Are local vaults going to exist for the foreseeable future?
There's a Twitter thread with some serious security geeks that may be spreading misinformation, so I wanted to confirm: As I understand it, the standalone licensing model is going away and you are transitioning to a subscription model, but you are not going to be removing the ability to have local vaults (i.e., vaults that are not synced to the 1Password servers). Is that correct? Or is there a plan afoot to eventually get rid of local vaults? The licensing model is one thing (which I can live with), but the functionality of the product is something different. Please clarify.
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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@resnick: Man... Twitter doesn't make it easy to have much of a conversation. :lol:
To be perfectly clear, you can continue to use the version(s) you purchased indefinitely without having to pay for anything else, and we have no plans to remove anything from these apps.
We've done this I think exactly twice due to security concerns, and in one case we brought it back after making some changes. As I'm sure you can imagine, it would be a ton of work for us to try to take support for local vaults out of an app that's depended on them for years, before 1Password.com even existed. We're just not keen on trying to do that, as we prefer to look forward rather than backward — and have plenty on our plates already. ;)
And if it helps, a 1Password.com membership doesn't mean you don't have access to your data offline; it's still cached locally on your device so you can do so, everything is encrypted locally before it's sent to the server, and the keys to your data are never transmitted to us — so only you ever have the ability to decrypt it.
I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)
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@brenty: Thanks for the reply, but by making your answer a bit longer than it had to be, you did leave a bit of equivocation in there that I think isn't helping the confusion. Let me try again to make it crystal clear.
Let's not talk about versions of 1Password I have (or anyone else has) already purchased. I will presume that you won't (and can't) make them stop working. Let's only talk about future versions. And let's not talk about access to data on 1Password.com or "locally cached" data. That's only confusing matters. Let's only talk about local vaults, vaults that are never transmitted to the server.
So here is the question: Do you folks have plans, for future versions, to remove the ability to have local vaults? Simple "yes"/"no" answers are ideal, but even, "We've been considering it" or "We have no such plans" are reasonable answers too.
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We don't typically discuss roadmaps. There's a reason for this... it changes frequently. I could give you the current roadmap, but in a month that roadmap may change significantly. We're constantly adjusting plans. I get it... what you're looking for is a concrete answer. I'm sorry that we can't give you that.
Rick
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@rickfillion: I think I'd settle for a "reverse" concrete answer: "We haven't publicly announced any intention to remove local vaults from future versions of the product, so that Twitter thread mentioned above is full of hot air. We of course can't give you a concrete answer that they'll never go away because we don't discuss roadmaps, so in theory they could, but that is not our publicly stated intention." Can you at least say that?
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A small followup: As a Mac user, I hadn't realized the kerfuffle on the Windows side: Is it the case that 1Password 6 for Windows does not have local vaults and does not have anyway to sync between multiple devices other than through 1Password.com? That would (unfortunately) lend support to the Twitter thread. :(
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@resnick : I think what you said there is accurate.
Rick
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The miss information highway...
being in technology field for over 20 years, you can't plan the future and have it set in stone. What we though would work 2 years ago doesn't work today. Technology changes that fast.0 -
Exactly right, @prime.
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@rickfillion when you wrote "@resnick : I think what you said there is accurate." did you mean @resnick's first post ("We haven't publicly announced any intention to remove local vaults from future versions of the product, so that Twitter thread mentioned above is full of hot air. We of course can't give you a concrete answer that they'll never go away because we don't discuss roadmaps, so in theory they could, but that is not our publicly stated intention.") or second ("1Password 6 for Windows does not have local vaults and does not have anyway to sync between multiple devices other than through 1Password.com")? Or both?
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@jetboy: I can't speak for @rickfillion, but let me try and clarify:
We haven't publicly announced any intention to remove local vaults from future versions of the product
This is accurate.
so that Twitter thread mentioned above is full of hot air.
I firmly believe in free speech and in the past taken multiple oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, so I can't personally agree that people voicing their option is "hot air".
We of course can't give you a concrete answer that they'll never go away because we don't discuss roadmaps, so in theory they could, but that is not our publicly stated intention.
Also accurate.
