Duplicate entries after manually copying data file
I have two Macs, both running OSX 10.8.3 and 1Pwd 3.9.6. I generally try to keep the two in sync manually (no, I don't want to sync via Dropbox), but did a lot of editing on tags yesterday and so decided to just copy the .keychain file from one (computer A) to the other (computer B).
I copied the file from the standard location to the standard location (Container\AgileBits\blahblah), and when I opened it on computer B (via opening 1Pwd itself, not double-clicking the file), the data appeared to be the same, i.e. same counts in each type (login, account, etc.), in each tag, and so forth.
However, a few seconds later, I suddenly had an extra 30 logins, i.e. my Login count went from X to X+30. The extra logins were all duplicates of existing logins, but they appeared to be older duplicates; in some cases, from before I added the tags during the most recent editing session on computer A.
I closed 1Pwd on both computers, and also closed the helper on both computers, thinking that perhaps it was causing a problem on one or the other of the computers. I then re-copied the file from computer A to B, and re-opened 1Password on computer B.
Again, it looked fine when first opened, but a few seconds later (no more than five), the same 30 additional login entries showed up.
I tried one more time, after checking Activity Monitor to ensure nothing related to 1Password or AgileBits was running (nothing was), and when the same thing happened again, I gave up and just deleted the duplicate entries from Computer B.
My question is, what could be causing the problem? I used the AgileBits instructions for copying from Mac to Windows, I just happened to have two Macs. I copied it to the standard location and standard filename, i.e. the default one used by 1Pwd, and the one indicated in General Preferences.
Thanks!
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1Password isn't designed to have the data file "pulled out from underneath it". I'm wondering if data is syncing back from the sandboxed browser extension(s). To help us track down the issue more quickly, could you please send us a Diagnostics Report?
Download the 1Password Troubleshooting utility and follow the instructions to generate the report.
Then attach the entire file to an email to us: support@ agilebits .com
Please do not post your Diagnostics Report in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report in our inbox.
Once we see the report we should be able to better assist you. Thanks in advance!
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This item from your KB, which I read before doing the copy, would indicate otherwise. Is this item incorrect? I'm not copying between Windows and Mac, I'm copying between Mac and Mac, but it's the same thing.
http://support.agilebits.com/kb/syncing/how-to-move-your-1password-data-file-between-pc-and-macAlso, as I indicated, I shut down the 1Password Helper on both Mac's before doing the copy, so the extensions were no longer active. I would have thought that shutting down the helper ensures that any outstanding changes are written to the main data file, is that not correct?
I have the report and will be glad to look for whatever you want me to look for, but I'm not going to send it anywhere. You have far too much information in there for me to send it.
Thanks!
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If you shut down the Helper that could be part of the problem. The Helper is what manages communication between the sandboxed browser extensions and the data file. If you swap data files while the Helper isn't running there may be data that gets synced back from the extension once it restarts.
Diagnostics Reports contain no personally identifying information. What, specifically, are you concerned about? It's just log entries from 1Password. We can probably resolve things very quickly by just looking at the report, but without seeing it it's pretty much impossible to say which part will give us the clue we need to help you. If you don't want to email us the report, that's completely your prerogative, but our assistance will then be a bit like performing heart surgery with our feet. It will take a long time, won't be as accurate, and might end up making you less happy in the long run.
Please let me know how you'd like to proceed.
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It would be helpful if you would read my original post. I outlined the exact steps I took, in the exact order, to help you (I understand the difficulty of tech support without a sufficient description of what happened) and to prevent this kind of unnecessary back and forth.
To recap: the Helper was open the first time. It wasn't open the second time. That means it happened with the Helper being open and with the Helper being closed.
And I'll ask again, since you didn't answer the question — doesn't the Helper sync it's data with the main datafile when it closes? If not, then how does the main file gets sync'd?
Since you know who the file is from, EVERYTHING is personally identifiable. And of course it isn't just log entries from iPassword — the TOC is 47 entries long. If you just want the contents of the 1Password.log file, then I'll be glad to send it. But if that's all you want, then ask for it instead of pointing to an app that creates a document with 46 other things in it.
You're not a heart surgeon (and I assume you don't play one on TV), and it would be nothing like that. It would be like pretty much every other software/hardware company on the planet who do their tech support without a 238K document being mailed to them.
