Question: Related Items / Link Existing
Hi, for some reason that I don't know yet when you link one item to another item why the action is not back2back?
For example, I created a login —named A— for my bank account login credentials. Then, I created another item under credit cards for my credit card bank info for the same bank account —named B. When I link the login named A to the credit card slot named B, the action is created independently of the linked icons. So, I end up having to link both named A and named B twice & separately if I want both of them to show in their profile that they have A or B linked to each other.
Sincerely,
ToInfinity&Beyond
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Comments
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That's a fantastic question. There are two answers to this.
The first is non-technical. As a user linking items you might expect that when linking A to B that the link be bidirectional such that going to items A or B you would see a link to the other. The answer to this is that we haven't been quite convinced that all links should be bi-directional. Does it mean the same think to create a link from my Passport item to a Document item that's a photo of my passport compared to the inverse? It'd certainly be nice when viewing that photo of my passport to see that there's a Passport item that links to it. This isn't necessarily bi-directional linking as much as making visible the link. This way I could see two lists: items that A points to. and items that point to A. We haven't quite decided on which is the correct approach. Item links haven't quite turned out as we originally planned. There's still a lot of potential there though.
The second answer is the technical side of it (where I get to have fun). 1Password works with items in a vault. A link between A and B is represented as an attribute within A dictating that it has a link to B (this can be seen by copying out the JSON for an item). And so technically A pointing to B does not change B at all. When viewing B, there's no hints in the B item that A points to it. This means that in order to know what items point to B to show there, much more processing needs to be done. It could be done though, we just haven't done it yet. That processing could happen far before you actually view B. When importing the newest version of item A from the server, it could detect the link and create an association between A and B in the local app so that that information is ready to go when viewing B later.
That's a whole lot of words to effectively say : cause we haven't gotten there yet. I hope it provides a bit more information on the why though.
Rick
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Hi @rickfillion,
Thank you for your awesome in-depth technical explanation. This sure says a lot of the complexity that goes into the workbench. I have a more clear understanding now.
ToInfinity&Beyond
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Great. Don't hesitate to send more questions our way. :)
Rick
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@rickfillion could 1password create a pop-up menu like. "would you like to link A to B (A points to B) /// Would you like to link A and B (meaning both see each other)
That would kind of be a solution to your non-technical problem.. you leave it to the user to choose if a picture of a passport should link to a passport and vice-versa
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Yup, that's something we've considered. I would rather see us go with another option that doesn't put more burden on the user though.
Rick
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If I could throw my two cents in here, I would vote for bidirectionally. Lets say I have five banks accounts at one bank, each with their own entry (as each has its own number). Then I have a log-in entry as well, that covers all of them. Without bidirectionality, do I link the bank accounts to the log in? Or the log in to the bank accounts? That's not a rhetorical question btw...haha...since there isn't bi-directionality, what should I do?
But my two cents are, it would be nice to be able to link them up, then when I am viewing the log item, just be able to hit the related item and go to the bank. And vice versa. Because do that now, I have to do twice as much "linking". Perhaps if you are worried about all the computation sucking involved...just default to the behavior you have now, but have a preference that says "Make Links Bidirectional" for those of us who are really jonesing?
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Hey @paranoyd
but have a preference that says "Make Links Bidirectional" for those of us who are really jonesing?
I think if you do a search on this forum for "add a preference" you may be able to get some sense of why we don't do this. If we did every time somebody asked the 1Password preferences pane would have to be 20 pages long. 😅
That isn't necessarily a hard "no" - but we already have a fair number of preferences, and so we're pretty particular about adding any more.
Because do that now, I have to do twice as much "linking".
Indeed. That's really the best solution for now, but hopefully we can come up with something better in the future. :)
Ben
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Yeah, I totally get why you need to choose your preferences carefully, I don't even need to do that search. :)
What are people generally doing with a situation where there are say, 10 bank accounts to 1 log in. Going to the log in (and linking to the 10 from there)? Or going to the 10 individuals and linking to the 1 log-in? The advantage of linking from the single log in is you can see, in one place, all the links that log-in has. But the disadvantage is, if you are in the bank account, you can't just jump right to the log in.
Or are people just double-linking?
P.S. It seems you can't link items from one vault to another?
