted the changes have accepted them after getting used to them for a while. With respect to Documents, however, we have not received even one positive reaction from our users. In fact, most have decided to stick with the stand-alone version so that they can continue to use Attachments.
One manager even asked me why the release notes so frequently reference improvements to the billing features while other complaints (e.g. the now-resolved Sharing fiasco, the many requests for local backups, and the earlier restrictions on Document file sizes) have received so much resistance from AgileBits.
I love 1Password, but I suspect our company is on the verge of banning it for our staff. If I could just offer some hope to management, it would be helpful. Unfortunately, the responses I've read on your forum seem to indicate that AgileBits is not willing to consider that many customers prefer Attachments as an alternative to Documents.
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Comments
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@DaveyDave: First of all, many thanks for taking the time to reach out and offer this feedback. I'd love of you to contact us via email at support@1password.com so we can get more information on your team's workflow and discuss this and other things that would help. :chuffed:
I know that AgileBits loves the new Documents feature of 1Password, so I've given up hope that we'll ever see a return of the Attachments feature. Since we have to live with Documents, is there a way to make it less disruptive to our workflow? For example, when viewing a Software License, is it possible to offer the Quick Look feature for linked Documents from within the Software License item without leaving that item? Currently, when you click on a Document in the Related Items section, you are then moved to the Document item where you can either Quick Look or open it. When finished with the document, however, you are not returned to the Software License item. You have to manually navigate back to the item you were previously viewing.
You make some really good points. There's definitely room for improvement, and these are areas we're interested in ourselves. I think it helps to keep in mind that while "attachments" are definitely different from "documents" under the hood, from a user perspective, this is all UI, so there's a lot more we can do here to streamline things. So while it's safe to say that "attachments" aren't coming to 1Password.com, that sort of doesn't matter because for you this is superficial, and something we can iterate on to make the experience better than what was possible with attachments, given their relative inflexibility. The sort of navigational "bidirectionality" you talked about here could be a really cool quality of life improvement. :)
One manager even asked me why the release notes so frequently reference improvements to the billing features while other complaints (e.g. the now-resolved Sharing fiasco, the many requests for local backups, and the earlier restrictions on Document file sizes) have received so much resistance from AgileBits.
Not sure I get the "sharing fiasco" reference, as 1Password.com has always supported simple, secure sharing. And it sounds like you've noticed that file size restrictions are going away (ironically, these were because of attachments and the challenges of syncing individual vaults all at once, which 1Password was originally built around). So...not a lot of resistance there.
But local backups are definitely a sticky subject for some people. (Un)fortunately these aren't necessary (how you read that will depend on your political stance on this issue) since 1Password.com automatically backs up the data, which of course is stored on the server in the first place; and having (potentially out of date and/or unreliable) local backups that people would try to dump on the server arbitrarily could cause some real problems for the user. And that also throws a monkey wrench into things like item history. Since everything is centrally hosted on the server, having a lone client capable of dictating that the whole database be overwritten with its own data brings with it a lot of complexity we (and users) have been, for the most part, happy to leave behind. Not saying that it may not be possible to do something in the area down the road, but it would need to be carefully considered and implemented. So it's good to discuss the possibilities and challenges.
I love 1Password, but I suspect our company is on the verge of banning it for our staff. If I could just offer some hope to management, it would be helpful. Unfortunately, the responses I've read on your forum seem to indicate that AgileBits is not willing to consider that many customers prefer Attachments as an alternative to Documents.
This really sounds like you could replace "attachments" and "documents" with "folders" and "tags", and we could have a very similar discussion. Rather than focusing on what "documents" versus "attachments", I think it might be more productive to talk about more ways (as above) where the documents workflow could be improved to help not only you and your teammates, but all 1Password users. Definitely get in touch via email so we can continue the conversation with regard to your team's specific needs in more detail. We'd love to help! :)
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Wow! Thanks for the fast, detailed response on a Saturday. (Our team, too, is in the office working on network upgrades while the other staff are off enjoying their weekend.)
