Upgraded to 7, don't see sync preferences, and sometimes all passwords missing

jswhite

Been using 1password for many years. The experience upgrading from 6 to 7 is quite confusing, starting with the pricing options. I'm not sure why there's a big push to create a 1password account and use a subscription. The standalone license-based pricing information doesn't even seem to be available on the website.

Anyway, after creating an account, and importing my passwords, I sometimes open the app and see 0 passwords. Also, the preferences window doesn't have a sync tab to setup Dropbox. It just has General, Security, Accounts, Watchtower, Vaults, Browsers, Advanced.

Both of these are pretty unsettling. I'm guessing this may be related to the fact I went down the path of creating an account and subscription?

Tempted to abandon 7 or switch to standalone license version. So much confusion after everything just working for so long.

Is it straightforward to stick to dropbox sync for now and defer the decision of syncing via 1password.com? I'm hoping to stick with that before deciding to make a change to the sync method.

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1Password Version: 7.0.7
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: OS X 10.12.6
Sync Type: Dropbox

danco

One of the reasons for the subscription model is that it sync automatically using 1password.com, you don't have to set up your own syncing using Dropbox, etc. So there is no sync option in Preferences. Can be confusing for a long-term user, but it's easier for a new user; it's also easier for AgileBits to solve any syncing problems, as they are in full control of the syncing method.

One of the experts will have to deal with the passwords problem, but I have a suspicion of what is happening. You now have several vaults, Primary (this is a stand-alone vault that does not sync through 1password.com; when changing from a licence to a subscription Your passwords will be imported there) and Personal (the basic vault associated with your account; this may be empty to start with). I would guess that you are sometimes looking at your Primary Vault and sometimes at the Personal one.

The intention (though you are not forced to do it that way) is that you should copy all the passwords from Primary to Personal, and ultimately get rid of the Primary vault.

pm77

I bought a new laptop and decided to try out 1Password 7 and I'm having a similar problem. I think I made it a bit further into the import process but let me caution you that it renamed my 1Password folder on Dropbox and broke syncing to my other devices. My understanding is that if you started 1Password 7 with an account, it doesn't even offer the ability to import or sync from Dropbox. You have to remove the account from the 1Password 7 app, then make a "standalone" vault, then you will have the ability to sync. However, once I did that and pointed it to my Dropbox, it imported nothing and renamed and broke my 1Password Dropbox syncing, so keep that in mind if you try it.

I hate to be negative since I really do like 1Password, but the upgrade process from 6 to 7 is unacceptable and I think I'm going to bail on 1Password. I should have been able to point 1Password 7 directly to my .agilekeychain or .1pif backup and have it import right into my new account. Now I get to play computer janitor and try to figure out what I want to do next instead of just using 1P7.

1P4Me

I sometimes open the app and see 0 passwords

@jswhite I have a stand-alone license and I do have the same problem (posted here).
My workaround for now: after every reboot I have to restart 1P once. After a restart it usually works.

So I guess this particular one is a general 1P bug regardless of your licensing model. Just part of the v7 upgrade odyssey.
Sooner or later @Ben or somebody else from 1P will probably let the developers know about it. I hope.

Lars

Welcome to the forum, @jswhite! Thanks for being a long-time user of 1Password, we really appreciate it. And apologies for the confusion regarding upgrading to 1Password 7 for Mac.

I'm not sure why there's a big push to create a 1password account and use a subscription.

Because it's the best way to use 1Password for the vast majority of users. However, we continue to offer standalone licenses as well as 1password.com memberships because some of our users prefer standalone.

The standalone license-based pricing information doesn't even seem to be available on the website.

Both membership and standalone pricing discussed in detail in the blog post announcing the 1Password 7 for Mac launch.

Regarding sync, @danco is correct that the reason the Sync and Backup tabs are missing from 1Password 7 for Mac when you use a 1password.com membership is because 1password.com takes care of both of these things, eliminating the need for manual backups or for setting up sync.

I'm not sure why you're not seeing any of your passwords in 1Password 7 for Mac, but that sounds like a display issue. You can verify this by visiting your account in a browser instead (at https://my.1password.com if you signed up for an individual account, or whatever prefix you chose (instead of "my") if you chose a 1Password Families account), to make sure it's there. Does this happen when you're first opening 1Password after logging into your Mac's user account? After you wake from sleep (your Mac, I mean, not you ;) )? When you re-unlock after having been away? No pattern that you can discern? The more information you can give us, the better.

