Is there a route back after the account trial
Just thinking ahead and wondering what is the route back to a non-family account is should I decide not to purchase a subscription after the 30-day trial.
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Standalone usage synchronised via iCloud between iPhone, iPad and Mac.
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You can. It's posted somewhere if you search... there are several steps and a reboot, but you'll be able to do it after some time/effort is expended.
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@Corey_C Thank you. Two main concerns after two days. Documents not being directly attached, wouldn't be too bad if the document showed which record it was attached to and lack of timely sync from my iOS devices to my iMac and seemingly no way to force a sync. I'm sure neither are insurmountable.
Regards
PS, can I get 1P to automagically untick the stay logged in box on a login screen?
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Let's address those concerns @iwaddo
Documents not being directly attached, wouldn't be too bad if the document showed which record it was attached to
They do. Are you aware that you can link any item in your 1Password vault to any other item? If you open up 1Password, click an item, press the Edit button and scroll down, there will be a section called "Related Items" where you can link an item to any other item in your vault.
lack of timely sync from my iOS devices to my iMac and seemingly no way to force a sync.
That is really strange. Sync between two devices on the same membership should be effectively instant. Is that not what you are experiencing? Can you elaborate?
PS, can I get 1P to automagically untick the stay logged in box on a login screen?
I can check about implementing that, or if implementing it is possible, but that is not currently a function of 1Password. It's best to just remember to untick that yourself before filling your information.
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Unless I'm mistaken you can see if a document is linked to an item when looking at related items in the item itself, but I cannot see that a document tells me which items it is related to. I'm really struggling to get my head around the extra unattached and inaccuratley named documents I now have since upgrading.
Timely sync, I posted earlier https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/90982/iphone-ipad-has-503-items-my-imac-512#latest but never got a response - I've not tested this further. It is on my to-do list.
Unticking items, is very low priority, but thank you.
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Hey don't be sorry, you guys are doing a great job and you certainly seem to have your hands full.
Is there a blog or post that I can read that explains the logic behind the document architecture?
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Hi @iwaddo,
I was part of the group that designed the current Document architecture. I'd be happy to talk about our thoughts there.
Our goal was "Better attachments than attachments in 1Password 5 for Mac." Those older attachments had some limitations that we really didn't like:
- They weren't downloaded on demand. This meant that your vault grew large quickly and made syncing slow across all of your devices. This lead to the low size limit of 5mb or so per file with old attachments.
- It wasn't possible to reference 1 file with multiple items
- It wasn't possible to store a file by itself in 1Password
We looked at these problems and decided that we could solve them by doing three things:
1. Promoting files to being first class citizens in 1Password. This allows one of my favorite features in 1Password.com: Document items. I love storing files in 1Password without thinking about other items.
2. Storing the encrypted file completely separately from the vault. This allowed us to only download files on the devices where you need them, making sync really fast and space efficient.
3. Making it possible to link one item to another item. This allows us to simulate "attachments" by linking to a Document item.By doing those 3 things we solved the problems we wanted to solve. At least technically. Now fast forward 3 years since those decisions where hashed out and I think that 1 and 2 were super solid ideas and I still stand by them. 3 on the other hand hasn't stood the test of time quite as well. It technically solves the problem, but the usability side effects there are unfortunate. I love the ability to link a single file between multiple items, and I wouldn't want that to go away... but I feel like there's more that should be done to make this problem better.
There's a bit of low hanging fruit for us: bi-directional linking. I say that this is low-hanging fruit cause it's at least conceptually simple, but in reality it's a little tricky and we haven't figured out a good way to do this yet... When I'm looking at a Passport item and click on the linked Document that is the photo of the passport, I should see some way to go back to the Passport. This could be implemented as something like a "back" button even like is common on iOS apps and would probably solve a good chunk of the pain. But ideally it'd be better than that and when you link item A to item B and view item B, you'd see item A listed.
That gets over some of the awkwardness but I think we need to go beyond that.
Documents as items are great, but just because they're great doesn't mean they need to be the only thing. Sometimes you want a file to be tightly associated with an item. Using my previous example... I really don't see when I'd want my passport photo to ever be associated with an item other than my Passport item. So... in those cases why not allow the passport item to point directly to the encrypted file that is my photo without needing to link to a separate item for it. This would technically be possible because of solution 2 above, it'd just require that we do a bit of work then teach all of our apps about it.
As with anything in life, hindsight is 20/20. If we were to design "modern attachments" today we'd do so differently than we did 3 years ago. I still think that what we have is better technologically than the old approach, but I think we need to push it forward a little more and in doing so we can bring the experience and usability up to the same level if not better than it used to be.
Rick
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@rickfillion hi, thank you for taking the time to respond and I really appreciate your transparency and honesty, it is very refreshing. I am sure you will soon get some of that low hanging fruit so I look forward to watching this develop.
My immediate concern is not having any internet connection therefore not being able to access my documents on-demand; travelling would be the obvious time, when I am in a country that either has poor or expensive internet but there are other times when it’s possible even in the UK not to have internet access.
There is no easy way to know if a document is downloaded and checking them manually is very tedious. Imagine updating my passport image using my iMac then forgetting to manually download it to each of my mobile devices and not realising until away from home in a situation where I needed it urgently.