I wrote to you because, as a personal 1Password user, I think your product is outstanding, and I wanted my employer to continue using it. I do, however, think the potential UI improvements you mentioned would make it much better. That's the reason I suggested being able to Quick Look a document from within another item without leaving that item. That would be so convenient and solve so many of the complaints sent to our Help Desk. In fact, it would resolve all of the complaints we receive about 1Password.
I shared your response with other IT staff while we were breaking for lunch. Unfortunately, most of them are still "attached" to attachments. The general consensus was that the lack of attachment support is a showstopper for our organization. I guess it's like how the transition from folders to tags was a showstopper for someone else who posted in your forums. In our case, we adjusted to tags quite easily with no pushback from our users. It just shows how everyone's needs (perceived or real) are a little different.
The only two issues our management has had with the new 1Password are related to backups and attachments. They are uncomfortable with the lack of local backups for two reasons:
It could be very problematic if there was ever a problem at AgileBits. Our IT staff trust your security, but our senior management staff are not technical experts, and the regular news reports of hacks worldwide scare people. After all, if election systems managed with the resources of governments are potentially vulnerable, it's easy to understand how the average user might not be convinced about your security (even though security experts would agree that it is extremely secure).
More importantly, our auditors are not convinced that we would meet the requirements of data retention legislation if we don't have backups in our control that can easily be retrieved and read without proprietary software. (Actually, I'm surprised I haven't seen that mentioned in your forums.)
We recognize that all software has limitations and can't do everything that everyone wants or needs. Therefore, in such situations, we implement in-house workarounds where possible. In the case of the limitations with 1Password local backups, we have two acceptable solutions that satisfy both our management and our auditors:
We created an encrypted database that stores the contents of the username, password, URL and notes fields of our shared vault. It also includes our linked documents, but we store them as attachments. We manually update this database every time login credentials are created or changed. This database maintains a history of previously used passwords. The only thing it doesn't do is automatically fill fields in a browser.
As a secondary backup, we export our 1Password shared vault data to an encrypted disk image on a FileVault 2 secured volume, and then use MrC's excellent 1Password conversion utility to convert the exported data to a nicely formatted html document that is easy to read in an emergency. This html file is saved directly to the encrypted disk image. We also store copies of our attachments there as well.
Turning back to attachments, I was unable to persuade the others that we should wait for potential UI changes that might make documents easier to use. They do understand the benefits of the new documents feature; they just don't feel the attachments feature should have been removed. They are of the opinion (and I can't say I disagree) that both should co-exist together (even if there needs to be a file size limit). Attachments are a feature that they've used for a long time, and it's removal feels like a downgrade despite all of the other upgraded benefits. Also, most of our applications are developed by our own internal programmers, so our users have the luxury of having their apps designed for their specific preferences. If the apps don't meet their requirements, we fix them to their liking, if it's technically possible, even when we think we have a better solution. We do our best to provide them with both functionality and convenience at the same time. Now that we know attachments won't be coming back, the general feeling is that it's best to move on and find a solution that will make the users happy.
I love 1Password. It feels like my life is stored in it, and I would be lost without it. I and my family will continue to use 1Password, and I will continue to recommend it to others. At the end of our discussion today, however, my IT Director instructed our Applications Manager to either develop a browser extension that works with our internal password database or find an new third party product by the end of the year. She very much appreciates the information you provided, but she just wants the user complaints to stop.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
(Please still consider UI improvements that will make documents more convenient. I'm sure that would help a lot of people.)
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Wow! Thanks for the fast, detailed response on a Saturday. (Our team, too, is in the office working on network upgrades while the other staff are off enjoying their weekend.)
I wrote to you because, as a personal 1Password user, I think your product is outstanding, and I wanted my employer to continue using it. I do, however, think the potential UI improvements you mentioned would make it much better. That's the reason I suggested being able to Quick Look a document from within another item without leaving that item. That would be so convenient and solve so many of the complaints sent to our Help Desk. In fact, I think it would resolve all of the complaints we receive about 1Password.
