Update italian language, please

faceface Member

All done, please update
Tia


1Password Version: 7.0.4
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks! We'll take a look! :)

  • DanielPDanielP

    Team Member

    Hi @face! Are you referring specifically to the iOS beta, yes? I have updated and approved some translations recently, what exactly would you like to see updated so I can take another look?

  • faceface Member

    Hi @DanielP yes i'm referring to last beta 7.0.4 for iOS just available (and also for extension for Safari 4.6.12).
    For example in iOS the phrase Recently Used Items is correctly translated in italian but it's shown still in English ...
    And also "The number of recently ... " is still in English (i've translated it one month ago).
    And also: "Your Master Password will be required after ... " is still not shown in Italian ...
    Same for the Safari Extension ...
    Hth

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @face,

    The localizations will sync back up when 1Password 7.1 for iOS ships.

    The Safari extension is not localizable so that's why that's showing up in english.

    Rudy

  • faceface Member

    @rudy
    Thanks for sync back up the lang in 7.1 for iOS.
    For Safari Extension i'm speaking of that part of the App on Mac (please see pic below) that even if it has been translated the language file inside actual version is still obsolete.

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @face,

    The soonest those localizations would appear in 1Password for Mac is 1Password 7. With my current build it shows as "Password generale", which is what I currently see on crowdin under the Italian for "Master Password".

    Rudy

  • faceface Member

    @Rudy,
    no the correct updated translations for that phrase is "Password generale" and not "Password Generale" (with 'g' not 'G').
    Hope to see both on Mac / iPhone the whole updated italian translations ...
    Thanks

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @face: Pardon my ignorance, but why would it not be capitalized, only in Italian? We want it to be clear that this is a specific thing, like Watchtower (non-generic, referring to our website breach database): the Master Password. We capitalize Master Password everywhere as far as I know, and that is very much intentional.

  • faceface Member

    @brenty in italian is really not correct to use capitalization if there isn't a point before. I know that in USA/English you do it, but for the rest of us, italians, is really uncorrect

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Ah, I see. I'll leave it to our own resident Italian to make the final call, but I appreciate the clarification. :)

  • DanielPDanielP

    Team Member
    edited December 2017

    @face

    You are technically (grammatically?) correct when you say that we should capitalize after a period. However, capitalization rules are not that straightforward in Italian either and allow you some leeway in certain cases, and are fully open to interpretation in others.

    Case in point: if you look at the Master Password as an acronym first (MP) rather than as a word, you are allowed to capitalize both words when you expand it ;)

    Capitalization can also be used to emphasize something, which is what we are doing here. In this sentence, I am referring to the Master Password, while in this sentence I am talking about a general master password.

    Ultimately, we would like our experience to be consistent among languages as much as we can. Our other translations also follow this pattern so, while Italian users might not be as used as English-speaking folks to see word capitalization like that, for now we are going to stick with this writing style, at least for the most important technical terms in the 1Password world (Master Password, Secret Key and the like).

    However, in other, longer translations strings (All Vaults come to mind > Tutte le casseforti) I have done things as you say, without capitalizing every word because that would honestly look alien to us. For two-word strings, however, I think we can use some artistic license here and there :)

  • edited December 2017

    I'm not an Italian speaker, but I try to follow discussions about translations on this forum since I'm the proofreader of the Swedish translations and have been for quite some time, and I find the topic interesting. Also I think it's my duty to provide some transparency to my translation process. After all, the strings I translate and approve is sent out to real, paying customers of the software. :)

    My view is clear. Languages are different and one can simply not assume that something that works in English works in another language. And it takes a native speaker to understand these sometimes very subtle differences.

    I understand that you want a consistent experience, but I do not agree this is accomplished by forcing other languages to adopt English-centric use of capitalization. I believe a consistent experience would be to provide strings of text that feel natural, obvious and non-obtrusive regardless of language.

    And let me be perfectly clear: capitalizing Master Password in Swedish would be just as unnatural and obtrusive as capitalizing the months, the days of the week, name of languages and nationalities or Every Word In A Title, which we do not do in Swedish.

    I understand your point in that capitalizing Master Password you make it more clear it something important and clearly defined part of the applications. In English, there is a certain expectation that Important Things Should Be Capitalized Or They Are Not Important. This expectation do not exist in Swedish.

