Release on august the first [August is the month we're aiming for the first stable update]

ntimontimo
edited July 2016 in Windows Beta

Hi there,

I just wanted to ask if the release on august the first is still planned and not being delayed?

Thx,
Timo :)

Comments

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @ntimo,

    We're still on track for August release, yes. There were some mentions of 1st but it is the month itself that we're aiming for. We may release on 1st or we could release on 31st.

  • @MikeT good to know that. I thought it would be August the first. Because I will add my main account and remove the test account when 1Password 6 for Windows is out of beta ;)

  • Do you have a list of features that are planned to be done for the release, there are obviously some major features still missing.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited July 2016

    Hi guys,

    @ntimo:

    Because I will add my main account and remove the test account when 1Password 6 for Windows is out of beta ;)

    Well, we're getting fairly close to a stable build. Be sure to let us know any issues you have right now, because if we don't know about them, do not expect them to be fixed in the first stable update.

    @jwensley2:

    Do you have a list of features that are planned to be done for the release, there are obviously some major features still missing.

    What's in the current beta is what's going to make the cut, anything else is not confirmed and will be added after the release.

    The extensions will remain limited to Login filling for the moment. Documents, custom fields and sections, and other features are likely to be added after the first stable build.

    Support for local vaults will be later this year.

    Be sure to let us know what issues you have or what's missing that you want to see sooner.

  • @MikeT I think this would be bad and make many people really sad to realese 1Password 6 without proper browser saving features.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @ntimo,

    I understand and we're trying to make it happen sooner. However, this won't be available for everyone, only the 1Password Families/Teams customers who does not have a stable version of 1Password on Windows at all.

  • @MikeT I know that it will only be available to teams/family users. But will it be available for them in the first release version?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited July 2016

    Hi @ntimo,

    All features goes into beta testing first, thus, it would be available in current Beta builds long before it is available to everyone on the stable update channel. There are not going to be any surprises on the last day just for active Families/Teams users that beta testers didn't see first.

    The purpose of the stable update is to ensure the app has been tested and is safe to use for production purpose. It does not mean all features will be available.

  • jwensley2jwensley2
    edited July 2016

    I'm sure you guys know this already but your Windows support is extremely disappointing.

    I use both a local vault for my personal stuff and a teams account for work, this means I need to run two versions of 1Password for the foreseeable future and can only use one of them in browser.

    Not releasing with proper browser support in the new version is also very disappointing.

    I hope once you finally finish a proper V6 release you stop neglecting windows like you have for years.

  • One more comment, you haven't announced pricing yet, but it seems like you have may plans to make Windows users pay for an upgrade again.

    When I originally bought 1Password I bought the Mac + Windows bundle, and then paid for an upgrade I think when 1PW4 for Mac came out. Now Mac is on v6 and hasn't had a paid upgrade since, I don't see how you can expect Windows users to pay again for a product you have neglected for years.

    This may not even apply to me since my teams licence from work should cover me, but I still feel it's BS to ask Windows users to pay for something Mac have been getting for free.

    I was thinking of getting myself a personal teams account, but now I'm not sure, I can't say I trust you to not screw up Windows support again. It seems like you are going down the same path.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @jwensley2: We don't have expectations of selling 1Password for Windows version 6 at this time. It's included along with the other 1Password apps as part of a 1Password Teams/Families subscription. If and when we sell a licensed version, it will really need full local (non-1Password Teams/Families) support. We'll let the horse go before the cart. ;)

    I'm sorry that you feel you're being neglected as a Windows user. But I think it bears mentioning that we've built a new app from the ground up for you (and everyone else) this year and are improving it rapidly. I think this demonstrates our commitment both now and going forward (otherwise, we could try to tack something onto version 4), but it's up to you to decide that for yourself as we continue to demonstrate this over time.

    If and when there's a paid license upgrade for 1Password for Windows, it will either be substantial enough that you'll appreciate the work we've put into it and feel like it's worthy of your hard-earned money, or if you feel it doesn't offer you anything over and above the previous version you can stick with that. Your existing license will never expire. It's our job to make the next version appealing enough to justify charging for it. I think that's fair. :)

  • pbryanwpbryanw Junior Member
    edited July 2016

    In regards to the August release date, I hope I'm not alone in wanting you to take extra time if needed, even if that means an end of August date, if it means we end up with a more polished, and feature rich, stable Windows release build. :+1:

    Also, I'm hoping rich icons and general UI polish, will make it for the stable release, as I think the app will look a lot more complete once things like rich icons are added :+1:

  • Just to highlight important thing - 6.0 release does not mean the end of development ;) Once 6.0 is out to stable channel, 6.1 is starting immediately in beta channel.

