Converting to Families from Standalone with multiple personal vaults
I currently have two standalone licenses (Windows & Mac) with a single personal vault on Windows (because that's all the version I have supports), and 2 vaults on the Mac, with the vault on Windows being synced to the Mac as well, for a total of 3 vaults accessible on the Mac.
I understand that when I switch to the subscription account, since the Mac has multiple vaults it won't convert automatically. The doc has a link to moving things manually, but that link doesn't seem to apply directly to the situation of conversion from standalone to subscription but to moving items among vaults, which is something I really don't want to do.
My 2nd Mac vault is an Archive vault I use for old passwords I don't expect to use but don't want to lose (for a variety of reasons).
Will the subscription version allow me to continue to have two vaults on my Mac (one private/not shared, the other shared with another family member), or do I have to change how I operate 1P?
(I suspect you have covered this use case somewhere before, but I couldn't find it via searching...sorry if I missed something obvious)
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Dropbox
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OK, with more than a bit of embarrassment I realize you actually addressed, at least partially, these questions in this thread (https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/360780) about a year ago. Sorry for the poor memory.
Two followups...
I understand that it is possible to have a local-only vault AND a subscription account vault. Can there be multiple subscription account vaults as well, for a single user?
The only reason I didn't move to a subscription version is that a year ago you told me that all of the documents I currently have linked to software licenses won't carry over to the subscription version (well, more accurately all the attachments will be moved to the Documents category but the links to the individual software licenses will be lost). You also said that I could manually relink them, but that these links will be "Mac only" (which I presume means "locally only"). And finally, you said that you didn't know whether this would change in the future. So, my obvious question is: Is what you told me a year ago still true, or has the feature set for documents (formerly attachments) grown more robust so if I switch to the subscription version I can continue to use 1P to handle my software licenses and track (by associating with the licenses) the emails I got when I purchased the software (with a lot of information that isn't stored in the software license in 1P).
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@camner: No worries! I think I read that myself at the time (even though I didn't happen to participate, I see most of what's posted here), but I'd forgotten it until the link logged my memory.
Will the subscription version allow me to continue to have two vaults on my Mac (one private/not shared, the other shared with another family member), or do I have to change how I operate 1P?
That will work. But it's so easy to manage vaults in a 1Password.com account that you'll probably end up creating more as well.
1) I understand that it is possible to have a local-only vault AND a subscription account vault. Can there be multiple subscription account vaults as well, for a single user?
Yep! Just keep in mind that the Primary vault (if present) will be the Master Password used to unlock the app. Otherwise it will be the Master Password of the first account you sign into. I've got more than one 1Password.com account setup in the app on most of my devices too, and a local vault on a few of them. Just keep in mind that the local vaults is completely separate from any account.
2) The only reason I didn't move to a subscription version is that a year ago you told me that all of the documents I currently have linked to software licenses won't carry over to the subscription version (well, more accurately all the attachments will be moved to the Documents category but the links to the individual software licenses will be lost). You also said that I could manually relink them, but that these links will be "Mac only" (which I presume means "locally only"). And finally, you said that you didn't know whether this would change in the future. So, my obvious question is: Is what you told me a year ago still true, or has the feature set for documents (formerly attachments) grown more robust so if I switch to the subscription version I can continue to use 1P to handle my software licenses and track (by associating with the licenses) the emails I got when I purchased the software (with a lot of information that isn't stored in the software license in 1P).
Item attachments will be automatically converted to Documents and linked to the original items if you perform the migration in 1Password for Mac, and those can be shown by the iOS and Windows apps as well. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)
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Thanks for the response! Quick follow-up to make sure I do the conversion correctly …
Associated with my master password I have 2 vaults. If I understand correctly what I read online, automatic conversion
to a subscription account will not work because I have multiple vaults. How do I handle things so I can have the conversion occur automatically (so I can get attachments that are currently linked to software licenses moved over correct, with links preserved)?0 -
@camner: Where are the vaults? Dropbox? If so, it might be easiest to remove the secondary vaults from 1Password, go through the migration process for the Primary, and then add the others to copy the data over (after you've setup additional vaults in your account). Does that sound reasonable?
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Sorry to be slow in responding...I was out of town and for some reason didn't get email notification of your 2nd reply.
Yes, the vaults are in Dropbox. I know how to turn off Dropbox syncing, of course, but how do I remove the secondary vault from 1P?
And, what about my wife's vault, which is on a Windows machine running 1P v4? That's shared with me, so I can see it on my iMac. When we move her to the subscription, will 1P v6 Windows convert her vault just the same as 1P Mac v6 will?
