Question regarding backup setting, and other things

ScarySulley

I'm trying out 1Password 3 for Mac and under the preferences > backup, it gives you the option of how often to backup (Day, Week, and Month) and to keep backup files (All, 10, 50, or 100). I'm assuming by "backup files" they mean the actual backup files. It says "if data was changed" above the how many backup files to keep. To test, I kept changing the password of a login until I go to at least 10 files. Well it went past 10 even though I put "10" as an option.

Can anyone please provide any insight as to what this setting is? I'm new 1Password, so I'm still learning!

Thanks!

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

Thanks for testing out 1Password! I hope you're enjoying it so far :)

I can't quite tell you why 1Password is initially saving more than 10 backups. I tested it here and I'm seeing the same thing. But I did notice that it cleaned up those extras after I re-started my system. So you don't need to worry too much about an excess of backups filling up your computer, as long as you restart the computer every once in a while. Please note as well, that you can go into that folder and manually remove the backups if you think there are too many. I wouldn't recommend deleting too many backups though - I can't tell you how many times I've had to help a user restore from a backup, it has saved a lot of people.

Please let me know if you have any further questions - we're here to help!

ScarySulley

Thanks for very informative reply Megan.

I'll test it some more, but that setting is referring to how many backup files it'll keep if changes are made. That answers my question then.

While I'm here, I have some more questions:

1) In the Store section of your website, I only see licenses for 1Password for Mac. How would I go about getting one for 1Password 3 and how much is it?

2) Sort of a dumb question, but the file with all the info that is encrypted is under ~name/Library/ApplicationSupport/1Password/1Password.agilekeychain, correct? Is that file encrypted only when 1Password and the browser plugin(s) are closed?

3) Related to #2, are the backup files encrypted?

Thanks for your help! :-)

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

I'm glad to hear that we're making some progress answering your questions :)

1) In the Store section of your website, I only see licenses for 1Password for Mac. How would I go about getting one for 1Password 3 and how much is it?

When we released 1Password 4 for Mac, we removed our previous version from sale to avoid confusion. If you are unable to make use of 1Password 4 because you are on an older operating system (1Password 4 requires OS X Mountain Lion or greater) then you can purchase a license for 1Password 4 and email in to support and we'll happily add a 1Password 3 license to your account. (The bonus is that, when you do upgrade your system, you have a shiny new 1Password 4 license waiting for you!)

2) Sort of a dumb question, but the file with all the info that is encrypted is under ~name/Library/ApplicationSupport/1Password/1Password.agilekeychain, correct? Is that file encrypted only when 1Password and the browser plugin(s) are closed?

Your 1Password.agilekeychain is the file that holds all of your data. All data stays encrypted here until it is viewed - only one file is decrypted at a time. Feel free to read the Agile Keychain Design for more details.

3) Related to #2, are the backup files encrypted?

Definitely. :)

Keep the questions coming!

ScarySulley

When we released 1Password 4 for Mac, we removed our previous version from sale to avoid confusion. If you are unable to make use of 1Password 4 because you are on an older operating system (1Password 4 requires OS X Mountain Lion or greater) then you can purchase a license for 1Password 4 and email in to support and we'll happily add a 1Password 3 license to your account. (The bonus is that, when you do upgrade your system, you have a shiny new 1Password 4 license waiting for you!)

I was wondering about this. I'd hate to get 1Password 3 and upgrade to have get 1Password 4 (currently running Snow Leopard). If I were to buy both a license for both OS X and Windows (the bundle), I assume you get two licenses (OS X and Windows) and I'd need to email you to get a license for Snow Leopard/1Password 3, correct?

Thanks again!

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

The Mac and Windows bundle will include a license for 1Password 4 for Mac and 1Password for Windows. The bonus is that if you buy the bundle now, it will include a free upgrade to 1Password 4 for Windows, which is currently in beta testing.

Once you purchase the bundle, just send an email to support@ agilebits .com including your purchase information, and we'll be happy to add a 1Password 3 license to your account.

If you have further questions, please let me know!