With regard to taking a "wait and see" approach, I think that's a good one -- except that since it sounds as if you've already created a 1password.com account, I'd say there's no reason you shouldn't use it for the full 30-day free trial period, and see if you like it the way it is. If, at the end of that time, you feel like you want to return to setting up, maintaining and troubleshooting your own sync via Dropbox, then you can certainly transfer all your passwords back to a standalone vault and purchase a standalone license -- though I can't say when our "launch special" pricing of $49.99 instead of the regular price of $64.99 will end. Let me know if you have any follow-up questions. :)

Lars

Welcome to the forum, @pm77! Sorry for the difficulties you're having getting set up with 1Password 7 for Mac.

I bought a new laptop and decided to try out 1Password 7...

That's likely going to have been a big part of where things went off the rails -- the install process for 1Password 7 for Mac has a pretty simple pathway for upgrading users from earlier versions to 1Password 7 for Mac, and another pretty straightforward one for brand-new users who are installing 1Password for Mac for the first time with version 7, but it gets a bit trickier if you're an existing user who tries to upgrade at the same time they purchase and begin using a brand-new computer. In such a situation, you know you're an existing user, but 1Password doesn't because there's no indication of it on this brand-new device: no library files, no data, nothing. This isn't your fault, but is is a much less-common edge case.

I think I made it a bit further into the import process but let me caution you that it renamed my 1Password folder on Dropbox and broke syncing to my other devices.

Really? What was the folder called previously, and what was it renamed to? The 1Password 7 for Mac installation process certainly shouldn't have renamed the folder itself. One thing that did happen, however, is that in 1Password 7 for Mac, we've finally retired the now-over-ten-years-old Agile Keychain format for sync with Dropbox. It was great in its day, but that day passed a while ago. Its replacement, OPVault, has already been out for four years. In previous versions for some time now, any new keychains created (like if you had a second or third vault that you decided to sync via Dropbox) would be in the newer OPVault format, but we still allowed syncing of existing Agile Keychains created by older versions. In 1Password 7 for Mac, we deprecated Agile Keychains. So, in the first-run of 1Password 7 for Mac, if you try to sync with Dropbox, you'll get this message that your Agile Keychain(s) need to be upgraded:

Clicking "Convert Vault" (which it appears you did...?) will rename any existing .agilekeychain files to .legacyagilekeychain, then write out a new .opvault file into the same folder in Dropbox that the now-defunct Agile Keychain was in, and sync to that. The change of filename is why any other devices you have which were still syncing with the older Agile Keychain will, yes, need to be updated to use the new OPVault. Fortunately, this is relatively easy: just disable sync on each of such devices, then re-enable it but point it at the OPVault file instead, and you'll be back up and running...er, syncing. :)

By the way, if this is starting to sound like a bit of a pain to anyone else in this thread, well, that's just one of the reasons we recommend 1password.com accounts to the vast majority of users: no more mucking around with manual sync: setting it up, maintaining it (like when keychain versions are deprecated), troubleshooting it (when things go wrong): just sign into your 1password.com account in the 1Password app on every device you use it on, and away you go. Just some food for thought, for anyone else reading this thread.

My understanding is that if you started 1Password 7 with an account...you have to remove the account from the 1Password 7 app, then make a "standalone" vault, then you will have the ability to sync.

That's not accurate, unless you don't want the account, which begs the question: why sign up for it? If you have a1password.com account and you do want to use it, you can import older data from Agile Keychains in Dropbox by this method:

1. In 1Password 7 for Mac, click File > Import and in the following dialogue box, choose the top option,
   
2. Use the drop-down to choose which vault in your 1password.com account you want to import the older Agile Keychain data into.
3. Click "Choose File" and navigate to your Dropbox folder, and select the Agile Keychain in question.
4. Click Open.

This should import everything into the selected vault in your 1password.com account, but click to view the results, just to make sure. Hope that helps, but let us know if you hit any snags or have any follow-up questions.

pm77

Hi @Lars, thanks for the detailed reply. The File > Import option did it (although I find it odd to select Other in order to pick a .1pif backup). I think it would be great to add that to the online documentation because I never noticed this function.