(Sorry to be peppering you with questions, but I'm presuming that getting this right the first time is MUCH easier than realizing I skipped a step and then having to go backwards, some how.)
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Sorry to be slow in responding...I was out of town and for some reason didn't get email notification of your 2nd reply.
@camner: No worries. I hope you had a nice trip! :)
Yes, the vaults are in Dropbox. I know how to turn off Dropbox syncing, of course, but how do I remove the secondary vault from 1P?
In 1Password for Mac, just switch to the vault you want to remove and select the delete option from the 1Password menu in the menu bar. There is no need to disable sync first.
And, what about my wife's vault, which is on a Windows machine running 1P v4? That's shared with me, so I can see it on my iMac. When we move her to the subscription, will 1P v6 Windows convert her vault just the same as 1P Mac v6 will?
We have a similar process for setting things up on Windows, but you won't need to migrate that same vault twice. In fact, we encourage you not to, so you don't end up with duplicates. It will be simpler for her because she will only need to migrate her main vault to her new account (if she has a vault that only she uses) on her PC after she sets up her account with the invite from you. When you move the items from the shared Dropbox vault to the Shared vault in 1Password Families, she will automatically have access to that just by signing in to her account on her devices. The tough thing for you two may be deciding if how to share though, so I'd suggest setting up your own stuff first to get a feel for it, and then we can talk about the various ways you could use vault sharing depending on your preferences.
(Sorry to be peppering you with questions, but I'm presuming that getting this right the first time is MUCH easier than realizing I skipped a step and then having to go backwards, some how.)
You're absolutely right about that! Better to get it setup the way you want the first time. Also, happy wife, happy life. ;)
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Back again...my iMac lost its hard drive and I needed to take care of that.
I'm confused by this:
In 1Password for Mac, just switch to the vault you want to remove and select the delete option from the 1Password menu in the menu bar. There is no need to disable sync first.
I don't want to lose this vault permanently. If I "delete" it, isn't it gone forever? I thought the idea was to somehow disassociate the vault from 1P during the conversion and then somehow reassociate again.
Or is that when I "delete" the vault via 1P, it won't actually physically remove the file from the Mac filesystem but will just delete it from 1P?
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Back again...my iMac lost its hard drive and I needed to take care of that.
@camner: Ouch. Hopefully all is well now though. :)
I don't want to lose this vault permanently. If I "delete" it, isn't it gone forever? I thought the idea was to somehow disassociate the vault from 1P during the conversion and then somehow reassociate again.
Ah, I'm sorry for the confusion. You asked,
how do I remove the secondary vault from 1P?
So I didn't try to read too much into the question when answering it. But the new question is a good one, and I'll address it below along with this one:
Or is that when I "delete" the vault via 1P, it won't actually physically remove the file from the Mac filesystem but will just delete it from 1P?
It depends on how you have things setup. If you only have that vault in the 1Password app and delete it, it's gone (apart from backups that contain it, either in 1Password itself and/or on whatever you're using to backup your whole Mac). But if you have a sync'd copy of the vault in Dropbox, that will remain when removing the vault from 1Password (unless you also tell 1Password to delete the sync'd copy). Does that help?
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I recognize that this is a particularly busy time for you, with the 1P v7 rollout, so I’ll understand if you can’t get to this for a while
OK, so the password gods don’t seem to want me to move to a subscription model...after getting the hard drive replaced my wife was scheduled for surgery, which had to take precedence over mucking around with 1P...
I just read that with the subscription version, a personal/private vault cannot be shared with others (I suppose that’s what “personal/private” ought to mean!).
So, I want to know if my current set up (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) can be done.
Within my 2-person family there are three vaults: 2 vaults that are “mine” in that they open with my master password, and 1 vault that is my “wife’s” which opens with HER master password.
We have no need or desire to keep our own stuff private from the other, and occasionally want to be able to access stuff in the other person’s vault. My wife wants to have her own vault primarily because she doesn’t want to have to see (and wade through) all the crapola in MY vault when she searches for something in HER vault.
So, it appears that we don’t want any “personal/private” vaults. I presume that’s possible? And that it is possible in the subscription version, as it is in the standalone, to push a copy of an item from one vault to another?
Hmmm...I just had an idea. Perhaps all we need is an individual subscription account with one master password, and we’ll set up 3 vaults (my 2 and her 1). She can set her 1P prefs on her computer (Windows) and iDevices to show only search results from her vault, yes? And I can set my 1P prefs to show only search results from my primary vault (my other one is an Archive vault that I use for credentials that are no longer active but that I may occasionally want to refer to).