1Password 6 for Windows does not have local vaults and does not have anyway to sync between multiple devices other than through 1Password.com
Mostly accurate, however, 1Password 6 for Windows can migrate local vaults to a 1Password.com account. I'd also like to add that 1Password 4 for Windows does support local vaults and you'll notice we released an update for it a few days ago. I'm fairly confident we have quite a few people still happily using 1Password 4.
I hope this helps.
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Andrew Beyer (Ann Arbor, MI)
Lifeline @ AgileBits0 -
If they are not going to continue selling the standalone version what are the plans to update and maintain that version over the next few years? What it sounds like to me is what we have will continue to work for a while. One day something will stop working and at that future time we'll have to get a cloud account or switch products.
I see they are copy and pasted responses like "we believe this is a better experience". I think that is disingenuous. Many in the security community don't want their data in the cloud (encrypted or not). I think its much more likely the company is more interested in subscription revenue.
In hindsight this shouldn't be a surprise. I've noticed how their website makes the standalone version hard to find. Also most features over the last year are all tied to the cloud accounts.
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I think the twitter conversions are people trying to read between the lines because Agilebits is isn't directly addressing concerns. I understand your not wanting to make roadmap commitments but that is part of why this mess has happened. For many the local vaults are a core feature. If you can't say they are staying long term in all future versions/platforms then something many of us see as a core feature we now know the company does not see the same way.
What is clearly being said.
We are not taking them away.What is not being said.
We will continue to develop and support existing vault options for new iOS, Mac, Windows, Android etc... versions.If you can't say that then I think we have our answer about the direction Agilebits is taking. Based on what has been said a not said it sounds like a deprecated feature we should expect to stop being supported sometime in the future.
Kudos for being responsive to customers via twitter/forums. I do wish you had a more direct answer to concerns but hopefully hat will come soon.
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@DaGreek211: This
What is not being said.
We will continue to develop and support existing vault options for new iOS, Mac, Windows, Android etc... versions.is implicit in this
What is clearly being said.
We are not taking them away.You already have local vaults, and we're not taking them away. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel here. They already exist and many people use them daily.
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I was agreeing that you guys are saying you are not taking them away. What your not doing is making people feel like the way they use 1password today (Local Vaults, iCloud, Dropbox) will be core features in future versions.
So I get it, I can use local vaults forever, at least as long as I don't update my OS, Browsers, Phone OS. If I want to continue to update those things local vaults may or may not work in the future. If I don't update anything they should work indefinitely.
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I think that we've been up front about the fact, at least when asked; our focus is on 1Password memberships and it would be unlikely that improvements to standalone exclusive features or local vaults would be forthcoming in the near/forseeable future. We are no longer marketing that as a solution.
We really don't like to speculate -- and so we won't. As has been said a number of times in a number of ways in this thread: we have no plans to intentionally cripple local vaults or the ability to use the apps standalone for those who have purchased that option. That said, it is possible that in the future an update from a 3rd party will make it more difficult or impossible to do so, and I can't make any promises about what our response would be to that. Certainly we have all but stopped development of 1Password 4 for Windows, which was the last Windows product to fully support local vaults, and so it is unlikely in that scenario that continued use of local vaults on Windows would be feasible.
Licenses never expire, and we're not taking anything away from anyone. Everyone is welcome to continue to use what they purchased for as long as it works for them, and at this point there is no reason I see to suspect that setup would stop working. The only exception to that I can think of would be 1Password 3 for iOS, which is a 32 bit app. With iOS 11 only 64 bit apps will run, so with v3 having been retired in 2012 it is definitely time to upgrade if you're still using that.
While subscription revenue is certainly beneficial for us it absolutely is not the primary driving force behind memberships. While there are a lot of technical people out there who were happy to manage a la carte licensing, manually set up syncing, and have sharing available only via a 3rd party, that isn't a real solution for the majority of people. Most folks want a solution that "just works," and we're getting much closer to that than we've ever been because of memberships.
And certainly having subscription revenue does have its advantages. We want AgileBits to continue to be a profitible and viable company for many decades to come so that we can continue to deliver the level of quality in software and service that folks have come to expect from us. One way to do that is with a more consistent revenue stream. As much as we felt great being generous with upgrades (e.x. 1Password 4 -> 5 -> 6 for Mac were all released as free upgrades despite our usual upgrade policy), and at the time felt for a number of reasons that was the correct thing to do, developers don't work for free. All of us here at AgileBits need to put food on the table as well. And we don't want to "just" survive. As we continue to grow we want to be able to attract the kind of talent that built the incredible apps and service that we have today. That means being competative in the job market as well. :)
I think that is disingenuous.
