Move from mSecure to 1Password
Hello,
i wanted to test 1Password as a replacement of my longtime used mSecure 3.6.5 comparing with mSecure 5 and Enpass.
So i took a 30-days trial an tried to import my nearly 350 item, using the Version 1.0.9 of convert_to_1p4 on my iMac with sierra (10.12.5)
The result wasn't satisfying. Only the Web-Logins are ok, Bank-Account and Creditcard were detected, but the fields are mismatched.
After a unsuccessful discussion with the support, i got the hint to ask "MrC".
So i do now.
pearl is not unknown to me, so i tried to understand the converter-script.
at first, i have two questions:
- where it the mapping for the item-typ (col 2 in the csv). i have seen, that you try to localise (i'm german) the field-content an use it for identifying
login => { textname => 'Web Logins', fields => [
is 'textname' the (possible localised) content of col 2?
what are the correct names of the types of 1password?
- where is the mapping of data-col's to 1password-fields?
i think, it's in "fields", but ther are 3 elements in the structur ( shortname, '0' and description )
a) are the field listed in order in the csv-file?
b) what are the correct names of the field of the types?
sorry to ask you, but it was unable to get the information of the item- and field-names from the support. it is a hard way to get familiar with 1Password :-(
I tried to attach a file with the structure of my mSecure-Types, but i don't see it attacged, so i paste it into the text also
Typ;Feld 1;Feld 2;Feld 3;Feld 4;Feld 4;Feld 6;Feld 6;Feld 7;Feld 8;Feld 9;Anzahl;Status
Bankonten;Beschreibung;Kontonummer;PIN;Name;Bankleitzahl;Kartennummer;IBAN;BIC;Hinweis;;6;type ok, fields confused
Hinweis;Beschreibung;Hinweis;;;;;;;;;7;"stored as ""secure note"""
Kombination;Beschreibung;Code;Hinweis;;;;;;;;12;"stored as ""secure note"""
Kreditkarten;Beschreibung;Kartennr.;Ablaufdatum;Name;PIN;Bank;CVV;SecureCode;S-ID-Check-PIN;Hinweis;3;type ok, fields confused
Schlüssel;Beschreibung;Kennung;Passwort;Hinweis;;;;;;;26;"stored as ""secure note"""
Spiele-Lizenzen;Beschreibung;Hersteller;Online-Plattform;Seriennummer #1;Seriennummer #2;Hinweis;;;;;23;"stored as ""secure note"""
Web-Anmeldungen;Beschreibung;URL;Benutzername;Passwort;Hinweis;;;;;;274;ok
best regards
Christian Damsky
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.12.5
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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Hi @demel42 ,
I see your sample export appears to be in German. Unfortunately, as I learned yesterday in another discussion (the most recent ones in the converter suite thread), mSecure 5 does not appear to ship with language localization files, so the converter won't be able to detect your categories.
In that thread, I mentioned several options. The simplest may be just removing version 5.x, and installing an older version such as 3.5.x or 4.x (I have not tested 4.x, but had no reports conversion from it did not work). Version 3.5.x once installed will have the necessary language files from proper conversion. You would first export your data using version 5, and then remove version 5 and install the older version.
See the last 4 or 5 posts in the converter suite thread, to see the other options. Also, use version 1.10 of the converter suite, located in Testing Bits (see the first post).
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@demel42 ,
I've added code to look for localization files in the converter's Languages folder. I'm testing it now, and would like to use your sample data, but the data you copied/pasted above does not appear like it came from a Mac version of mSecure (it is missing the first column, which has traditionally been the Group. I've also not seen semicolon as a separator in the export files). Also, in version 5, from the App Store, I'm unable to get fields with anything other than English. Can you explain, verify?
