Big decision: 1P 8

Mark Sealey

Appreciating that everyone here is overworked and overtaxed by the new release (1P 8), deciding whether or not to stay with 1P is a big and important decision - for all us loyal users.

So may I ask for opinions, please… I have also spent hours reading around the subject and looked at virtually all the alternatives.

But I really like 1P, AB as a company and the level and friendly nature of the support I've always had in the many years during which I've been 99% happy with 1P.

If I upgrade to 1P 8, will I still have a truly 'local' vault… one **on my machine **over which I have control - to access it during an Internet outage, back it up and keep it where I want it? I have read conflicting answers to that question. (I am not too concerned about vaults' security because I trust the encryption.)

How detrimental to a dedicated Mac user is the Electron environment; is 1P 8 as stable and robust, reliable and usable as 1P has always been?

Any informed and objective pointers gratefully received?

TIA!

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1Password Version: 7.9.4 (MAS)
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 12.3.1

Ben

Hey @Mark Sealey

Good to hear from you again. Glad to hear you're interested in what's happening with 1Password 8.

But I really like 1P, AB as a company and the level and friendly nature of the support I've always had in the many years during which I've been 99% happy with 1P.

❤️

If I upgrade to 1P 8, will I still have a truly 'local' vault… one **on my machine **over which I have control - to access it during an Internet outage, back it up and keep it where I want it? I have read conflicting answers to that question. (I am not too concerned about vaults' security because I trust the encryption.)

1Password has always and continues to work from a local encrypted database on your device(s). The important difference for some is that 1Password 8 requires a membership, and part of that means using 1Password.com 🇺🇸 (or 1Password.ca 🇨🇦 / 1Password.eu 🇪🇺) to sync. Dropbox and iCloud are out of the picture. It also means a subscription instead of a license purchase.

This does not change the fact that you can access your data while you (or we) are offline. That continues to be true today. There is definitely more we want to do in terms of offline backups, but I think that's ultimately a different question than the one you're asking. Happy to go down that path if you'd like, but I suspect this is where the discrepancy and confusion / conflicting answers come from. At the end of the day: your encrypted 1Password data(*) exists on any device you've signed into one of our apps with. It is easy to test this: disconnect from the internet and then open and unlock 1Password.

(*) There is one caveat, which is also true with 1Password 7: Documents and attachments _may_ not be available offline. The way this works varies a bit depending on which versions and platforms you're using, but generally if you've viewed a Document/attachment on a particular device previously, or if you're using the device you used to create that item, it will likely be cached on that device.

tl;dr If you already have a membership... nothing really changes in this regard.

How detrimental to a dedicated Mac user is the Electron environment; is 1P 8 as stable and robust, reliable and usable as 1P has always been?

Obviously I'm biased, but I wouldn't say that Electron has affected the stability, robustness, usability, or reliability of 1Password in any negative way. Is the design a significant change from 1Password 7? Yep! But it was going to be regardless of which technology stack we went with. That was part of the goal. I think we've delivered a beautiful and functional app that we're quite proud to call 1Password.

Any informed and objective pointers gratefully received?

I'd say give it a try and see for yourself. 😃 We'll be happy to answer any questions along the way. I hope you decide to stick with us, but whatever path you choose I hope you stay safe out there. 😊

Ben

alexclst

1P 8 is subscription-only, so you won't have any more Local vault capability. But the data is stored locally still for offline use. You just are forced to be a subscriber to the 1P sync service. Since I made that jump years ago that was no deterrent for me.

I use an M1 Mac, so good performance may be partly from that, but the Electron environment of 1P 8 isn't too bothersome to me. Mostly it is just a bit painful in the areas that are not Mac-like about the app. I also use VS Code a ton in my work, and it is similar to that. A functional app, that is good enough, but it just does not have that Mac-like charm to it. 90% of my 1P use is Quick Access or the browser extensions, so I only see the main app that 10% or so when I'm actively going in to edit an item.

Mark Sealey

Hi @Ben,

Thanks for your encouraging reply; especially since you must be flooded with similar inquiries and because AB has done such a good job of explaining the new structure.

… At the end of the day: your encrypted 1Password data(*) exists on any device you've signed into one of our apps with. It is easy to test this: disconnect from the internet and then open and unlock 1Password…

Currently, I can find my 1P 7 database in the hierarchy under: ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Backups/, can't I (because I have the MAS version)?

Or is that backup not the same as the database currently in use? If not, what is it that is actually stored remotely - now and in the future?

I have had a subscription for a couple of years now. So will nothing really change?

Depending on your answer, I should start thinking about downloading directly from the Agile Bits store and moving away from the MAS, shouldn't I; is that a seamless and trouble-free process?

Your advice much appreciated!