I shared your response with other IT staff while we were breaking for lunch. Unfortunately, most of them are still "attached" to attachments. The general consensus was that the lack of attachment support is a showstopper for our organization. I guess it's like how the transition from folders to tags was a showstopper for someone else who posted in your forums. In our case, we adjusted to tags quite easily with no pushback from our users. It just shows how everyone's needs (perceived or real) are a little different.
The only two issues our management has had with the new 1Password are related to backups and attachments. They are uncomfortable with the lack of local backups for two reasons:
It could be very problematic if there was ever a problem at AgileBits. Our IT staff trust your security, but our senior management staff are not technical experts, and the regular news reports of hacks worldwide scare people. After all, if election systems managed with the resources of governments are potentially vulnerable, it's easy to understand how the average user might not be convinced about your security (even though security experts would agree that it is extremely secure).
More importantly, our auditors are not convinced that we would meet the requirements of data retention legislation if we don't have backups in our control that can easily be retrieved and read without proprietary software.
We recognize that all software has limitations and can't do everything that everyone wants or needs. Therefore, in such situations, we implement in-house workarounds where possible. In the case of the limitations with 1Password local backups, we have two acceptable solutions that satisfy both our management and our auditors:
We created an encrypted database that stores the contents of the username, password, URL and notes fields from our shared vaults. It also includes our linked documents, but we store them as attachments. We manually update this database every time login credentials are created or changed. This database maintains a history of previously used passwords. The only thing it doesn't do is automatically fill fields in a browser.
As a secondary backup, we export our 1Password shared vault data to an encrypted disk image on a FileVault 2 secured volume, and then use MrC's excellent 1Password conversion utility to convert the exported data to a nicely formatted html document that is easy to read in an emergency. This html file is saved directly to the encrypted disk image. We also store copies of our attachments there as well.
Turning back to attachments, I was unable to persuade the others that we should wait for potential UI changes that might make documents easier to use. They do understand the benefits of the new documents feature; they just don't feel the attachments feature should have been removed. They are of the opinion (and I can't say I disagree) that both should co-exist together (even if there needs to be a file size limit). Attachments are a feature that they've used for a long time, and it's removal feels like a downgrade despite all of the other upgraded benefits. Also, most of our applications are developed by our own internal programmers, so our users have the luxury of having their apps designed for their specific preferences. If the apps don't meet their requirements, we fix them to their liking, if it's technically possible, even when we think we have a better solution. We do our best to provide them with both functionality and convenience at the same time. Now that we know attachments won't be coming back, the general feeling is that it's best to move on and find a solution that will make the users happy.
I love 1Password. It feels like my life is stored in it, and I would be lost without it. I and my family will continue to use 1Password, and I will continue to recommend it to others. At the end of our discussion today, however, my IT Director instructed our Applications Manager to either develop a browser extension that works with our internal password database or find an new third party product by the end of the year. She very much appreciates the information you provided, but she just wants the user complaints to stop.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
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Wow! Thanks for the fast, detailed response on a Saturday. (Our team, too, is in the office working on network upgrades while the other staff are off enjoying their weekend.)
@DaveyDave: Haha, I hear ya! You're totally welcome. Always glad for the opportunity to discuss stuff like this with another passionate 1Password user — which I myself am first and foremost, and will always be at heart. :chuffed:
I wrote to you because, as a personal 1Password user, I think your product is outstanding, and I wanted my employer to continue using it. I do, however, think the potential UI improvements you mentioned would make it much better. That's the reason I suggested being able to Quick Look a document from within another item without leaving that item. That would be so convenient and solve so many of the complaints sent to our Help Desk. In fact, I think it would resolve all of the complaints we receive about 1Password.
It sounds like making item references/links bidirectional instead of one-way would be a huge win for your team, and I know we've had similar requests from others as well. It's something we're exploring. We have an issue filed for this feature request:
ref: OPM-4303
And, if possible, Quick Look for linked items would be icing on the cake. But let's pretend it's the future and we've already done that. What would be your next request for Documents? :)
I shared your response with other IT staff while we were breaking for lunch. Unfortunately, most of them are still "attached" to attachments. The general consensus was that the lack of attachment support is a showstopper for our organization. I guess it's like how the transition from folders to tags was a showstopper for someone else who posted in your forums. In our case, we adjusted to tags quite easily with no pushback from our users. It just shows how everyone's needs (perceived or real) are a little different.