    In the end 1Password is a commercial product and it belongs to AgileBits. But I do hope you can leave these judgements to the native speakers of the languages. I welcome these kind of discussions, though. :)

    (All that said, I DO capitalize terms I choose to leave in English, like Watchtower, Secret Key and 1Password Extension Helper, which is the preferred way to handle English terms in the context of software).

    (Also sorry if it appears like a rant :p)

  • edited December 2017

    *Deleted double post

  • All Vaults is a good example where the first word absolutely needs to be capitalized, even in Swedish. There, a lack of capitalization change the meaning of the string.

    Currently the translation used is the wrong one (alla valv) which has been used for two years! I just recently corrected that mistake on Crowdin. So I hope you soon update the strings used.

  • DanielPDanielP

    Team Member
    edited December 2017

    Hey @Xe997

    Thank you for taking the time to share this! Your post mentioned quite a few interesting points so I hope you don't mind if I break it down into smaller chunks to share some of my thoughts.

    My view is clear. Languages are different and one can simply not assume that something that works in English works in another language. And it takes a native speaker to understand these sometimes very subtle differences.

    But I do hope you can leave these judgements to the native speakers of the languages. I welcome these kind of discussions, though. :)

    And I 101% agree with you here. Maybe it wasn't really clear from my previous message, but I am an Italian native speaker, so I felt I could add something to the discussion :pirate:

    I also completely agree with you with following language-specific rules whenever we can (I myself have not capitalized "Master Password" in several of my Crowdin Italian translations because it is not natural to me to do so). But I feel there needs to be some balance with the company-wide style guide too. As more and more translators join the various translation projects, it will definitely make sense to have language-specific guidelines.

    I understand that you want a consistent experience, but I do not agree this is accomplished by forcing other languages to adopt English-centric use of capitalization.

    I don't think we are trying to do this, and least not explicitly, so my apologies if that looked like the case. If most users and translators in the Crowdin projects prefer a different capitalization style, we are not going to absolutely refuse this style because it doesn't match the English style. But a big chunk of the translations have been done internally so far, so that's the guidelines we decided to choose. We decided to get the translations ready wherever we could first, before going back to cleanup and focus on the style details. I don't think that has necessarily been a bad thing, because at least we have had the opportunity to offer a few folks 1Password in their own language, even though not everything is perfect yet.

    Ultimately, it's always easy to forget one bigger point behind everything: we need to choose some priorities in every project we undertake. Localizing 1Password in multiple project might not look like much to most, but it's actually a mammoth task if you want to do things right. Our first priority so far has been to translate 100% of strings in some of our most used languages. Taking care of the details can definitely come in the next phase, but until now we didn't want to get stuck in the details and risk leaving some parts of the apps untranslated to focus on style details.

    Hope this makes sense!

  • @DanielP Thank you for your detailed and quick response! Yes, it makes sense and I think we are in agreement then. I see now that my post may have seen a bit harsh, my apologies. For the record I'm very happy, from a translator's point of view, how you have handled the localization of 1Password.

  • DanielPDanielP

    Team Member

    No worries at all @Xe997, it's a good discussion to have ;) And thank you for your help!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited December 2017

    Great discussion here! :)

    @Xe997: One thing you said really pointed to my own thinking on this (and I think ours more collectively):

    (All that said, I DO capitalize terms I choose to leave in English, like Watchtower, Secret Key and 1Password Extension Helper, which is the preferred way to handle English terms in the context of software).

    "1Password" is a really extreme example of something we leave as "English" and treat a certain way for emphasis even in other languages. I think there's a case to be made for keeping "Master Password" as English across all translations, as with things like the Secret Key, etc. (though that may change over time with the latter).

    I think there are good arguments for keeping terminology and formatting consistent within 1Password, and the only argument I can make against keeping "Master Password" in English the way we do with some of the other terms is that users understanding that this is their "one password to rule them all" is absolutely critical, so that they don't forget it, or use a weak one. So in that sense I think translating it into the target language is really important, even if we don't adopt all of the conventions of that language. Making an exception in that sense emphasizes that the Master Password is itself exceptionally important I think.

    That said, nothing is set in stone, so these kinds of conversations are always welcome. Cheers! :)

This discussion has been closed.