  • As someone who's been using 1Password for what feels like years now across Mac, PC & iOS platforms, Windows support for 1Password Families / Teams on Windows (eg v6) is exceptionally disappointing. While the client app is continually improving it seems that browser extension support is sorely lacking. With the Mac versions being full featured and complete in terms of being able to generate passwords & save logins within the browser, Windows seems to be very much like the poor relation left in the corner.

    If it wasn't for wanting to continue using 1P Families across Mac & iOS I'd have ditched the subscription and either reverted to the older versions via Dropbox sync or explored other options. Your product description over on https://1password.com/families/ makes no mention of the massive lack of features on Windows and I can't imagine I'm the only customer to have signed up, evaluating the app on a Mac to go and install the Windows version with an expectation that MAJOR features might be complete. Sure, given the Beta label you expect some rough edges and perhaps stuff to be missing but not being able to save a new login from the browser seems like a massive oversight.

    Please can you offer up some assurances that this & other missing features are going to be added? Either before v6 hits release or pretty swiftly afterwards?

  • @TimS_2016 while I can't make any statements about specific dates, I can assure you that login saving (and that includes password generation) is going to be added swiftly afterwards. They are first on the list for 6.1.

    I appreciate you telling us truth about your disappointment. We want to deliver all the great and desired features to Windows, just like it works for Mac & iOS users. At the same time we don't want to make larger disappointment by releasing more features with too many edge cases.

    For example, we do have code that can add/edit items in folder based vaults, and it should work (or as a programmer I must say famous "it works on my machine" :) ), but there is no reliable upload code yet. We are facing the choice - enable that desired feature today and gamble on your data or postpone it, ensure we have proper backups, conflict resolution and validations first. At the same time 1Password Accounts have the luxury of items history, should anything go wrong, you will always be able revert to your previous data. Our choice is to release smaller, but better pieces. And to keep adding on top of that.

  • Hi @SergeyTheAgile, thanks for taking the time to reply. Great to hear these things are all on the plans - will look forwards to 6.1 :)
    It's just a shame there's such a gap between the current Mac & Windows clients.. especially coming from a background with great feature parity across the platforms it just seems to be such a departure from previous versions.

    With my tech hat on however, I also fully appreciate the challenges that come along with reinventing the product set... good luck with it!

  • Thanks @TimS_2016 :) It's worth mention that we have rebuilt 1Password 6 for Windows, it's not built on top of 1Password 4 for Windows. As you can imagine we have to support lots of data formats variations that happened over years in both Mac and Windows apps. The good news is that this work is shared between Desktop Windows app and Universal Windows app (the one that comes from Windows 10 Store).

  • pbryanwpbryanw Junior Member
    edited July 2016

    @SergeyTheAgile - Thanks for clarifying the release schedule. I'm glad you're moving to having major incremental updates like other 1Password apps do. There's just something more satisfying to seeing noticeable changes in an app when you do an update, compared to the 1Password 4 model of lots of minor changes.

    Also, I recall that 1Password for Android was released in a similarly feature-incomplete state, and I've seen that go from strength-to-strength with its subsequent updates - I'm hoping 1Password 6 for Windows will do the same :+1:

  • Including @dteare because we haven't seen him around these parts in a while.

    I appreciate how hard you folks are working on 1Password 6 but I'm disappointed that you are planning to declare it "release" with a feature set and performance characteristics in the ballpark of the current beta. While you may get blogs posts and a perceived ability to market your Teams suite as having a Windows solution, it will be mis-representative to claim that you actually have a legitimate Windows app for Teams.

    Here's what's missing for me:

    • Performance. From the time I enter my password at the lock screen to the time the UX becomes responsive takes about 20 seconds. During that time, the list of items is displayed and can be clicked, but the details view doesn't change. This is with an OPVault/DropBox based vault with hundreds of items. Sergey has suggested in the past that this is probably because of the app's threading model. Perhaps I wouldn't have this problem if I moved to a Team vault, but I can't move to a Team vault until the Windows app has parity with 1Password 4.
    • Attachments. They exist and we use them. I can't just stop using them and I can't switch to a version of the desktop app that can't get at them. I'm ok with mobile apps not getting at them...I use them for cert / license files and things like that.
    • Custom fields and sections. Same deal. Remember that the only audience that 1Password 6 is actually targeted at is the Teams audience.
    • Filling of credit card and OTP fields.

    The reality here is that there is a circular dependency. Moving to Teams requires a Windows version of 1Password 6. Moving to the Windows version of 1Password 6 requires feature completeness.

    I play around with the beta in order to give feedback and report bugs - and I've done that because I'm an enthusiast and a fan of you guys and your company. I can't use the beta to do anything other than look at stuff, though, because you don't support writing to my local vault and I'd be nuts to switch to a cloud vault given the state of the beta. See the problem?