I think there are some low hanging fruit that would be worth collecting
1, a download all documents button, I’ve loads of storage on my devices so let me make the decision to download everything
2, a purge cache of all downloaded documents button, except those in 3 below
3, the ability to set a document status to always download. If I change our passports and update them in the family shared vault I’d want to know they would auto download without asking each family member to manually download them again.
4, a visual indicator of a documents download status; changing the icon would be the most obvious way then I could easily scroll down to see which documents were and were not downloaded. Being able to swipe one way to download and the other to clear cache would be excellentI’d add ‘check document downloads’ to my pre travel checklist in PackingPro. On this point did you envisage 1P being used to store holiday travel documents, booking confirmations, copies of visas etc. Having promoted documents to first class citizens you are encouraging me to do this. This is a good thing.
I’m sure with more thought I could develop my thinking but hopefully this quick summary gives you an indication of what I’m thinking - happy to work with you directly and even beta test if it helps.
As mentioned, and if I decide to subscribe at the end of my trial period, I will look forward to watching this great product become an even better product and if I can help and contribute in anyway then even better.
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You're right, @iwaddo.
If you're a 1Password for Mac user, you might be interested in knowing that the newly released version 7 contains an encrypted backup feature where periodically (I believe it's every 24 hours) the app will make a local backup of your 1Password.com data to ensure that even in the worst case scenarios you would still have all of your data. One of the niggles there is that "all of your data" should, by definition of "all", contain your document files. So one of the features that has to come along with that is the ability to have files automatically downloaded locally (which would happen out of band from sync, so we'd still get the performance benefits).
I'd love for us to provide options there so that as a user you could dictate what the default behavior should be. Something like "Download All", "Download None", "Download All Less Than X MB".
I specifically mentioned 1Password for Mac as it's the only app that has this implemented so far, but the intention is for the encrypted backup feature to hit 1Password for Windows as well.
In the mean time, I believe if you select all of your Document items and bring up the context menu (right click), there should be a "Download All" menu item available for you.
I hope this helps.
Rick
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@rickfillion Thank you for your reply.
If 1P7 on my iMac is periodically making a local backup of my data, how do I get to it, how do I make use of it?
So I can force the download of all documents on my iMac, which is always internet connected, but not my mobile devices which are often disconnected from the internet - this seems a little odd.
I am very concerned about getting caught without a local copy of my documents due to lack of internet access. Can I periodically manually create a local vault based on everything on one of my account vaults, say before travelling?
Regards
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how do I get to it, how do I make use of it
For now, you don't and you don't, which isn't the answer you're looking for. 7.0 is creating the backups, but they aren't yet usable. The importer is coming in a subsequent release.
So I can force the download of all documents on my iMac, which is always internet connected, but not my mobile devices which are often disconnected from the internet - this seems a little odd.
Agreed. Mobile is a bit of a special beast there. It's more frequently disconnected from the internet, but it's also much more constrained for space. So the answer there isn't obvious. I think we'll need to have a preference/option there for users to be able to set.
For any app, once you've downloaded the document once, you should have locally forever. So for any important document you can make sure it's available on your device and then it should be available going forward.
Rick
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@rickfillion OK, I can make it all work but I am majorly concerned it relies to much on me tor others, sharing the documents, remembering to do something. This all feels a bit to clunky for me just now.
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It's not as good as it needs to be. It's something we need to do better.
Rick
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@Corey_C Hi, further up in this thread I asked the following question which you kindly you answered.
Q. PS, can I get 1P to automagically untick the stay logged in box on a login screen?
A. I can check about implementing that, or if implementing it is possible, but that is not currently a function of 1Password. It's best to just remember to untick that yourself before filling your information.
I have just use 1P Safari extension to fill in the login details on a site and noticed that 1P is ticking the unticked remember me box. I tried this several times, so it was not a fluke.
I then found that in the Saved Form Details 1P had remembered something called ConfirmAcceptableUsePolicy which had a ✓ next to it which 1P is using to tick the remember me box.
To prove this I edited the Saved Form Details to remove the tick next to ConfirmAcceptableUsePolicy and went back to the login screen of the website and before asking 1P to fill in the login details I ticked the remember me box myself. When 1P filled in the login details it removed the tick from the remember me box.
It seems that 1P has the capability so long as it recorded the field name in the Save Form Details.
It was the login form to this forum that prompted the question in the first place as I do not want the site to Remember Me and I have just tidied all the Saved Form Details for this forum and made sure there is a checkbox field called RememberMe that is unchecked and now every time I go to login to this form 1P successfully removes the tick box from Keep Me Signed in and it now all works as I wanted.
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@iwaddo: I'm not sure that Corey understood what you were asking, as it isn't clear to me either except in light of your latest comments. In cases where 1Password can save the state of the form, it can often reproduce it. We have not designed 1Password to do anything with checkboxes specifically, but it happens to work on many sites that use standard HTML elements. And, in general, we always recommend using the browser extension to save logins because it helps 1Password better know how to fill later on. Cheers! :)
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Ok. I’m delighted that I can get the result I wanted. Hopefully useful for others to know that by adding to the saved form details then changing the checkbox state it is possible to influence these checkboxes. Especially as my main culprit was this forum, it kept insisting that it wanted to remember my login 😉😃
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Hey, if you're happy, I'm happy! I also find that manually save a new login in the browser when I have the page filled the way I want is really useful for helping 1Password know the way I want it to fill in the future. Cheers! :)
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