Please note that I was attempting to import from an already populated vault (I had Dropbox sync before 1Password loaded, and I actually did install 1Password 6 first) and I was not able to convince 1Password 7 that my .1pif nor my .agilekeychain were valid to import from. When I finally removed the 1Password 7 online vault and got the sync option in Preferences, I was able to tell it to import my old data. 1P7 flashed the screen telling me it needed to convert my data, and reported success, however none of the items from the Dropbox vault ever showed up. After using the File > Import from a .1pif like you recommended, all of my items appeared. Since I was in this hinterland between 6 and 7 after the .agilekeychain got renamed to .legacyagilekeychain, I was concerned about making any changes until I got things straight and had a good backup of my data to recover from. I think maybe I hit the "weird setup" lottery here but as someone who has been using 1Password since 2011, I expected it to Just Work™ ;)

Additionally, the reason I want both options to sync to 1Password as well as my own vault is, first: I want to trial the online vault before putting crucial info into it (and only it!), and second: I have a number of clients who I do not want to merge with my personal vault and they have not given me clearance to use 1Password to store their data online; only manage it while stored on Dropbox. I know it's not a common use case but it works well for me and allows me to keep business and personal data segregated.

jswhite

When syncing via 1password.com, is there a file somewhere on my disk that can be used in case the centralized data is lost/corrupted? Or would I need to do an occasional export manually? This gives me some peace of mind, given I can at least recover via a hard drive backup.

Lars

@pm77 - I'm glad you got it sorted out; This particular upgrade (from 6 --> 7) comes at a time when we are also experiencing a large surge of previous standalone customers switching over to 1password.com accounts for ease of use, security and various other reasons, so there are a number of moving parts. Ironically, it tends to be with our more-savvy, long-time customers where we see some of the unusual edge-cases, because these are the users who understood our older (standalone-only) way of doing things pretty well and had carved out their own niches in that space. That's why we're here to assist and explain as needed, however, so feel free to drop by anytime if you have further issues or follow-up questions. And don't forget to destroy that exported .1pif file; it's an unencrypted copy of all your data; you don't want that hanging around on your hard drive. Cheers!

Lars

@jswhite - your local 1Password application keeps a cache of all your data in your 1password.com account. It's extremely unlikely the data on 1password.com servers would be "lost/corrupted" for several reasons: one, we don't modify or do anything in particular with your data there -- it's simply encrypted ciphertext that you manipulate only in the context of your own devices (unless you're accessing the server copy directly via a browser window). We use Amazon's AWS service as our actual server host, so if you know anything about their disaster preparedness plans or data redundancy specs, it's probably the best in the business, currently. Iterative backups are made for you on the server, including individual item history. So you've always go that available.

And finally, if we ever go poof because of war or disaster or company mismanagement or any other doomsday scenario, you can use your local copy of 1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows to create a local vault and move your items over to a local setup with local backups.

jswhite

@Lars Thanks for the detailed info. Let's say I erroneously delete all my passwords and that gets synced everywhere. I'd want to be able to restore from a previous version. If there's a file on disk, I'd be able to restore that file from a previous version using my cloud backup provider.

Lars

@jswhite - in 1password.com, we have fine-grained restoration at the individual item level, so that if you accidentally change/delete a specific item, you can use these instructions to restore previous versions of an item. Currently, however, there's no way to do vault-level restore, so my suggestion would be: try not to erroneously delete your entire database. I know that sounds flip, but it's not intended to. Vault-level restore is something we'd like to implement soon, but it's been less of a priority because it's not something people tend to do offhandedly (delete the contents of an entire vault (but not the vault itself) without meaning to), but also because in 1password.com accounts, the server copy of the data is the "canonical" record, whereas with standalone, it's whatever the local copy says.

jswhite

@Lars I would of course never make that mistake :-). I'm just trying to come up with a simple hypothetical. Accidental or malicious activity can happen by humans or via software. The point is more that I'm good with using 1password to sync, but having an actual file that can be used as part of more general cloud backups is a nice safety line. It looks like I would just need to occasionally export to .1pif and then I have something tangible on disk in case of disaster, though it is unfortunately unencrypted. I supposed I can manually encrypt it, though.

Lars

@jswhite - you can certainly do that if it makes you more comfortable, though your point about 1pif being an unencrypted format is an excellent one, and I'd be quite careful how you handle that. You wouldn't want to let someone in through the front door while you're fortifying the back door. If someone got access (physical or virtual) to your computer, unless they could execute arbitrary code as root (which is pretty much game over), they still wouldn't be able to access your 1Password data without your Master Password...but an unencrypted 1pif file you forgot to delete or encrypt would be a bonanza.