    I have been evaluating other products in the category and am debating a move. Moving would represent a significant tradeoff - specifically around customized sections and fields, which is a significant advantage of 1Password over the competition. On the upside, though, the Windows versions are clearly as much of a priority as other platforms versions and the mobile apps have better form filling. I'm asking myself why I'm saying this in this post. I don't want to be saying it if it isn't mean constructively. The answer is that I want to share with you that a guy like me who is a long-term user, has been paying for Teams since it was purchasable (to support you) but can't put any data in it, and who is an influencer of others' purchase decisions has been actively evaluating alternatives. I doubt I'm alone in this. Personally, I think you're better off getting to a state of parity with 1Password 4 before slapping the Version 6 label on the beta. It's disingenuous to do anything but that at this time.

  • @zendnez thanks for you feedback, I agree that 1Password 6 is not there yet to replace 1Password 4 on Windows. Yet. We are working on it.

    I must confess and agree, performance that you can see today is not nearly good. But, there are improvements made and they are waiting for the next update. Let's do this, I'll go and pack next update and you tell us if you feel the difference ;)

  • Thanks, @SergeyTheAgile. I'm looking forward to trying the perf improvements.

  • It took some time to pack and deploy, but now it should be out. Please let us know how it feels. I'll go prepare for the next update meanwhile ;)

  • I really can't see myself switching to v6 until local editing is working and there is a proper browser extension, the v4 extension is bad, but the v6 extension is almost worthless.

    The current beta is basically a toy, it likely won't be usable for any existing Windows user's since we will all be using local vaults, and I would imagine a lot of people using teams will be using other platforms and be very disappointed with the low quality of this release.

    I think for myself at least v6 could be usable if it the browser extension had full read capability and a search, and if using it and v4 at the same time worked properly, then I could use v4 to create/edit logins and v6 for the extension and my teams account.

  • zendnezzendnez
    edited July 2016

    I tried it. I'm currently on a very fast machine - it's a Core i7 6700 4GHz box with 16 gigs of DDR4 3MHz RAM and a fast SSD (a Samsung 950 Pro). Doesn't get much faster.

    Prior to this build, I would enter my password and it would take between 18 and 19 seconds before I could navigate to a new item and see its contents update.

    The behavior is different now. Now, when I click on a new item, the title of the new item instantly appears but the body of the item doesn't change (so I'm seeing the body of the item that was initially selected). About 16.5 seconds later, the bodies start updating when a new item is clicked.

    So here's the question...do you just have a bug that's causing titles but not bodies to be updated during those initial seconds? Be nice if that's the case.

    While I do appreciate the effort on performance, and hope it's a fixable thing, feature parity is the real issue I wanted to comment on.

    AgileBits is really lucky to have you, Sergey. Seriously.

    [Update] : I can't get the behavior I described above to reproduce anymore. The detail view now remains the default 1Password logo until the 16+ seconds of initial load complete. So if there's an improvement from previous betas, it's really not very substantial. Sorry. :(

  • @jwensley2 browser integration is definitely next area to improve, I can't promise all in one shot, but step by step. You might notice more changes in it with next update or two.

    Local vault support is coming, but it's later than you want it. I can promise that we will do everything possible to get it ready sooner than later.

  • SergeyTheAgileSergeyTheAgile

    Team Member
    edited July 2016

    @zendnez the performance was improved in item loading, grouping and rendering, but the issue you describe is slightly different - it relates to sync holding everything else. There are few more places i need to revisit and improve to get performance better for you. I find delays more than 2-3 sec unacceptable in scenario you have described. I'll fix it.

    Feature parity is important for us as well, there is one major change coming next. Once it's out, I'll get time to improve that initial opening performance.

    Thank you for your feedback, we really listen to it and your voices are helping us to choose what to get done next :)

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member

    Hi @zendnez! I just wanted to pop in and wave hello since you mentioned me :)

    Sergey and his team have been doing a great job moving our Windows support forward, but you're right, we have a ways to go. I agree with you that we won't be able to take the beta label off tomorrow (August 1st). Thankfully we don't need to as I said we'd be launching in August so we really have an extra 31 days before that deadline passes ;)

    In all seriousness, I believe we can indeed launch in August and Sergey and his team believe we can, too. It will be close, however, as there's certainly a lot left to do. As much as I'd love to ship as soon as we can, we won't be shipping until we're ready, even if I end up needing to eat some humble pie. But I think we can make it. We won't have every feature and we certainly won't have time to add syncing with AgileKeychain or OPVault, but the features we do ship with will be solid.

    By the way, this post is why you haven't seen me around here for a while. I've been buried under email ever since! Thankfully we've found some amazing new team members, including many that love Windows, so it's been worth it :)

    Thanks again for being awesome and helping us beta test 1Password! <3

This discussion has been closed.