Mark Sealey

Thanks, @alexclst … very helpful. I have had a subscription for some time.

What exactly does not '…hav[ing] any more Local vault capability' imply in that case, please?

If the vault is local and a copy stored for synching (which I definitely want to do: iMac to iPhone to MacBook Pro (intel)), I'm OK with that.

It seems from what you are saying that it's only the synchronization using a subscription that is changing from 1P 7 for those who previously 'arranged' their own synching, Yes? Not my case at all…

There seem to be so many criticisms of the new model. Are they all largely ill-informed?

Again - your comment much appreciated :-)

ag_tommy

@Mark Sealey

I have always used the website version for ease of use. Since way before there was a Mac App Store and continue to do so now.

No, nothing changes with regard to the two versions and the availability of your data. In both you have offline data and when you return to a coverage area (wifi, cell) data would sync. The same thing applies now. When using 1Password.com all of your data is backed up. Exactly what you have in your membership.

Data locations for 1Password 6:

• Mac App Store - ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Data/OnePassword.sqlite
• AgileBits version - ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/Data/OnePassword.sqlite

Mark Sealey

Thanks, @ag_tommy !

Would you say that the 'storm' suggesting that "users no longer have access to their data" is ill-informed?

Would it make sense to switch from the MAS to the AgileBits store version… loss of data (/functionality); changes in subscription payment and dates etc?

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ag_tommy

@Mark Sealey

I would say if anyone has any questions, please ask. We'll be happy to help.

Mark Sealey

@abriden ,

… so much essential functionality on which users have relied that has been REMOVED …

Please would you cite examples; I'd like to see what may have gone and see whether it matters to me :-) Thanks!

Mark Sealey

@ag_tommy ,

… if anyone has any questions, please ask …

I'd like to give 1P 8 a try.

So, re versions: I currently have a version from the AgileBits store on my MacBook Pro and the MAS version (7.9.4) on my iMac (12.3.1). (As well as for iOS.)

If I download and install version 8 from the AgileBits store on my iMac, will that dmg transparently overwrite the MAS version in such a way that I can be 100% certain of no data loss?

And will my subscription (due for renewal next month, June 2022 on the MAS) be transferred to you at AgileBits (before then)?

Lastly, because I have versions of 1P going back almost to its beginning, (how) can I safely remove dependent files from - presumably - ~/Library* so that I only have one set of data in (as you say) ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/Data/OnePassword.sqlite

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Mark Sealey

Thanks, @abriden .

1. 1P mini… no longer in the task bar?
2. so it's not possible to change a 'website 2' field('s name?) to, say, 'website 1' as a URL becomes outdated?
3. I never relied on 1P 7 working with every site - especially for a 'Remember me' checkbox etc. I never expected it to cope with CAPTCHA
4. that's more than just cosmetic?
5. Electron?

I think you're right: I shall just have to try it.

Reverting to 7? Easy and safe?

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Mark Sealey

@adam1991,

… brutally simple just to install v7 again, restart your browser …

Why would I have to restart my browser; to re-install the (Safari) extensions?

How about where all the dependent files live?

Thanks!

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hernandezr

"It won't take more than half a day is my guess." It might take as little as 10 minutes. That's how quickly it took me. Everything listed above is spot on. v8 is like AB was hacked by another company to make 1PW so horrible that they would loose customers. Really, v8 feels like it was released by another company, not AB.

jtaylor

I have been a 1Password user since the beginning. I've never bothered to register on this forum. I generally don't post anywhere.

As a developer myself I feared 1Password 8 switching to Electron. I even uninstalled 1Password, cancelled my subscription and switched to another solution.

I decided to try version 8 when it left beta, and I like it better than 7 or previous versions. Is it perfect? No. Does it have some warts? Yes. Will AgileBits improve it? Yes I believe they will.

I echo try its for yourself, my experience surprised me.

dteare

Thanks for sharing your experiences with 1Password 8, @jtaylor. And thank you for supporting us all these years. 🤗

@Mark Sealey: I wanted to follow up and see if you're in a good state. It looks like your question about the subscription from Mac App Store wasn't answered yet, and I'm not sure the upgrade process was entirely clear, so let me take a shot at answering those.

You can download 1Password 8 from our website and what you'll actually get is an installer. The installer app will make sure you're in a good state and ready to upgrade to 1Password 8 (for example, it will verify all your vaults are already syncing with 1Password.com using a 1Password membership) and then it will download the appropriate architecture (Intel or Apple Silicon) for your machine.

When 1Password 8 launches it will find your existing 1Password accounts and you should simply need to enter your password to unlock and you'll be off to the races as all your data should now be visible.

As for your subscription through Apple, you're all set. There's nothing for you to do or change as your subscription will be unaffected.