ScarySulley

Hi Megan,

Me again...So I was looking at all the documentation under 'Help." In this Features Overview for 1Password 3 for Mac apply to all versions/Mac/Windows of 1Password in general? Such as locally storing data (unless you're syncing with DropBox over multiple devices of course), etc. I know that may seem obvious, but I didn't see other Features Overview for other versions, so I want to double check just incase other versions are indeed slightly different.

Thanks again!

Jasper

Hi @ScarySulley,

That features overview list for 1Password 3 for Mac mostly applies to other 1P versions. Your data can always be stored locally only, no matter the platform. The only thing I noticed on that list that doesn't apply to all platforms is true browser integration, which is not available on mobile devices (for example, due limitations in iOS, 1P for iPhone can't fill data in Safari).

Here are some basic feature overviews for other platforms:

1Password 4 for Mac

1Password 4 for iOS

1Password for Windows

Hope that helps. :)

ScarySulley

Thanks JasperP for the information!

ScarySulley

Actually I have another question. Under downloads, I see a version for Android, but under Store, I don't see a link for Android...?

Also, if I purchased through the App Store, that would be 1Password 4, so in order to get a license for 1Password 3, as mentioned above by Megan, I would have to buy through this site and email for a license for 1Password3. Which I can not do through the App Store. Correct?

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

1Password for Android is currently only a Reader, and can be downloaded for free from the Google Play store

As far as 1Password 3 goes, we'd be happy to generate a license for you, regardless of whether you purchase 1Password 4 via the Agile webstore or the Mac App Store. Just email your purchase information to support@ agilebits .com and let us know that you need a 1Password 3 license as well. :)

ScarySulley

Is there a difference between purchasing via the App Store vs. your website?

Sorry for all the questions!

Jasper

Hey @ScarySulley,

The Mac App Store version and AgileBits website version are basically the same. See this page for a few more details though:

Purchase from Mac App Store or AgileBits' Store?

ScarySulley

So if purchased through your site, iCloud syncing doesn't work? I'm running Snow Leopard, so it's not issue now, but if I did upgrade OS X down the line, I couldn't sync via iCloud but just Dropbox?

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

Both the webstore version and the Mac App Store version of 1Password currently support iCloud sync. The difference is that Apple has not officially said that apps purchased outside of the App Store have guaranteed access to iCloud, so if Apple were to decide to make iCloud support exclusive to Mac App Store apps, we would have to remove it from our webstore version. While there is no reason right now to suggest that this might happen, we want to make sure our users don't have an unpleasant surprise somewhere down the line. :)

ScarySulley

When 1Password has the database open, is the file still encrypted? Using it only on one computer with the database stored locally wouldn't be much of an issue, but if I have more than one device and sync the database file with Dropbox, that could be an issue. I know you have this all figured out, so I'm not implying that you don't know what you're doing, but when dealing with sensitive info, I'd like to be sure. :)

Jasper

Hi @ScarySulley,

I think you're right, AgileBits has pretty much got this all figured out! But I'm the same, I really like to understand the apps I use (especially one like 1Password that's security related). :)

Your 1Password data is always encrypted in the cloud if that's what you're asking. Decryption is always done locally. And even locally, your database is still generally encrypted when 1Password is unlocked. The contents of an item are only decrypted when you are specifically using it (editing, viewing, or filling a webpage with it). Once its out of your sight, it's out of 1Password's mind.

ScarySulley

Thanks for the reply Jasper.

Sales related question here (sorry for all the questions, but this issue just came to my mind)...if I want to buy the Mac/PC bundle, that means I can't purchase the app via the App Store right? I would have to go through your website.

Thanks again for your help. :)

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

The Mac/PC bundle as a single purchase is only available through our website. However, if you would like to purchase 1Password 4 for Mac via the Mac App Store, you are more than welcome to! Simply send your purchase receipt in to our support team and let them know you need a Windows license as well. We'll draw up a coupon for you so that you can purchase 1Password for Windows through our website at the same discount as you would get with the bundle. :)

ScarySulley

Alright great. Glad to hear you have a lot flexibility for your customers!

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

Always happy to help!

ScarySulley

The default location for the data file for OS X is under name/Library/Application Support/1Password. When I go to preferences and transfer it to DropBox it moves that file to DropBox.