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@MrC,
i use mSecure 3.5.6, not 5.xLocalisation sems not to be my problem, i.e. Bank-Account is found, but the fields are mismatched.
the csv-data are no samples but the structure of my msecure-database. i have 7 types in use with up to 9 field.if i would know the item- and the field-names of 1Passwort, i could make a assignment. and with a little bit of help, i can patch your import-scripts
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@demel42 ,
Oh, OK, that wasn't clear.
mSecure outputs a set of fixed columns for the first four - they are Group, Type, Description, Notes. After that, the number and meanings of the columns varies per Type. I've only implemented the stock Types, for obvious reasons. The Type name must match exactly for the converter to detect the type, and therefore know the meaning of each of the other fields. The converter uses English as the default language - if your Type name is not in English, or you are not specifying a supported language, it's type will not be detected correctly.
Only the types listed at the top of the converter are known to the converter - renamed, modified, or user-defined types are clearly unknown, so have to be mapped into Notes.
However, the converter can be modified to easily accommodate your custom types. It might take longer to explain than it would for you to provide me with the necessary Types you employ and the meaning of EACH field, and what kind of data is in that field (e.g. password, phone #, date, etc.).
Let me know how you'd like to proceed. We could talk via some chat or voice app if that would help you. There might be a lot of back and forth here until we resolve the issues you have. The converter is much more complicated that simple item/field name mappings. The table of 1Password per-type internal field names, their data type, properties, their sections, etc. are all defined in the file Utils/PIF.pm, but you really don't want to waste time trying to figure this stuff out.
Finally, you wrote: it is a hard way to get familiar with 1Password. Yes, indeed. Importing from other apps that allow users to completely redefine the data, but provide no means to describe that exported data make it impossible to automate conversion. This is an mSecure failing, not a 1Password (or my converter) failing or weakness.
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hi,
thanks for your answer.yes, i know, that you have only implemented the basic types, but the basic types bankacct and creditcard are not imported well. and it's not the custom-fields, that mismatches or missing. i have some extra field to each to both types (IBAN and BIC to bankacct and 2 additional security-codes to credeticard). the fields are meanwhile mandatory for european behavior.
you have the experience, so i will enhance my excel-table with datatypes an meanings. because i don't know the exact names, i can only try to describe, what i should be.
how can i give you the file? i had tried to make a attachment to the post, but all files in the browser are not selectable. i have tried it with my ipad and via RDP ( i'm in holiday ) on my mac.to "hard way":
not at all, i want to rate your import-scripts - i have no knowledage to do that. sorry, if i impressed so.my sight is from a new customer, who is going on, to spend a lot of money - 1Password costs 300€ for a period of 5 years and so from 5-10 times more than the competitors. in am absolut willing, to spend this money for a outstanding product AND problem-solving service.
the response of the service was quick, but gave my only a hint to information of the user-handbook / knowledgebase and at least to the user-forum. thinkg about, what is, if i have all my data inside an have a technical problem, makes not a good feeling to me.
besides: my testphase is running out i a few days and i couldn't test; my question to the support, what's to do, kept unanswered.my expectation was, that conversion-funktions are basicly part of the software - not everyone is new in using password-container and no one could really expect, change the product means to type in all data again. so i expected, that seamless moving the data is the entrypoint for (with the comercials of agilebits) "time to make the switch".
in enpass the import of my old msecure-data exported as csv, was completed in 1 hour including of generating of all custom-field. for each row (or group of rows) of my csv, i could give the destination type and for each col, i could select the destination field or describe the custom field.
its a strategic decision of the software-developer, what's the worth of smooth migration is.
to make a competition between products, i am used do it not only depending of comercial infos but my personal experience. from my point of viwe, a password-container ist a decision - not for life, but for a long time.
sorry for my long text and thank you for your time
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Please send your spreadsheet or other document with the record descriptions to my email address, which is at the top of the convert_to_1p4.pl script. I will be out all day on Sunday, California time, so will reply when I return. No confidential information, please.