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To recap: the Helper was open the first time. It wasn't open the second time. That means it happened with the Helper being open and with the Helper being closed.
Apologies for missing this. Your post was very specific, and the specificity is appreciated. It was my mistake for missing that part in your original post.
And I'll ask again, since you didn't answer the question — doesn't the Helper sync it's data with the main datafile when it closes? If not, then how does the main file gets sync'd?
I'm not sure what you mean. When what closes? Do you mean when you terminate the Helper process? Closing/quitting the main 1Password application? Closing the extension in the browser?
We'll do our best to help, but the Diagnostics Reports make the process much easier for us and you. I have a feeling you will only get more frustrated with all the back and forth that could be eliminated by sending the report. It is up to you, though. Hopefully we can help without it. We also have no other reports of this, so it's almost impossible to narrow it down without a lot more data.
Have you tried clearing the cache? If not, please give that a go and let me know if it still happens. Select Help > Troubleshooting > Clear Cache from the menu bar in 1Password then try copying the data file again.
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I clicked on the Helper icon in the menu bar and chose "Quit". I'll admit, that wasn't exact, but it was specific. I didn't say I killed the Helper process, I did say separately I closed the main 1Pwd app (which means I couldn't have meant that when I said I closed the Helper), and I didn't say anything at all about the browser. The Helper is an app with an icon (the fact it can be hidden doesn't change the fact it has one) and a menu, and it has a Quit on its menu. Wouldn't the logical thing be to assume I did … the logical thing?
What I mean is, the main datafile has data, and the Helper has data. Your post above implies that the Helper has data that the main file doesn't know about. ("If you swap data files while the Helper isn't running there may be data that gets synced back from the extension once it restarts.") My assumption is something has to eventually ensure that the main datafile has ALL of the data. What is that? (Or those?)
My guess is that that at least one of those somethings is the Helper app being Quit — that's a logical point for the Helper to write all of its data to the main datafile. I would also guess that a second one of those somethings is the main 1Password app being Quit. (But, the question still is — what is the something(s) that ensures that the main datafile has everything in it from the Helper?)
In this case, both of those things were done, but I still had the problem. That would imply that, perhaps, the Helper had data it thought was more current than the data in the .keychain, and so it wrote it again after the file was replaced. So a further question might be: once the Helper has written its changes to the .keychain, what happens to the data in the Helper? Does it get purged, marked as having been written to the .keychain, what?
You're going to look for something in the report. Tell me what to look for and I'll look for it. If you want to look for five things, then tell me the five. I've done tech support (professionally) in my past. I work with tech support for various companies on a regular basis. I do tech support (informally, family/friends) on a semi-regular basis. This isn't hard. It's how the rest of the world does it.
Thanks for your help.
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The Helper process will sync the data from the browser extension and the main database as long as the IDs on both match. If they have different IDs it will refuse to sync them (this is for security purposes). If you switch keychains the database ID may be different from that of the extension database, and the Helper will recognize that. So, yes, as long as the IDs match it is the Helper that will do the syncing. You can check to see if the IDs match by generating the report Khad has been politely requesting you send us and Cmd+Fing for
database IDs do not match
The actual sync is performed when you open the extension in your browser. The 1Password application does not have to be running, but the Helper does. The sync is bi-directional so after a sync is performed both databases will have the same dataset. The data is not purged.
Without seeing the report, what I would suspect might be the problem here is the browser extensions. I'd ask that as a troubleshooting step you please uninstall and then reinstall the extensions for each web browser you have them installed in. Specific instructions can be found here:
http://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/11985/i-just-changed-my-master-password-but-my-browser-extension-doesnt-recognize-it-mac (ignore the title)
Then, please try again and see if you have improved results.We'd really appreciate it if you are still having difficulties if you'd help us help you by sending us the report (via email). You are of course welcome to review it before sending, and can even edit it if you must (obviously anything you edit out we won't have to work with, and are thus more likely to miss something). As you've likely seen the report contains background information about not just the logs that 1Password writes but also about system specifications, Dropbox status, web browser versions and settings of the 1Password extensions in those browsers, etc. There is a lot of information, yes, but it is valuable information in troubleshooting 1Password related problems. I wouldn't know exactly what I'd be looking for without having that background information.
Either way, if you'd like to continue troubleshooting this problem, please send us a note to support@ agilebits .com and include a link to this thread.
Thank you!
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