You are of course welcome to your opinions, but I'd ask that you at least give the service a fair try before forming them. Most customers who have tried it haven't gone back to local vaults.
As much as we'd love to be, we realize 1Password cannot be everything to everyone. We strongly believe we've built the best offering in the space, but not everyone is going to agree. If you come to the latter conclusion and feel there is a better fit for you out there then I wish you all the best and hope you've found a password manager you can feel comfortable with and confident in.
Thanks for sharing your feedback. :)
Ben
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Thank you for your response and addressing many points in one place. I want Agilebits to succeed and be profitable. Personally I can live with paying a subscription to use the service (It's worth it to me). I also agree that 99.9% of people want something that just works.
As an example my wife who is very non-technical uses 1password on her iPhone. Using the iCloud sync option it "just works". I would even say the iCloud option is likely less friction on iOS then the 1password account would be. If your on iOS then 99% chance your already signed into iCloud. Creating an 1password cloud account is more work in that specific example.
I know we're in the minority here but I would like the option to pay the subscription to support Agilebits but still have the option for local vaults.
In my case I work as a Developer for a Security company. I have a work vault that only exist on my work computer. I have a personal vault I do allow sync on. As part of my companies policies we don't put anything in the cloud ever!
I 100% understand that pre upload encryption of the vault should be safe. Still its even safer to not allow any type of access.
Your example of 1password 3 for iOS not working in the next OS update I think is perfectly reasonable and expected. I'm just hoping for a way I can maintain my existing vault usage/workflow. I'm happy to pay to keep my current workflow.
Thank you for the detailed response to this issue.
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@Ben Thanks for the reply; I appreciate your concerns both for a consistent revenue stream for AgileBits and for ease of use for the majority of customers. What I think many of us more technical customers are saying is that we also appreciate and rely on local vaults and local synching, and we hope that isn't devalued in the interests of greater usability by those less techy. 1Password may not be able to be all things to all people, but it seems a shame to take a product that is well regarded within and frequently recommended by those in the security community, and deprecate the very features that make it so. What I think would go a long way towards solving the confusion and uncertainty would be to say that you intend to support local vaults in new/updated versions as long as it's reasonable. If a change in a future version of an executable environment makes it too difficult to support, issue a statement at that time saying that future versions on platform X won't support local vaults.
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Thank you for your response and addressing many points in one place. I want Agilebits to succeed and be profitable. Personally I can live with paying a subscription to use the service (It's worth it to me). I also agree that 99.9% of people want something that just works.
You're very welcome. I'm happy to try and help, as I know there is a lot of confusion and frustration around this topic out there (including what may be some misinformation being spread by 3rd parties).
know we're in the minority here but I would like the option to pay the subscription to support Agilebits but still have the option for local vaults.
That is actually already possible. It isn't necessarily the recommended setup, and I certainly would not recommend it to a new customer, but if you've already got local vaults set up and don't mind losing out on the benefits that the 1Password.com service offers, you can certainly subscribe for the app updates and continue to use local vaults.
I can't promise that this will continue to be the case indefinitely, but it is certainly possible now.
What I think would go a long way towards solving the confusion and uncertainty would be to say that you intend to support local vaults in new/updated versions as long as it's reasonable.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not in a position to make that statement, but I'll certainly pass the feedback along. Unfortunately I feel that making such a statement may only cause more confusion and frustration as then the question will be "what is reasonable?" and such.