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@demel42 and I are working offline to customize an mSecure converter for his needs. I'll reply now to some of the comments above as an end-user and fairly knowledgeable person regarding conversion, and import/export formats.
yes, i know, that you have only implemented the basic types, but the basic types bankacct and creditcard are not imported well. and it's not the custom-fields, that mismatches or missing. i have some extra field to each to both types (IBAN and BIC to bankacct and 2 additional security-codes to credeticard). the fields are meanwhile mandatory for european behavior.
The issue is a simple one, and I've mentioned it above, but is worth reiterating. Since mSecure customers can completely change the fields for a record Type, and their export format does not provide even a simple header, there is absolutely no meaning to any but the first 4 cells of an exported row of data. It is just arbitrary text. You are the only person in the world who can say with certainty what each field means. mSecure has failed you in this, allow you to spend time customizing data, but providing you with NO means to export it with meaning.
Once you changed the meaning of the fields in your mSecure Types, its became impossible for any automated tool to know what to do with those fields.
you have the experience, so i will enhance my excel-table with datatypes an meanings. because i don't know the exact names, i can only try to describe, what i should be.
how can i give you the file? i had tried to make a attachment to the post, but all files in the browser are not selectable. i have tried it with my ipad and via RDP ( i'm in holiday ) on my mac.
The table you sent via email was helpful, and I've started the customization based on it. We'll deal with the ambiguities offline.
my sight is from a new customer, who is going on, to spend a lot of money - 1Password costs 300€ for a period of 5 years and so from 5-10 times more than the competitors. in am absolut willing, to spend this money for a outstanding product AND problem-solving service.
the response of the service was quick, but gave my only a hint to information of the user-handbook / knowledgebase and at least to the user-forum. thinkg about, what is, if i have all my data inside an have a technical problem, makes not a good feeling to me.
besides: my testphase is running out i a few days and i couldn't test; my question to the support, what's to do, kept unanswered.
I can't address the delays with any technical support, since I'm not an Agilebits employee. It may be that your export/import/conversion needs were outside anyone's immediate expertise, and so your request may have been delayed while they tried to figure out how to help. I'm just guessing.
my expectation was, that conversion-funktions are basicly part of the software - not everyone is new in using password-container and no one could really expect, change the product means to type in all data again. so i expected, that seamless moving the data is the entrypoint for (with the comercials of agilebits) "time to make the switch".
Almost every new user who want's to import from another password manager has this expectation, and its partially unrealistic for several reasons, here are just a few:
1) Some password managers do not support exporting data in plain text, or at all!
2) Many password managers do not export data in a way that is meaningful (mSecure is one of those, as is enpass). They make exporting as simplistic as possible for your sake, but leave you to fend for yourself afterwards.
3) There is not a 1-to-1 mapping of categories or fields within categories between password managers.
4) Some password managers make it impossible to distinguish one category (type) from another.
5) Some password managers have very, very bad exports, and detecting the fields is guess-work at best (and this makes automation difficult to impossible).
6) Some password managers only export partial data.
7) Some password managers do not character-encode their data correctly, or consistently, upon export (it is impossible to detect the character set, or characters are ruined).
8) There are HUNDREDS of password managers, and there are 5 major platforms (Windows, OS X, Linux, iOS, Andriod), and there are variations of the implementations on those platforms, and there are often significant variations between versions of a given password manager, and finally there are dozens of languages to be supported This makes for TENS OF THOUSANDS of permutations for which sample data has to be created, code has to be written, in-house conversion and testing has to occur, and bugs have to be resolved on a case-by-case basis.
So, users expectations (who think in terms of only their own singular case as being representative of the entire problem set) often greatly exceed reality or their own willingness to pay for said features, or wait for them to be implemented.
in enpass the import of my old msecure-data exported as csv, was completed in 1 hour including of generating of all custom-field. for each row (or group of rows) of my csv, i could give the destination type and for each col, i could select the destination field or describe the custom field.