I'd love to hear more specifics about what your team likes about attachments. I'm sure there are things we can incorporate into Documents in the apps in the future that will help.
Just to make sure we're on the same page, are bidirectional linking and Quick Look enough to satisfy everyone on your team, or are there other popular requests that will help people's workflows? I can't promise anything at this stage, but knowing what people want most makes a huge difference and has an impact on what we prioritize.
The only two issues our management has had with the new 1Password are related to backups and attachments. They are uncomfortable with the lack of local backups for two reasons:
It could be very problematic if there was ever a problem at AgileBits. Our IT staff trust your security, but our senior management staff are not technical experts, and the regular news reports of hacks worldwide scare people. After all, if election systems managed with the resources of governments are potentially vulnerable, it's easy to understand how the average user might not be convinced about your security (even though security experts would agree that it is extremely secure).With regard to security, you're right, not everyone will do their due diligence on that. But if it helps, we do work with external auditors and independent security researchers to ensure that any weaknesses are found and addressed....
But while there's a lot more detail in our security white paper, can offer a few points that summarize how 1Password secures our data, which require a lot less research:
- 1Password data is encrypted locally on your device before it is transmitted.
- The server receives only an encrypted blob.
- The Master Password is never transmitted.
Suffice to say, if someone gains access to our servers and dumps the full database (we've designed 1Password.com with this in mind), they simply don't have what they need to decrypt it, as each individual user alone has the keys to their data. So an attacker won't have that and can't get it from AgileBits, even if they get everything else. So while there's a lot more that goes into making all of this work smoothly, this is something that I think all of us can appreciate without having to read the white paper start to finish. :)
More importantly, our auditors are not convinced that we would meet the requirements of data retention legislation if we don't have backups in our control that can easily be retrieved and read without proprietary software.
When you add "without proprietary software" at the end there, it sounds like backups wouldn't fit the bill at all: you'd need a plaintext export of all of the data. Or am I misunderstanding? That's totally possible even now, but it would mean that the data is not encrypted. But anything you encrypt it with will necessarily make the data less portable. It's a bit of a pickle.
But getting back to regulatory issues, we'd be happy to work with you on this. It may not all apply directly to your situation, but 1Password.com is HIPAA compliant, which is a high bar with regard to data availability (which, in turn, is crucial when it comes to our most important data). If you have specific requirements, please get in touch via email so we can learn more about how we can help.
We recognize that all software has limitations and can't do everything that everyone wants or needs. Therefore, in such situations, we implement in-house workarounds where possible. In the case of the limitations with 1Password local backups, we have two acceptable solutions that satisfy both our management and our auditors:
We created an encrypted database that stores the contents of the username, password, URL and notes fields from our shared vaults. It also includes our linked documents, but we store them as attachments. We manually update this database every time login credentials are created or changed. This database maintains a history of previously used passwords. The only thing it doesn't do is automatically fill fields in a browser.
As a secondary backup, we export our 1Password shared vault data to an encrypted disk image on a FileVault 2 secured volume, and then use MrC's excellent 1Password conversion utility to convert the exported data to a nicely formatted html document that is easy to read in an emergency. This html file is saved directly to the encrypted disk image. We also store copies of our attachments there as well.
Ahh, @MrC is amazing. And that's a really cool use of the converter! You had me at "encrypted disk". ;)
Turning back to attachments, I was unable to persuade the others that we should wait for potential UI changes that might make documents easier to use. [...] Now that we know attachments won't be coming back, the general feeling is that it's best to move on and find a solution that will make the users happy.
Attachments won't be coming to 1Password.com accounts in the same form that you're used to them from local vaults, but again, that's a technical implementation issue. It doesn't have to be a usability issue if we get a sense for the sorts of things you need to do with Documents that you can't today. Any details you can share would be greatly appreciated!