Ben
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So it seems the logic of this business practice change does lie at least in some ways to regret for not charging for those past upgrades. Totally reasonable for a business to want to make money. What you are hearing from some of us is a cry out that this change would eventually cause us to go elsewhere. Agilebits I am sure has done some kind of research estimating that those of us that regrettably go elsewhere is inconsequential to the revenue potential of the new direction. What I don't understand is why not just continue both directions and charge for upgrades on the stand alone software. Most would be happy to pay this way. The issue with subscription pricing for me is I pay if you innovate or not. With pay per upgrade, you innovate or don't get paid. The latter seems more customer aligned. Just my 2 cents
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I hear what you're saying, but you also have the option to stop paying us at any time with a subscription, especially if you opt to pay monthly (though that option is a little more expensive). You could essentially do the same thing as you'd do with paid upgrades. Let's say that on average you expect a paid upgrade every 2 years. Take a look at what has happened over the last 2 years, and see if you feel continuing is warranted. Of course I suppose it is also worth considering what value the service brings, regardless of forward motion or not. I'm happy to keep paying my auto loan though my vehicle doesn't get any better each year. ;) (not a great analogy, I know, but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make)
As for why to not continue both directions: it causes a fracture. A divide. More choice for the end user, yes, of course, but for many more choice means more confusion. Which to pick? We already have three different options available. Marketing the standalone products as well would add a large number of other possibilities. It just doesn't make sense. We feel 1Password membership is the best way to use 1Password, and so that is how we're rolling forward.
I don't think regret is the right word. I'm not even sure I'd say that if we were to do it all again we'd change anything. Things have just evolved over the years and that evolution has brought us here, which is a great spot to be. 1Password is the best it has ever been, and it is only getting better.
And we don't just want to make money. We need to make money. If we don't make money people don't get paid and people don't work for free. You can forget innovation if people aren't getting paid. :) We feel we've built the best password manager available and we want to maintain that high standard.
Ben
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I have some trepidation here. My hope is that two or three years from now, when I buy a new Mac, there will be a version of 1Password that I can install that will open my existing vaults and continue right along using that data without any need to subscribe to to a monthly fee. That the same can be said for my iOS devices, too. I know the future is hard to predict, and working in tech myself, I see whole projects get deprecated before they even launch. I just want my 1Password vault to be there as part of my estate, so I can pass on my piece of the digital world, securely.
I appreciate the need to make money, and I want AgileBits to continue to offer great software. But I hate the subscription model (where as investors and stock holders love it). Its nice to have recurring income, and predictable numbers on Jan 1 of the fiscal year. I feel like I'm getting $1.99'd and $9.99'd to death on a monthly basis. Can I just give you $20 for another awesome piece of SW that fits the need? I've already gotten three family members to buy 1Password, and I promise they'll buy that app, too!
Good lucks folks, and keep Agile Bits healthy!
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"but you also have the option to stop paying us at any time with a subscription"
Wow. Come on guys. Seriously. For those of us who bought a license, the product received upgrades. If they were paid upgrades, and we skipped it, or deferred to a later time, the app would keep working, assuming future OS releases didn't break something.
What happens if we stop subscribing? No more sync minimally and I assume at some point the app and it's local cache would stop too.
Your latest Windows version already doesn't support what sync used to be, and it's clear you've moved on to a subscription model, and my confidence in the legacy product is minimal.
But you don't just come out and say it. You dance. That's a shame. Just be up front.
Hey guys, were a subscription company now. The Windows version will never get parity with the non subscription Mac app. And furthermore, no new features are coming for Mac users not using subscription. And chances are, down the line, it could just stop working if an OS update hoses it. And we don't care.
But instead, dancing. Just dancing. I stopped using my paid edition awhile back, because LastPass for me had better Windows and Android support, similar Mac support, and similar iOS support. And it became clear things like accessibility based fill for Android wasn't coming anytime soon. An Edge plugin wasn't coming anytime soon. And now that you've gone subscription, I know it will never happen, unless I choose to start doing it subscription style. Which I don't want to.
So it's no longer the product for me. Why can't you be more upfront and just say, yeah, Scott, you're pretty much dead on. Your Windows 4.x version is legacy, there's no Edge coming, new features ain't coming unless you back off and pay the subscription. And thanks for being a Mac user, but our focus isn't there either.
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I get that they need recurring revenue. Most software companies can't survive selling licenses one time every few years. There's customer churn when you force a paid upgrade. Revenue is lumpy. It sucks. We want Agilebits to be successful.
I also get that you want my 60 year old mom to be able to use your solution and she needs the easy button because she thinks her iPad is a full computer. This is your new target customer. Maybe this was your intention all along but you needed the "cloud" service to execute on this vision. I thought that** I **was your target demographic.
The big problem for the people who are smart enough to really care about security: we are on a dying platform. It is a matter of time.
