First 1Password beta of 2️⃣0️⃣2️⃣2️⃣ 🎉

dteare

Welcome to our first beta of 2022! 🙌

All signs point to 2022 being an incredible year and we’re kicking things off with our very first beta, #80500079.

By popular demand you can now add your 2FA secrets to an item by scanning QR codes from within the main app, in addition to saving QRCodes in your browser. Add a one-time password and then click the QR code icon to scan an image anywhere on your screen or from your clipboard.

While scrolling through item lists you’ll now find the number of entries being shown included at the end of the list.

And Quick Access now always remembers your selected account or collection, including across application restarts.

You can find a full set of changes in our release notes for macOS , Windows , and Linux. Or, select the What’s New item from the feedback menu within the app.

As always, thank you so much for participating in the early access release and helping us to improve 1Password. We couldn't have gotten this far without you and the releases are so much better as a direct result of you. Thank you! 🙏🏻🤗

++dave;
1Password Founder

viswiz

Thank you @dteare for bringing back QR scanner into the main app. But please rethink the current implementation of entries count.
Why do I have to scroll to the end of the list in order to see the count? Even if I don't have to scroll in case of shorter lists the count jumps up and down while switching categories. The counter has to stay in the same position and the standard way is a status area/bar.
Really all implementations I know of place such kind of status information in a static area below or next to the items that are counted. Even your first beta implementation used a static counter area below the list. Having to scroll in order to get that information is neither standard nor practical.

dteare

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, @viswiz. Glad to hear you’re enjoying the return of the in-app QR Code scanner.

Item counts is an interesting story. A status bar would be nice in many ways but has its own drawbacks as well. Having the count at the bottom of the list entries themselves felt very natural to me and has the additional benefit of preserving the vertical space so more of your data can be seen. You’re right that it’s less helpful in long lists and we have some plans for providing an alternative way to find this information. Hopefully I can share more (and a screenshot) in the near future.

Thanks again for reaching out. Take care,

++dave;
1Password Founder

viswiz

@dteare I am really surprised by your answer. All the applications I use regularly on macOS and Windows that use any kind of item counting use static displays outside the list. None of them include the count in the list, as that would make the display invisible most of the time. So why reinvent something that already exists? I agree that it needs additional screen space but why not just add "Show/Hide item counts" to something like a view menu like most other applications do?
I'm really curious about the alternative way you are mentioning.

Thanks!

cyberskier

I'll second this, please. Seems odd to have to scroll through, in some cases, a thousand items to see the item count. This is compounded by the inefficient location of categories in the dropdown menu instead of the sidebar.

gfio

I do like the new beta. However, I have a general comment on 1Password 8.
In 1P 7 it was possible to set how frequently the Master Password is prompted in place of TouchID. I think it was a clever way to force you to remember your password. Now this interval is set to a fixed 14 days, which is enough for one to forget the password, especially if it's complex as it should be.

I think it would be great to reintroduce the possibility for the user to set his own desired interval.

dteare

@viswiz: I'm sorry for being light on specifics. I didn't want to share mockups or dive too deep into something we're still toying with as it's likely to change once we start using it first hand. Long story short, we're not done yet. 🙂

@gfio: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the frequency of the password prompt. I can see where you're coming from, especially so after the holidays. I'm always incredibly slow to type my account password after returning from vacation, so I agree that 14 days is enough time to forget. For me personally though I switch devices so often that what I'd really like here is for this setting to be controlled at the account level. That way if my iPad prompted my for my password recently then my Mac & PC wouldn't until a time when I haven't entered my password anywhere else for a long time. I could definitely see this being configurable either way.

Ben

For me personally though I switch devices so often that what I'd really like here is for this setting to be controlled at the account level

😍

Ben

OAW

I must say I agree with @viswiz. The previous beta implemented Item Counts as expected. At the bottom of the window and not at the bottom of the list. Then inexplicably it was moved to a demonstrably less useful location requiring lots of scrolling to see information that should be visible at a glance.

volts

While scrolling to look at the Item Count, I noticed a few things -

• Page Up and Page Down no longer work.

• Scrolling is much slower than in 1P7. The scroll thumb lags behind the pointer as the list loads. 1P7 is instant.

• Scroll position is kept when changing Vaults.

  • But not in a useful way. I suspect that the scroll position isn't being reset when switching Vaults.
  • When viewing the 10th page of items in Vault A, clicking Vault B goes to the 10th page. But if Vault B only has 6 pages, it goes to the maximum 6th page. If you scroll up to page 5 in Vault B, clicking back to Vault A now goes to the 5th page.
  • I noticed this while looking at the Item Count, because it is necessary to scroll to the bottom again when switching to a larger Vault, but not when switching to a smaller Vault.
  • In practice this feels random and disorienting. I have no sense of where I will be when switching Vaults.
  • No Item is selected when switching between Vaults.
  • If you Tab to the Item list after switching Vaults, the list is scrolled to the top and the first item is selected.