Nevertheless, I obviously can't offer you any improvements in this area now, so it does make sense for your team to make a decision based on what 1Password has to offer today. But we'd like to get a better idea of what exactly you want so that 1Password might be a better fit for you and your team in the future.
I love 1Password. It feels like my life is stored in it, and I would be lost without it. I and my family will continue to use 1Password, and I will continue to recommend it to others. At the end of our discussion today, however, my IT Director instructed our Applications Manager to either develop a browser extension that works with our internal password database or find an new third party product by the end of the year. She very much appreciates the information you provided, but she just wants the user complaints to stop. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I know exactly how that feels, both with regard to the importance of 1Password in my own life, and also having to put the immediate needs of many first. We'll continue to make 1Password better so that hopefully someday it's something your whole team can get behind. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts and wishes for 1Password. We'll continue to strive to make those kinds of dreams a reality. :)
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It sounds like making item references/links bidirectional instead of one-way would be a huge win for your team, and I know we've had similar requests from others as well. It's something we're exploring. We have an issue filed for this feature request:
ref: OPM-4303
And, if possible, Quick Look for linked items would be icing on the cake. But let's pretend it's the future and we've already done that. What would be your next request for Documents?
As you mentioned earlier, whether it's documents or attachments, it all happens "under the hood" making it ultimately irrelevant to the end user. Therefore, the ideal situation would be to use documents while "simulating" attachments. Bidirectional references/links would be an awesome first step.
The one other thing to make it perfect would be to be able to delete a file from a document item and replace it with a modified file while in edit mode. Currently, when a file in a document item needs to be changed, you have to delete that document item, then create a new document item with the modified file, and then link the new document item to the appropriate other items. Users just want to quickly replace the file in the document item that is already linked to other items so the references remain.
Simply put:
bidirectional references/links + editable file field in document items = simulated attachments
It's all about saving time (e.g. too many navigation steps) and reducing confusion (e.g. which document items need to be linked where?).
With regard to security, you're right, not everyone will do their due diligence on that. But if it helps, we do work with external auditors and independent security researchers to ensure that any weaknesses are found and addressed....
But while there's a lot more detail in our security white paper, can offer a few points that summarize how 1Password secures our data, which require a lot less research:
1Password data is encrypted locally on your device before it is transmitted.
The server receives only an encrypted blob.
The Master Password is never transmitted.Security is only an issue because it is misunderstood. The main concern related to local backups is data retention. We operate in many countries and are required to have our data available on short notice. We send teams to assist in disaster areas, so major infrastructure issues can occur. That is no longer a problem, however, because the combination of 1Password exports, MrC's conversion utility and encrypted disk images solve that problem. That's all handled by our IT Department so the end users don't have to worry about it.
Nevertheless, I obviously can't offer you any improvements in this area now, so it does make sense for your team to make a decision based on what 1Password has to offer today. But we'd like to get a better idea of what exactly you want so that 1Password might be a better fit for you and your team in the future.
I quickly reviewed our client support database, and other than the loss of the attachments feature, the only commonly expressed concerns expressed are cosmetic in nature:
The categories in the sidebar and the new item menu are not listed in alphabetical order which briefly slows down navigation. (And, as I mentioned, navigation is important to our users.)
Items listed in the various views and the 1Password mini menu show both the title and username associated with the item. They are sorted in alphabetical order by title, but there is no secondary sort by username. If you have a lot of accounts with the same title, this, too, slows down navigation.
I realize that these two items are not new - they existed before Teams. I just mention them to highlight that our users are generally very happy with 1Password. There most serious concern is that managing document items takes more time than managing attachments did. If there are UI improvements in the future, they may very well solve that problem.
1Password will continue to be a major part of my personal workflow everyday, so I'll be aware of any improvements that are released. I'll certainly bring them to the attention of others. If any become available before we select an alternative, I'm sure our decision makers will be agreeable to considering using 1Password again.
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Hi @DaveyDave,
I think you're spot on with your ideas about Documents vs Attachments. We have a plan for how to make them much more Attachment-like, but we haven't been able to find the time to start implementing it across all of our clients. We miss the ease of use of Attachments as well.
Rick
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