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What are people generally doing with a situation where there are say, 10 bank accounts to 1 log in. Going to the log in (and linking to the 10 from there)? Or going to the 10 individuals and linking to the 1 log-in? The advantage of linking from the single log in is you can see, in one place, all the links that log-in has. But the disadvantage is, if you are in the bank account, you can't just jump right to the log in.
Personally? I'd create a tag and apply that tag to all of the items. Others may have other ideas. :) I'm sure given the variety of possibilities you might find people who are doing it any number of ways.
Or are people just double-linking?
I can't say as I recall any instances where I've "double-linked"... My use case tends to be more like what Rick described above with e.g. a Passport item which links to a Document item that is my Passport photo. As alluded above, I'm sure there are people who do it, though. :)
P.S. It seems you can't link items from one vault to another?
Correct. One of the technical reasons for that is that item IDs are not unique across vaults. So you could have an item in vault A with an ID and a different item in vault B with the same ID. Another reason would be that it is possible that someone has access to one of the vaults but not the other, which would cause the link to be broken for some people but not others. I believe there are other reasons as well.
Ben
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On a somewhat related note... I have a bank login. I have linked that to 4 accounts that I have with that bank. I also have a visa card with that bank (Credit or debit shouldn't matter)
do I link it to the bank login, or to the various accounts - some cards have options to link to multiple accounts (i.e. select savings on the atm or checkout to use account x or select checking to use account y?
I gather reverse linking is feasible but not recommended, but that begs some questions - 1. can links be hierarchical i.e bank to account to card, 2. can they be parallel - i.e. bank to account to card as well as bank to card. (both parallel path, and multiple links to an entity) 3. Could (or does) the entry for something that is linked to. (i.e. the card in this instance) report that it has links to it (whether that provides detail or otherwise is another matter.
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do I link it to the bank login, or to the various accounts - some cards have options to link to multiple accounts (i.e. select savings on the atm or checkout to use account x or select checking to use account y?
I am not sure I understand the question, can you please elaborate? If I understand it correctly, you can do both, depending on which option you prefer. Or were you perhaps looking for a suggestion?
In the meantime, to answer your questions:
- can links be hierarchical i.e bank to account to card, 2.
Yes.
can they be parallel - i.e. bank to account to card as well as bank to card. (both parallel path, and multiple links to an entity)
Also yes.
- Could (or does) the entry for something that is linked to. (i.e. the card in this instance) report that it has links to it (whether that provides detail or otherwise is another matter.
At the moment this is not possible: if you open an item, you can see what other items it links to, but you can currently not see whether there are other items linking back to it.
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Yup, that answers it - the first bit became redundant when the later bits were answered.
thx
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:) :+1:
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I've had this question for such a long time and was directed here by 1Password's twitter account (thanks, btw). Thanks for the explanation. For the longest time, I just thought I was missing something.
I think what it ultimately comes down to is, "What is a user's expectation when using this feature?" I think that's bidirectionality.
So when 1Password only links in one direction, it's my opinion that most users will feel like something is either broken or they've done something wrong.
I'm curious - Have you done any A/B or user tests in this area to know for sure what users want?
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Thanks for chiming in. I've shared your post with our UX team for their consideration. :+1:
Ben
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Reaching way back to 2018 and @rickfillion :
I would rather see us go with another option that doesn't put more burden on the user though.
For me the current workflow is pretty burdensome vs. competitors. I'm relatively new to 1password and generally really like it, but these things are not ideal:
1. The lack of image field types. I understand this is intentional, but it adds many clicks and much complexity when I just want to, say, include a picture of my driver's license in my driver's license item.
2. The lack of automatic bi-directional linkingIf I must treat images as separate docs and manually link them, I'd at least like an option to have the second link created for me rather than to keep the burden on me. Maybe a checkbox next to the "link to existing" button.
There is undoubtedly room for some more quality-of-life improvements for the super common use case of wanting images associated to an item. Off the top of my head, a user story might be:
"As a user, I'd like to add a bidirectionaly linked image document to the item I'm currently editing, without leaving the edit page for that item and with a minimum of clicks".
I think you could draw inspiration from the one-time password fields and QR code icon/button that gives you a scanning window. A "linked document" field type with support (icons) to upload a file or take a picture from an available camera. From the mobile app that means I could be editing my driver's license item, add a field for the associated image, tap the icon to take a picture from my camera, take that picture and be done! It could create and doubly link the image document to the driver's license item.
Keep up the good work with the product, team!
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