• The scroll thumb doesn't update size and position immediately when changing Vaults. It updates when pointing to the list of items. This is most visible when going between large and smaller Vaults.

viswiz

@OAW I don't understand why AgileBits have to reinvent something for which there are established standard solutions, i. e. static information like counts are presented next to the scrollable list and not within. It's a well known and widerly accepted UI pattern. The time spent on reinventing an item count could have better been spent on fixing the broken search, the missing categories in the side panel or even the fake macOS dialogs with the totally out of place 'X'.

Ben

I don't understand why AgileBits have to reinvent something for which there are established standard solutions

Can't bake a cake without breaking a few eggs. :+1: 1Password 8 is a complete rewrite and we're taking the opportunity to challenge existing assumptions.

Ben

viswiz

@ben sometimes you have to break something in order to create something new but an item count isn‘t rocket science. It’s only purpose is to provide information - easily available all the time. Hiding an item count in a scrollable list is the complete opposite like someone trying to reinvent the wheel using a rectangular shape just to be different.

Ben

@volts

Page Up and Page Down no longer work.

Good catch. I'll file an issue for the team to look into that.

ref: dev/core/core#11481

Scrolling is much slower than in 1P7. The scroll thumb lags behind the pointer as the list loads. 1P7 is instant.

I'm not seeing any slowness in scrolling with 1Password 8. In fact for me it is scrolling incredibly quickly and smoothly, despite having thousands of items. I recorded a quick video to show my experience, which you can view here: https://bucket.agilebits.com/ben/20220119b4GUhdif.mp4
Are you seeing otherwise? If so would it be possible to record a video? It might also help to know the specs of your computer. It is possible we're doing better on some hardware than other in this regard. Thanks!

Scroll position is kept when changing Vaults.

I agree... this feels a bit odd. I'll check to see what the intention is here.

ref: dev/core/core#12303

The scroll thumb doesn't update size and position immediately when changing Vaults. It updates when pointing to the list of items. This is most visible when going between large and smaller Vaults.

Yep. Another good catch. :+1: I've let the team know about this one as well. Thank you!

ref: dev/core/core#12305

Ben

Ben

@viswiz

We're trying to find a balance between making the information available to those who really want/need it, and those who will never care how many items are in any given list. I don't know that we've struck that balance yet. We're still looking into it. :+1:

Ben

viswiz

@ben typically you would just add an option to show/hide this information into a view menu. Pretty much every application on any OS does it this way if additional/optional should be shown or not.

Ben

We're trying to avoid having a multitude of preferences. They add complexity, both for customers to wade through, and for maintaining the app. Instead, the app should do what is best for most people most of the time. That's the goal anyway; sometimes preferences are unavoidable. I don't think that is the case here.

Ben

viswiz

@ben Although I had something like Finder‘s view menu ‚show/hide statusbar‘ in mind instead of an option in the preferences dialog/window in the end this information has to be stored somewhere. So basically it‘s just another kind of preferences.
I agree with you that the number of preferences should be limited. But how do you decide what is best for most people? AgileBits as a security and privacy focused company is hopefully not using telemetry data within 1Password.
Sorry if I might get slightly off topic again…

Kai

Ben

@viswiz

Although I had something like Finder‘s view menu ‚show/hide statusbar‘ in mind instead of an option in the preferences dialog/window in the end this information has to be stored somewhere. So basically it‘s just another kind of preferences.

Yep; exactly.

I agree with you that the number of preferences should be limited. But how do you decide what is best for most people? AgileBits as a security and privacy focused company is hopefully not using telemetry data within 1Password.

There are a number of different ways we gather that sort of feedback: through customer interactions like this one, user research, surveys, monitoring social media, reaching out to our business customers, our own experiences, etc.

Ben

Tertius3

Just recently, I discovered there is again an item count. But it is well hidden at the end of each list, which is probably the most inconvenient and unintuitive location ever. I rather expect an item count next to the each container where the items are located, directly in view permanently. That means a number like "(123)" at the left column, next to "all objects", "favorites", and next to each tag, so you have an immediate overview about each category how big that category is. There is plenty of space at the right end of the left column for that number. Having to select a category, then scroll to the bottom of the list is extremely inconvenient just to get the information how many entries are there.

Apropos category: I don't speak of the built in categories, which is only some kind of filter. I speak of the real containers at the leftmost column.

---

1Password Version: 80500099, im Kanal „NIGHTLY“
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10

viswiz

@Tertius3 I‘ve asked the same question here. The answer doesn’t sound like they are going to change it any time soon. For whatever reason AgileBits seems to prefer to reinvent solutions for problems already solved by widely accepted standards.

OAW

Indeed. Item Counts were originally at the bottom of the window as expected in an earlier beta so it was always visible. And then for some strange and unknown reason they moved it to the bottom of the list where you have to scroll to the bottom to see it. Just the latest in a series of unfortunate UI decisions that AgileBits seems not inclined to address.

Ben

I‘ve asked the same question here.