The only other change you'll want to make is around the browser extension as you'll want the new one installed. It sounds like you're using Safari so once you have the app up and running, download 1Password for Safari from the Mac App Store and run it to get things setup. It's only a few button clicks.

I hope that helps. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

++dave;
1Password Founder

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Mark Sealey

Thanks, Dave!

I can see I shall have to try it out. As I say, long time happy user. The strength of feeling on both sides does worry me a little.

I'll give it a try.

… As for your subscription through Apple, you're all set. There's nothing for you to do or change as your subscription will be unaffected.…

Still not clear on this: am I not now paying Apple? How can I switch payment to you since that's where I'll have downloaded the new version 8 from?

… download 1Password for Safari from the Mac App Store and run it …

That's a separate app which takes care of the Safari extension?

And to clear out/up/away all the dependent files in various subdirectories of ~/Library… etc, please?

jtaylor

@adam1991 I wasn't addressing you but Mark the original poster. Your feelings are clear, as are those of other vocal posters, but they don't match mine as another long-time user of 1Password, in the areas that have always mattered to me, it still works fine. I even enjoy Universal autofill.

I am content to see updates improve things rather than wanting v7 to exist forever or for AB to admit their 'mistakes' with v8. If you aren't then vote with your wallet in the future.

Mark Sealey

Thanks for your helpful comments, @jtaylor!

There really does seem to be only one way of deciding.

@adam1991 - I've been a user and supporter of other users for way too long not to want to keep a clean machine… have seen clutter cause chaos, crashes and crying far too often not to want to remove redundant files whenever possible :-)

… why are you concerned about where the dependent files live? That's what I mean by overthinking it. …

Ben

@Mark Sealey

There really does seem to be only one way of deciding.

Indeed; there is really no risk here, other than perhaps a bit of your time. As you're already on a membership it isn't as though there is an additional financial cost, or a data migration involved. I'd say give it a try and see for yourself what your opinion is. I'm not sure there is much merit in putting a lot of weight in the opinions of others (including mine!), when the barrier to entry for trying it yourself is so low.

Still not clear on this: am I not now paying Apple? How can I switch payment to you since that's where I'll have downloaded the new version 8 from?

Without looking up your account, which isn't something we can do here in public, I couldn't say whether you're currently paying us directly or paying us through Apple. Either way is fine, and continues to be fine with v8. The fact that the v8 app isn't downloaded from the App Store doesn't change that. If you'd like to dig deeper though please feel free to contact our billing team at support@1password.com via email, and they'd be happy confirm how you're currently paying. They can also assist if you'd like to switch payment mechanisms.

That's a separate app which takes care of the Safari extension?

Correct.

And to clear out/up/away all the dependent files in various subdirectories of ~/Library… etc, please?

I do understand the desire but we really don't recommend manually "cleaning up" 1Password related files. This isn't something I'd be comfortable providing additional guidance on. The 1Password 8 installer does clean up anything that we feel has the potential to be problematic. For example, if you still have the 1Password 3 "Agent" on your system, the installer will remove it. Beyond that the official position is that everything else should be left as-is unless there is a problem, in which case we can troubleshoot from there.

Ben

Mark Sealey

That's very clear and helpful, @Ben !

I've been the process of rationalizing my tags and items (I have over 1,300 of them). As soon as I've completed that - and exported all those which are inactive to a Numbers document and deleted them - just in case, I'll download from the Agile Bits store and give it a try.

Your help and encouragement much appreciated :-)

Ben

Happy to help, @Mark Sealey. Please let us know how it turns out. 😃

Ben

Mark Sealey

Will do. I'm about half way through tidying up my tags now. Your help much appreciated :-)

xmarcelo

hi @Mark Sealey

loyal (so far) long time paying user here, with a little experience in other electron-based apps like 1p8, and also worried there is no sign that 1p8 will be available in the Mac app store any time soon, even if we've been asking almost daily in some other thread (where the 1p team just stopped responding).

I would recommend to wait until 1password 8 is in the Mac app store, and also agile bits provides the numbers I've been asking (memory, swap and cpu usage while using 1password and while just "sleeping" from a typical relatively recent 8GB intel and 8GB M1 Mac). Of course I have a bit more RAM in this M1Max MacBook Pro, but I'd rather see those numbers before telling the rest of my family to move from 1password 7 to 1password 8, since, as you may be aware, electron-based applications (whether their backend is rust or javascript), are known to be resource hogs (because of electron itself).

@Ben , @dteare we're still waiting for answers. If we wanted just an ad of 1password 8, the main page and the blog are just fine, but we're here because there's not much actually usable information there, and there's still no answer regarding a timeline for having 1password 8 in the Mac app store. Some consideration to us, paying Mac users would be really appreciated.

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