Maybe this would be simpler for our use case?
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@camner: I'm sorry for the technological and health troubles you and you family have been facing. Thanks for taking the time to get in touch, especially under the circumstances. Hopefully your wife is on the mend, the new hard drive is chugging along merrily, and you can find some time to recharge yourself! :blush:
Regarding your 1Password situation, I'm glad you asked, and included those details. I think there are two options worth considering: an individual 1Password.com membership you and your wife share, or a 1Password Families membership with your wife added as a guest. Certainly there are other possibilities, but based on your description those seem most promising.
With an individual membership, you'd both have access to everything in the account, but you can hide individual vaults in the app (or select a specific one you want to view). On the plus side, it's cheaper than 1Password Families. The downside I see to this is that you'd both have to use the same Master Password. For some people that's not a problem though, so it's worth considering.
With a 1Password Families account, you could invite her as a guest, in which case she would have access to only a single vault you share with her, and get to choose her own Master Password. I think this is the more elegant solution, but of course if my wife and I were okay with sharing everything — including a Master Password — and didn't have the need to share with others in the family, we'd also go this route because it's more affordable.
Let me know if you have any questions at all, or if there are other considerations involved, and we'll go from there. Have a great weekend! :)
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Well, after 42 years of sharing a bed, a house, a couple of kids, checking accounts, and even an email address, I don't think I'll draw the line at sharing a 1P master password!
So, here's my plan; please let me know if it makes sense:
- Create a new vault in my standalone 1P and copy all of the contents of my wife's standalone vault to my new vault.
- Sync the new vault with Dropbox (my two existing vaults are already shared)
- Remove all vaults other than my primary vault from 1P (but they'll still exist in Dropbox)
- Sign up for an individual 1P subscription
- Sign into the 1P subscription and let it convert from the standalone
- Remove the primary vault from the standalone
- Import the two vaults from Dropbox
- Set my wife's 1P password on her PC and iDevices to default to search her vault only
- That's it (I think...)
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Well, after 42 years of sharing a bed, a house, a couple of kids, checking accounts, and even an email address, I don't think I'll draw the line at sharing a 1P master password!
@camner: I can't argue with that! :lol: :+1:
So, here's my plan; please let me know if it makes sense:
- Create a new vault in my standalone 1P and copy all of the contents of my wife's standalone vault to my new vault.
- Sync the new vault with Dropbox (my two existing vaults are already shared)
- Remove all vaults other than my primary vault from 1P (but they'll still exist in Dropbox)
- Sign up for an individual 1P subscription
- Sign into the 1P subscription and let it convert from the standalone
- Remove the primary vault from the standalone
- Import the two vaults from Dropbox
- Set my wife's 1P password on her PC and iDevices to default to search her vault only
- That's it (I think...)
Wow. You're good. I was ready to jump in and advise you about the complexities of migrating multiple vaults, but you're pretty much covered it! If you follow this guide starting at step 4, this will take you through most of it:
Move your existing 1Password data to a 1Password account
The only caveat is that this Primary-to-account migration process is currently the only way to automatically convert items with attachments to Documents, so you may need to do a little bit manually using the move option. Be sure to let me know if there's anything at all I can help with. :chuffed:
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I DEFINITELY want automatically convert items with attachments to Documents, since I have about 200 software licenses with attachments!
If I foul things up, is there the ability to carry out a “do over” (I’m not expecting an “undo” button!)? Some way of deleting the 1Password subscription vault and starting the conversion/migration over again. Can this be done?
(Sorry to be asking so many questions...this conversion process strikes me a good time for the measure twice, cut once approach. I’m also waiting for the Windows version 7 to come out so my wife makes 1 change from v4 to v7 rather than v4 to v6 to v7)
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@camner: That makes sense. You can actually totally get a "do over" if needed. Just keep your original vault, and you can delete the date you've imported into the account and just do it again (for example if you mix up the order). I don't see anything wrong with your plan though, so I think it will go smoothly. If not, we're here for you. :)
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OK, steps 1-6 went smoothly. So, then I moved on to step 7, to import the other 2 vaults into the subscription. But, that failed.
In 1P v6 (Mac) I I created a new vault, and then went to File-->Import. In the "Where is your data coming from" I selected "1Password". I then selected "Using the Mac App". At the next screen, it became clear that this method wanted me to export all of the items from the other vaults in .1pif format and then select that file to import into the vault I created.
At this point I could go to one of the other devices (another Mac) and export those vaults from there, but that doesn't feel consistent with what seemed like a simple step of "importing the two vaults from Dropbox."