Some password managers have done a very good job with their importers - kudos to them. Each company will prioritize what is important to them. However, last time I looked, the Enpass export was problematic. So its great they can import your data nicely. You may be in the same boat as you are now with mSecure if you decide to leave. This is the type of stuff users do not pay attention to!
its a strategic decision of the software-developer, what's the worth of smooth migration is.
Correct. And my comment above applies for when you decide to leave. I consider that just as important, if not, more so. You can export your 1Password data with very high-fidelity and that data has the semantics built-into the export (the data and its descriptions are exported, unlike enpass, or mSecure).
to make a competition between products, i am used do it not only depending of comercial infos but my personal experience. from my point of viwe, a password-container ist a decision - not for life, but for a long time.
sorry for my long text and thank you for your time
Yes of course, you've made very good points, and I hope my replies have been helpful. Let's continue our conversion-centric conversation offline, until we get your data imported the way you want, but feel free to comment on any of these topics as you see fit.
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Hi! I am a brand new subscriber to 1Password for my Mac, iPhone, and iPad. After losing a month of data in the completely hosed mSecure 5 (and basically losing my sanity in the process), I have made the jump to 1Password. I'm writing to seek help on mapping my category types from mSecure to 1Password.
So far, I have used the convert_to_1p4 utility for macOS. After carefully reading and re-reading the README file, I proceeded. To my dismay, I found that about 400 records defaulted to Secure Notes, including renaming the record type names in mSecure 3.5 on my Mac to match the corresponding Categories in 1Password. No luck — my 400+ login records were still converted to secure notes.
Bummer!
I am willing to do the grunt work of manually recreating each of the records that I had tried to export and migrate to 1Password. Doing so will take several weeks and will be a huge pain in the butt-tocks. But is there any way to perform a Category mapping so that when I run the AppleScript, it will recognize and properly match the Category types from mSecure to the proper Category in 1Password? That would be an enormous help to me. I wish there was a utility for this that would ease the migration!
Please note that I was extremely careful to match the spelling of the Categories (aka, Types in mSecure) when I renamed the Types in mSecure so that they would not conflict. Still, the utility did not recognize them.
Separately, I will add suggestions for Category types that I hope AgileBits will consider adding to a future release of 1Password. I have been impressed so far with 1Password; the one enhancement that I hope to see in the future will be the option of either allowing users to add Custom Categories, or to see AgileBits greatly expand the possible Categories available to your customers/subscribers.
Thank you very much in advance for any help you might suggest. If I can successfully automate the migration of my data from mSecure to 1Password, and put the mSecure nightmare behind me, I will be eternally grateful. As it is, I will have to recover the password to my Social Security online account that I lost, thanks to mSecure. But I digress...
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Hi @Tidewind ,
Sorry for your frustrations and time spent laboring to get your data into 1Password from mSecure. It would be nice if mSecure provided a richer data export, but it is what is.
The good news is you probably won't have to manually enter your data into 1Password.
That said, the msecure converter is able to handle any mSecure export, but it has to be told about your category customization (since the export has absolutely no Type or Field semantics beyond the first 4 standard columns of the CSV export). It knows only about the stock Types and Fields.
I've provided customized version of the converter for several users, as explaining the process is as much work as doing the work itself, and unfortunately, for many reasons, it is much more complicated that simply taking a spreadsheet full of Types and Fields and automating the conversion. The converter has to know about each of your Types, Fields, Field definitions, Field data formats, and how to map those fields into one or more target 1Password fields.
What I would require from you is a spreadsheet of your customized Type names, and their list of Fields in order (the label, and the field's meaning if it isn't obvious). A spreadsheet of this is perfect. The order of the fields in each CSV row must match the field order in the export, and the Type (aka Category) name (column 2) must match exactly (case sensitive). It would look like:
If you use a non-English language, this will require more work, as I'll need a Type name/Field name translation table.
Let's work out the details via email. My email is at the top of the conversion script convert_to_1p4.pl, and we can summarize here when we're done.