To verify, if I wanted to move the data file back to local storage only and not DropBox, I simply move the data file to the default location (or any location I assume?) and then go to 1Passwords preferences and Choose Another Location... which would be the default location under Application Support or where ever it's at.

Lastly, is the main password "embedded" in the data file? So when I access it via my PC, it'll "know" what the password is for that data file...? In other words, different devices won't have different passwords to access the same synced data file...?

Also, I checked under Folders > All and Tags > Untagged and there was a whole bunch of logins that weren't anywhere else under "Vault." When I sent them to the trash, my real logins were also included (I put those back), but most of them were other logins that were not in the Vault. What are these logins/entries?

Thanks again for your help!

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

To verify, if I wanted to move the data file back to local storage only and not DropBox, I simply move the data file to the default location (or any location I assume?) and then go to 1Passwords preferences and Choose Another Location... which would be the default location under Application Support or where ever it's at.

If you are not using Dropbox, we highly recommend storing 1Password in the default location. Here's how to move your datafile from Dropbox back to local storage:

• Quit 1Password
• Open a Finder window and go to ~/Library/Application Support/1Password
• Open a Finder window and find your 1Password.agilekeychain in Dropbox
• Drag your 1Password.agilekeychain from the Dropbox window to the other Library window
• Double-click the 1Password.agilekeychain in the new location to open 1Password with this datafile.

Lastly, is the main password "embedded" in the data file? So when I access it via my PC, it'll "know" what the password is for that data file...? In other words, different devices won't have different passwords to access the same synced data file...?

Without getting too technical here, your datafile will have the same Master Password whether you access it on your Mac or your PC.

Also, I checked under Folders > All and Tags > Untagged and there was a whole bunch of logins that weren't anywhere else under "Vault." When I sent them to the trash, my real logins were also included (I put those back), but most of them were other logins that were not in the Vault. What are these logins/entries?

I'm not quite sure what you're seeing here. The Folders and Tags options are simply a different way to view the information that is stored in your vault. There should be no items in Folders or Tags that do not exist in your vault as well. Moving an item to the Trash from either of these categories will remove it from the main vault as well.

ScarySulley

Thanks for the information Megan,

In working between the Mac (1Password 3) and Windows 7 version, there are some things I noticed:

• Updating the title of a login on the Mac updates it on the PC, but not the other way around.
• Deleting a login on my PC, will not delete it on my Mac. But it will the other way around.
• In order to update certain info (user name/password, etc) from PC to Mac, I have to lock and unlock 1Password. Although this isn't a huge issue. But wanted to mention it nonetheless.

There seems to be some syncing issues going from PC to Mac.

Are these issues fixed in 1Password 4?

Thanks!

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley,

Thanks for bringing these issues to our attention. Because 1Password 4 has been completely re-written from the ground-up, the new version isn't subject to the quirks of the previous version. However, all of your data should be syncing between both computers now just fine. So, I'd like you to try something for me:

• Quit 1Password for Windows
• On your Mac, open 1Password
• Select Help > Troubleshooting > Rebuild Data File

Do things sync better for you now? If you're still seeing discrepancies, please let me know and we'll do some further investigating!

ScarySulley

Hi Megan,

Thank you for your assistance. Unfortunately, your solution did not seem to work. I also noticed that Locations made from the PC do not sync to the Mac. But the Mac will sync to the PC. Probably same issue, but just wanted to mention it.

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley‌,

I'm sorry to hear that the solution didn't work for you! I'd like to take a closer look at your system there. In order to do so, I'm going to ask you to generate 2 Diagnostic Reports, one for each computer.

Windows PC

Click Help->Diagnostics Report->Export to File. Save the file somewhere you know you can easily locate.

Mac
Using your browser please download a small standalone tool from us that will run a networked copy of our diagnostics tool.

http://i.agilebits.com/kyle/tools/1Password_diagnostics.zip

After the download is complete, use Finder to locate it. It should be in your downloads folder. If the file ends in .zip then your browser has not already unzipped it. Please double click it to expand it.