Am I missing something obvious here?
(At what point in this process is it best to download and install version 7?)
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So, I've been trying some of my own troubleshooting, but haven't found the magic bullet yet. I tried double-clicking on an opvault, but since I'm signed into the 1P account, 1P won't open a standalone vault that way. I then thought "Aha, I'll just sign out of the 1P account, double-click on the opvault and then sign back in", but 1P has no ability to "sign out" of the account, at least as far as I can tell.
Grrr....
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@camner: Ah, sorry about that! Indeed, I'd start with 1Password 7 right off. And then if you go into Preferences > Advanced, you'll have an option to enable local vaults. That will allow you to add the OPVault by double-clicking it. Just be sure that you disable that again once you're done. You can sign out of the account in Preferences > Accounts (
-on the bottom), but I suspect you won't need to. Let me know how it goes! :)0 -
I thought about that (enabling local vaults in Preferences > Advanced), but that immediately said that it would create a new vault called Primary and that this new vault would be used to unlock 1Password in the future. I wasn’t sure what the implication of that was. I presume I can still import the old standalone vaults into whatever subscription vault(s) I wish, yes?
As for v6 vs v7, I have already done all the steps other than the importing of the two remaining standalone vaults in v6. Does v7 do the conversion from standalone to subscription differently/better than v6 so it would be worth my starting over? If so, what do you mean above by “you can delete the date you’ve imported into the account”?
Thanks for all of your help. I think I’m close, and I’ll wait to here back from you before proceeding with step 7.
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littlebobbytables describes the implications of Primary vaults here:
https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/435660/#Comment_435660
You can still import as you wish, yes. I’m not aware of any significant changes to the migration process from v6 to v7, but perhaps @brenty can refresh my memory if there were changes...
I hope that helps!
Ben
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Thanks, Ben. I presume that after enabling the Primary vault and then importing from the other standalone vault, I can then disable Local vaults. Yes?
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OK, so it (eventually!) all worked out, and I think I've set everything up correctly. Thanks to all for your help!
Finally, since I can’t imagine I’m anywhere close to the only one who wishes to move multiple vaults to the subscription version, shouldn’t/couldn’t there be more explicit instructions about how to do this beyond the line on the “how to move to subscription” doc page that says if one has multiple vaults one will have to move them manually? Why not create a page for those in this position and present something like the list I created above (after several back and forths with you) fleshed out a little? And put a link on the main “how to convert” page? (And, if I’ve missed this somewhere, please accept my apologies).
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@camner: Honestly very few people ever used multiple local vaults. But I hope we'll be able to make it possible to easily migrate any vault to another, so that linked items will move too and remain linked. I'm not sure if or when that might happen, but I think that would be even better than documentation, as it would also help folks who just want to move stuff to a different vault within an account. Thank you for your feedback on this! :)
ref: apple-737
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Well, in the standalone version, aren’t all vaults “local” in that a copy of whatever vaults are used are stored on each local machine? If so, then anyone with more than one vault involved converting to subscription and thus required some sort of the machinations I had to go through, no? Even if my wife and I had decided on a family subscription, there still would have been my two vaults, one of which wouldn’t have converted automatically.
So are you saying that in the vast empire of 1P users spread out over the globe before the subscription model came out only a few of the hordes of users had more than 1 vault?
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When we talk about "local vaults" we're talking about any vault that isn't part of 1Password membership. Multiple vaults was always a power user feature. The average customer did not take advantage. I don't think it was limited to "only a few," and it is hard to put an estimate on it considering we don't collect any statistics, but based on all of the diagnostic reports I've reviewed I'd say it is well under 50%. That said, there is certainly room for improvement in this process.
Ben
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I really appreciate your responsiveness...over the years I’ve been with 1P, it’s always been great. My thought about better documentation isn’t a complaint...I think it would be better for you, too, because if people like me, who almost always search for good documentation first, could get their answers there, we wouldn’t have to take up so much of your time to write great responses!
Anyway, I really appreciate how hard you folks work to respond to users. As you well know, this isn’t as common as we all wish it were.
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I really appreciate your responsiveness...over the years I’ve been with 1P, it’s always been great. My thought about better documentation isn’t a complaint...I think it would be better for you, too, because if people like me, who almost always search for good documentation first, could get their answers there, we wouldn’t have to take up so much of your time to write great responses!
Absolutely. Understood. :)
Anyway, I really appreciate how hard you folks work to respond to users
You're very welcome. Thanks for saying so.
As you well know, this isn’t as common as we all wish it were.
Indeed.
Ben
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