As far as Agilebits and customized categories, I believe this is happening in the beta version of 1Password for Teams. I don't know if other versions will see this feature, but it is probably the most often-requested feature additions.
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THANK YOU, Mr. C! I'll get right to it. I really appreciate your detailed reply and offer of help! Look for my email this evening. My very best to you!
Sincerely,
Brian Teeter
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Ok, great. To ease the process for you, and to get you going faster, feel free to send me the Type/Field CSV for one or more Types when you're ready, and I'll add the definitions to a custom converter and send you the update. This way, you can hit the top priority items, we can step-wise refine, and address remaining items when its convenient for you.
Please consider how 1Password uses specific categories for specific jobs (e.g. Logins, Credit Cards, Identity, all used for filling web forms). I generally have the converter split a source password manager's single category into two or more 1Password categories when its appropriate to allow 1Password to function best. So if you have a URL, Username, and Password, for example, in some Insurance record, I have the converter split those fields into a separate Login record so Open and Fill will work. If you don't want this, let me know.
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Mr. C,
I'm running into the same issue as above. Any chance we could connect on tweaking converters for my mSecure layout?
Cheers,
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Sure. Send me an email and we can discuss offline.
Download the 1.10 version of the converter suite, in Testing Bits, mentioned in the first post of the converter suite suite thread.
My email is at the top of the convert_to_1p4.pl file.
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I'll join the party as an mSecure5 user who would like to move to 1Password.
I took the approach of creating several mSecure export files, one for each type of data. I hadto tweak most of them because the Type column in the csv file was slightly different than the converter is looking for. Most of the differences are simply that the converter is looking for a Type that is a plural, whereas the csv file has the equivalent singular, but the csv file has "Login" for that type and the converter is looking for "Web Logins".
Anyway, the converter worked fine for all my types except the logins. No matter what I do, I get an error "**** Hit mSecure CSV quoting bug..." on every line of the csv file. The message indicates that it is compensating but the stats at the end of run indicate everything was converted to notes. Reading the code, I see a note that this has something to do with there being more fields than expected in the csv file for the type which is indeed the case but in the other conversions I did, those extra fields were converted to 1Password custom fields.
Any ideas?
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The "plural" types I believe were from mSecure prior to version 5. Version 5 changed the names. Did you use the msecure or the msecure5 converter? The later is in version 1.10 of the converter suite. Testing Bits is mentioned in the first post.
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It was mSecure5. I downloaded the new version of the converter and will try it tomorrow. I got the version I've been using form a link of the 1Password support website.
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Tried the new converter and still have issues. I trashed all my existing 1Password entries and started again by exporting from mSecure5 into separate csv files for each type of entry. Some of the imports worked, others didn't, giving me various long error messages which I can send to you offline if you want them.
In particular, processing of my logins resulted in multiple displays of the "Hit mSecure csv quoting bug" message. The stats at the end indicated that the logins were exported so I imported them into 1Password. They were correctly identified as logins but the username field is set to the mSecure password field and no password field is listed in any of the logins.
I also found that a couple of my mSecure types that are valid subtypes of the 1Password Identities type are not recognized and converted to Secure Notes instead.
Thanks for writing the converter but at this point, I plan to stay with mSecure5. There's too much work involved in converting over to 1Password,
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If you want to continue, let's work offline. Send me an email - it is at the top of the convert_to_1p4.pl file.
Please understand... the mSecure export contains NO context. It does not indicate the meaning of any fields, so if you've customized your Types, which I suspect you have, there is no way for any program to know what those fields and customizations mean.
Given this, I work with users to customize the converter so that it understands your customizations.
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Thanks for the offer. I fully understand the complications of doing the conversions and wasn't criticizing your work, but I've already spent more hours than I planned to on trying to convert from mSecure5. My problems are not limited to conversion, I've also had issues with autofill not working which I've discussed with 1Password support.
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