Merged. :)

I can't comment on the timeline, but I can say we're looking at adding this information in another spot to make it more available. Beyond that to avoid having another thread on the same subject let's continue anything further in the above linked thread. :)

Apropos category: I don't speak of the built in categories, which is only some kind of filter. I speak of the real containers at the leftmost column.

That's an interesting point. Could you please help me understand how it is important to know the number of items that have a certain tag? And why this information needs to be highly visible, vs accessible when needed?

I think one of the challenges here is we're having trouble understanding the use case. The primary concern I've heard of is being able to see these numbers at a glance to check for sync issues. That's valid, but ideally there would be a better way to indicate sync issues, such as a dedicated connection monitor that could tell you when accounts haven't synced recently and why/how to fix that. We have some designs around that idea too, and I'm hoping that is a direction we'll take.

Ben

viswiz

In my case the item count is a kind of reminder to clean up. I'm a software developer and part of my work is setting up VMs, test systems and joining forums :) . All of them require accounts and often additional data like attachments, a router or server config. I tend to put all of them into a single vault. The item count reminds me when it's time to clean up and what category is affected most, i. e. removing obsolete items, grouping some of them into a different vault...
It's a bit like working for years on your source code until it gets to messy. So you start to clean up, refactor, rebuild. One thing that helps to find the worst parts are code metrics. One could call them the software developer's item count ;)

Ben

Gotcha! Thanks for expanding on that @viswiz. It still seems that though the information is valuable to have available, it wouldn't need to be "in your face" constantly when using the app? It sounds like something that would be checked on periodically, vs something that needs to be front and center.

I don't keep trash bags on my desk as a constant reminder that there is trash in the house. I don't take the trash out every day. I take it out once per week on pickup day. I go get the bags out of the cupboard once per week when I need them.

Maybe that's a terrible analogy; I'm not sure. 😅 Either way, I'm still a bit unclear on the importance of having this information in a prominent spot in the UI, vs in a spot that is reachable when it is needed.

Ben

viswiz

I would prefer to have it visible all the time but this might be because I have an 27“ monitor so space is not a problem. On smaller screens it might become a problem. Furthermore having it visible all the time works similar to gauge… time to cleanup… really time to do something… do it now😁
Trash typically has some kind of automatic warning system… it starts to smell if not taken out for to long☺️

Tertius3

Could you please help me understand how it is important to know the number of items that have a certain tag? And why this information needs to be highly visible, vs accessible when needed?

It helps me getting and keeping the big picture while organizing all of my entries. I ignore the built in categories, instead I tagged all my entries in a hierarchical manner:

Having an item count will show me unbalanced (too many or only 1 or 2) entries per tag. It will also help me to show where I just added or removed an entry, especially useful if I added the wrong tag and the item gets lost within some unknown tag. "Organizing all of my entries" is always the case when I have the desktop app open as in the screenshot. I'm doing this only if I'm organizing. The other case is using the data, which takes place either in the browser extension or with Quick Access.

I understand you just don't want to display irrelevant information. For me, it's relevant. If it's missing, I start clicking through every tag and see if I can merge that tag with some other tag or if I should split that tag into multiple tags.

volts

for me it is scrolling incredibly quickly and smoothly

I agree, that looks pretty good ... on your M1 supercomputer. :p But I think some of the effect is still visible. Are you trackpad-scrolling? It's more noticeable when dragging the scroll thumb.

It's most noticeable in person; it's harder to feel the latency in the video. There is a significant difference between versions.

https://file.io/WJJ0YSvK92gW

1P7 scrolling is perfect. It's fast and smooth.

1P8 scrolling isn't. The list doesn't "scroll", it goes blank and then items "load in".

Changing the "Hardware Acceleration" setting doesn't make a difference. I also started a few CPU-intensive tasks in the background, and interestingly, that doesn't make it any worse.

This is on a 2015 MacBook Pro. It's not the latest and greatest, but it's still capable of scrolling. :)

This shows a different scrolling glitch -

https://file.io/6j7HcWGkBFmb

Each time a vault is selected, when scrolling by dragging the thumb, the thumb runs away from the pointer. It gets to the bottom before the pointer does. It then behaves correctly until the Vault is selected again.

I wonder if this is related to height calculation, and if it's an interaction with the Item Count being appended to the list of items.

Goldgamer

What about login into my account with an QR code? Can this features please be bring back.
Thanks!

Jack.P_1P

Hi @Goldgamer:

Thanks for your feedback! Just to confirm, adding an account using your Emergency Kit is currently possible:

You can either import the PDF of your Emergency Kit, or use a camera on your device to scan it. Let me know if that helps or if you're still running into trouble!

Jack

volts

The latest beta has restored Page Up and Page Down (yay!) but now they're broken in a new way (boo, hiss).

Using Page Up and Page Down now changes the selected item!

Page Up and Page Down should not change the selected item in lists. It should only move the viewport. Compare with Finder, or Contacts, or Reminders, etc.

In some apps, Page Up and Down do move the cursor when in text editing fields, but that doesn't include 1Password. When editing a large note in 1Password8, Page Up and Down (correctly) don't move the cursor position.

I'm sure I must be very annoying.