It will go a little something like this:
1Password 7 for Mac will be released one day to support some yet-to-be-determined major version MacOS release that makes the current 1Password 6 incompatible or run like crap. It won't be the fault of Agilebits. Apple will change their OS dramatically like they have over the years and old software won't work anymore. Software vendors will need to update their stuff - like normal. I think I've been through this at least twice with OS X. PowerPC to Intel. 32-bit to 64-bit. The difference is that Agilebits is not committing to supporting local vaults in future versions of their software.
Even if this major MacOS change did not happen, 1Password 7 will be released eventually anyway because they'll want a big new release with big new features. We'll be stuck with the older 1Password 6 without any new innovation, assuming it runs well enough on new versions of MacOS, Firefox, Safari, and Chrome via potentially "older" extensions. [No one said that 1Password 6 will be forwards compatible with all future browser extensions written for 1Password 7].
A lack of innovation for a security product is a death wish. 12-18 months from now, do you want today's hashing algorithm or the new stuff?
Today, Agilebits won't commit to supporting local vaults in 1Password 7. They should even if they have to caveat that we're going to have to pay a subscription. They are pulling the "we don't talk about roadmap" crap that I tell my customers. I know it's nonsense when I say it and it's nonsense here.
All of this means that those of us who don't fall into their new target customer demographic (i.e. my mom who can't work her iPhone) are on a dying platform and it's time to start looking for something else.
It's a real shame because I REALLY like 1Password and have been using it for a very long time. I don't want to leave. But, capitalism should prevail and someone will write something new. I'll have my credit card ready.
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I have some trepidation here. My hope is that two or three years from now, when I buy a new Mac, there will be a version of 1Password that I can install that will open my existing vaults and continue right along using that data without any need to subscribe to to a monthly fee. That the same can be said for my iOS devices, too. I know the future is hard to predict, and working in tech myself, I see whole projects get deprecated before they even launch. I just want my 1Password vault to be there as part of my estate, so I can pass on my piece of the digital world, securely.
@dromard: I hear you. Imagine how we felt just last month before WWDC! :tongue:
But in all seriousness, we have no idea what each new year will bring either. We make plans, but often they have to change. So we don't say much publicly about stuff we haven't released.
But I think there are a couple things you can look at as a guide:
- If you bought 1Password in the last few years, we're still updating the apps you purchased. Not only did you get the version you paid for, you've gotten improvements ever since, and even when we move on to a new version we're always here to help you in any way we can.
- We still have customers using 1Password 3. We put a lot of time and effort into making our products not only secure, but also reliable and built to last. So it's likely that you'll be able to use 1Password for years to come even if you never pay us another cent.
I appreciate the need to make money, and I want AgileBits to continue to offer great software. But I hate the subscription model (where as investors and stock holders love it). Its nice to have recurring income, and predictable numbers on Jan 1 of the fiscal year. I feel like I'm getting $1.99'd and $9.99'd to death on a monthly basis. Can I just give you $20 for another awesome piece of SW that fits the need? I've already gotten three family members to buy 1Password, and I promise they'll buy that app, too!
Well...we don't have investors or stockholders. It's just us, and we intend to keep it that way. And that's why it's so important to us to run a sustainable business. We don't want venture funding, ad money, selling user data (we're users too!), or selling out to a larger company. We love what we do, and we're determined to keep making 1Password better. And given that we've already got apps that have full support for local vaults and licenses, right now we're focused on making 1Password.com the best it can be, as that's where we can do the most good for the greatest number of people today.
Good lucks folks, and keep Agile Bits healthy!
Likewise, thank you for your support, kind words, and the thoughtful feedback! :chuffed:
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What happens if we stop subscribing? No more sync minimally and I assume at some point the app and it's local cache would stop too.
@sglewis: Nope. I just signed into a frozen account today on my iPhone to test something, and it syncs and caches data just fine. The only things I can't do is make changes or use filling since, well...I haven't paid for anything there. All the data is still accessible, so I can view it, export it, or subscribe at any time — though I probably won't in this case since I just use it for testing. ;)
Your latest Windows version already doesn't support what sync used to be, and it's clear you've moved on to a subscription model, and my confidence in the legacy product is minimal.
As they say, "There's an app for that": we already have a Windows app — 1Password 4 — with full support for local vaults, and a lot of other advanced features that people using version 6 would very much like, so we're working on that right now.
