1Password updater detects additional copy of 1Password in my Time Machine backup

It seems like 1Password should not be finding copies of itself in Time Machine backups? Least of all, shouldn't be suggesting that I delete these backup copies?


1Password Version: 7.6Beta-3
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.15.5
Sync Type: Dropbox

Comments

  • vplewisvplewis Junior Member

    @ Chris Messina FYI, 1Password is suggesting you delete the 1Password APP, not your 1Password data, which is stored separately. It has to do with the way launchd sometimes refuses to release cache data. If you delete it here, you can always re-download if you need to.

    On a related note: On macOS Big Sur 11.0, when I clicked the Cancel button, Quit the updater and 1Password, ejected all the other HDDs, and relaunched the updater, it still found the now-ejected backup disk. Don't rightly know whose bug this is, but it could be cache related as well. HTH

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @Chris Messina,

    Unfortunately, if we can find it there, then so can the system process(launchd) that launches our helper application. This is less fatal than it was with 1Password 6, which prevented all access to your 1Password data if the wrong copy of mini was launched. The worst case scenario you will encounter with 1Password 7 is an inability for any of the browser extensions to function, but your data will still be accessible.

  • @rudy I just encountered the same problem while trying to update 1Password. It detected two copies: one in Applications, one in my Time Machine backup.

    Clearly, I do not want to touch the Time Machine backup, and only update the copy in Applications.

    The message in this dialogue is far from clear; in fact, it is very confusing. How do I proceed to update Applications/1Password and leave TimeMachine/Applications/1Password untouched?

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @garyhooper,

    If the copy you launched is on your boot drive then it will update that copy, you will however want to disconnect the time machine drive or otherwise not backup the 1Password.app on your boot drive to the time machine drive as the OS will not deterministically launch the correct 1Password Extension Helper/1Password 7.app when logging in. launchd and LaunchServices unfortunately choose which one to launch in a way that doesn't ensure that its always the one from your /Applications folder.

  • @rudy, the message in the dialogue should be changed to indicate this, as it is telling me to delete my copy in Time Machine. Further, 1Password is the only app that I've seen exhibit this problem; other apps can update and relaunch just fine even though there is a copy in an actively connected Time Machine drive.

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @garyhooper,

    The dialog has the correct wording, it is designed to prevent the previously described situation that is out of our control to resolve. 1Password is not like most applications in that it makes use of very specific inter-process communication mechanisms to support its extension interfaces. It is also sandboxed and has the hardened runtime enabled which requires following specific rules for those communication pathways.

  • @rudy, I am very confused by the dialogue box...please don't tell me I'm not.

    The dialogue is telling me to move my Time Machine backup of 1Password to the Trash. Is this really what you want me to do? And what does Update Anyway mean? Update the /Applications version, or the Time Machine version, or both?

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    @garyhooper:

    The dialogue is telling me to move my Time Machine backup of 1Password to the Trash. Is this really what you want me to do?

    What you have on your backup drive is not a backup of 1Password. It's a copy of the 1Password app, your data resides somewhere else on your system. A copy of the app is not useful, since it's just the app itself, which you can always download again from our website.

    And what does Update Anyway mean? Update the /Applications version, or the Time Machine version, or both?

    If you ignore the suggestion of moving duplicate copies of 1Password to the trash, you have the option to force an update of the 1Password app on your machine. We don't recommend this (that's why we show you the suggestion in the first place), but you are free to do it anyway if you are sure that's what you want.

  • @ag_ana I know that Time Machine maintains a copy of the app and not its data. I am saying that the messaging in the dialogue is confusing. If I don't delete the copy, I do not understand what will happen in terms of updates. Which copy is updated? One or both? This is unclear.

    You should not be recommending to delete something from a Time Machine backup, even a backup copy of the app. If I remove 1Password from TM and use the TM to restore to another machine, the backup is no longer a full backup; I would need to install 1Password separately.

    Why not fix the message to make it clear? If you can't otherwise solve the problem, you could state something like: "If one of these copies is on TM backup, we suggest that you eject the drive before updating". Or, "if you proceed, we will ignore this duplicate copy and only update the main copy".

    At this point, if I click Update Anyway, what happens to each of the two copies?

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member
    edited July 2020

    @garyhooper:

    Thank you for the feedback!

    At this point, if I click Update Anyway, what happens to each of the two copies?

    The updater will update the copy of 1Password app that is currently running, whichever that is. During this process launchd may get confused (particularly if the copy of the app that is in the backup is the one that is running) and launch the wrong 1Password Extension Helper post-update. This can lead to launchd launching the wrong copy of 1Password the next time you reboot or login to your machine. In such cases it may prevent 1Password from working in your browser (see here for more information).

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I've updated Ana's above post slightly with some additional information from our development team. What I would recommend here is excluding the 1Password app itself from your backups. If you'd like to backup the app for some reason, you can make a zip of it and back up the zip. As was noted above the application is separate from your data. Excluding the app does not exclude your data.

    At this time we are not planning on changing the wording of the message, but we'll continue to monitor the situation and keep an eye out for feedback on this.

    I hope that helps!

    Ben

  • Just to add that I'm having the same problem - 1password says that the 2 copies it finds on a Time Machine drive are "extra copies".

    You need not update the wording of the message, but you could not warn about copies found in Time Machine drives (note the logo in the screenshot below) - Users shouldn't have to work around a broken updater by excluding individual apps.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    To be clear: It isn't the updater itself that misbehaves. It is launchd, which is not part of 1Password. It is part of the OS. The 1Password app should be excluded from Time Machine backups to avoid this difficulty. I apologize for the inconvenience.

    Ben

  • Chris MessinaChris Messina Member
    edited July 2020

    I see. Do I need to do more than check this button (it's already checked and I'm still getting these warnings)?

    Edit: I realize I can just drag 1Password into the list of exclusions to avoid this situation.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I realize I can just drag 1Password into the list of exclusions to avoid this situation.

    Yep, that's exactly it. You actually don't have to have the 'exclude system files...' box checked, at least not for 1Password's benefit.

    Ben

  • r8ders2kr8ders2k Junior Member
    edited July 2020

    @Ben Thanks. I just excluded my 1PW apps (iMac and Mac mini) from my Time Machine's Preferences.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    :+1::)

    Ben

  • AgileFolk,

    I am also experiencing the above problem. The thing is, while what you say makes sense, I'm an advanced 1P user and support consultant of 1P for a couple of decades now and this is a brand new problem with 1P Mac v7.7 BETA-4 (70700004). While I've seen the message in years past, it wasn't for the copy of 1P that was on my Time Machine drive. This is a brand new issue with this beta version.

    • Tony
  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hey @TonyDennis

    I understand the symptoms may have only started to appear now, but this has been a situation for quite some time. There are two ways, off-hand, to avoid this popping up:

    1. Exclude the 1Password app from Time Machine (recommended)
    2. Configure Time Machine in such a way that it backs up to a SparseBundle (e.g. by backing up to a NAS)

    I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I hope that helps!

    Ben

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