You can think whatever else you want, but I don't think either of us are entitled to anything we didn't pay for. If you purchased a license for a particular version of 1Password, you got that product it its entirety and all of the improvements we made to it since then.
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I also get that you want my 60 year old mom to be able to use your solution and she needs the easy button because she thinks her iPad is a full computer. This is your new target customer. Maybe this was your intention all along but you needed the "cloud" service to execute on this vision. I thought that** I **was your target demographic.
@rfc1918: I don't know why demographics enter into it. All people deserve security, not just geeks or folks lucky enough to employ or be related to them. Just because 1Password.com makes security more accessible to many people doesn't take anything away from you. You can still rock your local vaults and fly your geek flag high.
The big problem for the people who are smart enough to really care about security: we are on a dying platform. It is a matter of time.
The real shame is the implication that less technical friends and loved ones are somehow less smart and/or less deserving of security than folks who are comfortable navigating licensing for multiple platforms and configuring sync for individual vaults across multiple devices.
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I'm not afraid of the cloud based model. I think you are going to run into the "I paid for a lifetime license, and eventually that's going to end." For those who might jump ship due to the money they paid for that license, what about a number of months, or a year, free on the cloud based system. It would do away with local vaults for people that don't care about local vaults, and would then encourage people to pay the subscription price when the free period ends, due to it being easier than jumping ship to another service. It might help you retain customers. I've loved your product, and you've been helpful when I had a problem. But I suspect that many people will simply revert to Keychain on the Mac and iOS, or Chrome keeping your passwords stored.
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"Nope. I just signed into a frozen account today on my iPhone to test something, and it syncs and caches data just fine. The only things I can't do is make changes or use filling since, well...I haven't paid for anything there. "
That's kind of the point and kind of why I'm both moving on from the app and this forum. Old model, buy it. Use it. Whether or not your pay to upgrade it works. New model, subscribe, rely on our cloud, no perpetual license option, stop using it, frozen in time can't update passwords or add new sites, but you can always keep paying monthly.
They will find that some people just aren't into a utility model for security. I guess how many will make or break them.
They could just as easily charge me 29.95 or 49.95 for a new version and say we will continue to support storing your files on Dropbox or a local sync option. They're not, and instead of just being very, very frank they're dancing around the fact that nothing changes today, it all still works. That's not the same as you're committed to your paying customers.
Perhaps subscription works well for you. Perhaps not. But either way, I'm saying bye.
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That's kind of the point and kind of why I'm both moving on from the app and this forum. Old model, buy it. Use it. Whether or not your pay to upgrade it works. New model, subscribe, rely on our cloud, no perpetual license option, stop using it, frozen in time can't update passwords or add new sites, but you can always keep paying monthly.
@sglewis100: That's the thing, I didn't pay for it.
They will find that some people just aren't into a utility model for security. I guess how many will make or break them.
I think that's perfectly fair. If people don't value security in general and 1Password in particular, we'll either have to come up with something else or get different jobs. But we're working hard to provide value to 1Password customers every day so that doesn't happen. Many people are happily using local vaults still today, and we've also got happy customers using 1Password.com now as well.
They could just as easily charge me 29.95 or 49.95 for a new version and say we will continue to support storing your files on Dropbox or a local sync option. They're not, and instead of just being very, very frank they're dancing around the fact that nothing changes today, it all still works. That's not the same as you're committed to your paying customers.
Well, we don't have a new version, so I don't think it would be appropriate to sell you a license for it at this point. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. All of our customers get exactly what they pay for: great apps and help around the clock if they need it. But what you're asking for — certainly of the future — while something that I think everyone wants, is not something money can buy.
Perhaps subscription works well for you. Perhaps not. But either way, I'm saying bye.
While I'm sad (and confused, frankly, since you can still use the version of 1Password you paid for) to see you go, I hope you find what you're looking for. We'd rather you use something else than nothing at all. Keep it secret; keep it safe.
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Thanks for the response. I know I said I was bowing out but I wanted to address this one point:
"While I'm sad (and confused, frankly, since you can still use the version of 1Password you paid for)"
I bought into 1Password when I lived Mac only. I now use Mac OS, iOS, Android and Windows 10. Perhaps subscription users have a bright future on some of those platforms, but Windows and Android users have seen lagging support compared to competition going on years now.
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