The expanded file will have a "Unix Executable File" named 1Password_diagnostics. Double-clicking this will cause a Terminal window to open and download some files it needs. (Note: If you use OS X Lion or Mountain Lion, you may need to right click the file, choose Open, and click Open on the dialog).

Once it completes it should open a window in your browser with the results. Please click File->Save As to save this file to your computer. Please save it as "Page Source" or "HTML" if there are options for this.

If you do not get a report created, please copy and paste the output from the Terminal window so we can take a look at the errors that were created. This will help us figure out where the problem is in creating the diagnostics report.

Then attach both of the entire files to an email to us: support+forum@ agilebits .com

Please do not post your Diagnostics Report in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report in our inbox.

Once we see the report we should get a better idea of what's going on here. Thanks in advance!

ScarySulley

Hi Megan,

Thank you for the instructions. While I have the file for my Mac, the PC has the whole ZIP folder. Which file in the folder do I email support? Or do I just send the whole ZIP folder?

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley‌,

Please send the whole zipped folder in to support. The more information, the better :)

ScarySulley

Hi Megan,

Me again, so after much trail and error, we were unable to resolve the issue with 1Password 3 :( Although they both tried very hard and I appreciate their efforts. I've been using (testing) Mavericks for a few weeks now and am slowly transitioning to it (using it now actually). I see there appears to be sale going on until this Friday.

Questions:

1) I was reading here about the 'Upgrade Policy,' at says:

Please note that this upgrade policy is valid only for software sold and distributed directly by AgileBits. This policy is not applicable to software sold by other distributors, including the Mac App Store, iTunes App Store and Android Marketplace.

Does that mean that all minor updates (1Password 4.x) are at a charge if 1Password 4 is purchased via the MAS? Where if purchased through Agilebits, all minor updates are free?

2) Regarding transferring licenses for Mac. I was reading here about this subject. So, in short you can transfer from the Mac App Store to the Agilebits Store, but you can't go from the Agilebits store to the Mac App Store. What reasons do users usually want to transfer MAS license to Agilebits Store license? I know you mentioned above while both can use iCloud sync, that the MAS will be guaranteed to have the iCloud sync if Apple decides to limit that to only apps purchased via the MAS. But are there usually other reasons?

3) (I realize this isn't the 1Password 4 section, but it would be silly to ask this in a new thread :)))
Upon testing 1Password 4, when I create a new vault, I don't see the agilekeychain file unde ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/. All I see are two documents under the 'Data' folder. If I recall, 1Password 3 had kept it's agilekeychain file there as well. But when I turn on syncing with Dropbox, it shows up in Dropbox in it's folder. Where is the main vault data file kept if I don't use Dropbox syncing?

Sorry again for all the noob questions! :)

Megan

Hi @ScarySulley‌

I'm so sorry to hear that the team was unable to solve your issue with 1Password 3, but I'd be happy to get these upgrade questions answered for you!

Does that mean that all minor updates (1Password 4.x) are at a charge if 1Password 4 is purchased via the MAS? Where if purchased through Agilebits, all minor updates are free?

Minor updates are free. Period. Regardless of where you purchased 1Password. At AgileBits we try to keep paid upgrades as few and far between as possible. In fact, 2009 (when we released 1Password 3) was the first paid upgrade in AgileBits history, and there hasn't been another paid upgrade until the release of 1Password 4 this past year. The statement that you quote merely cautions users that we are not able to offer the upgrade discount through the Mac App Store. Apple just doesn't give us a way to do that.

So, in short you can transfer from the Mac App Store to the Agilebits Store, but you can't go from the Agilebits store to the Mac App Store. What reasons do users usually want to transfer MAS license to Agilebits Store license? I know you mentioned above while both can use iCloud sync, that the MAS will be guaranteed to have the iCloud sync if Apple decides to limit that to only apps purchased via the MAS. But are there usually other reasons?

We've made some improvements to 1Password since that conversation you mention, and in fact, now the webstore version is able to verify a Mac App Store purchase and allow you to switch to the webstore version with minimal difficulty. That being said, there a few minor differences in the backend of these versions (mostly due to Apple's sandboxing regulations) so we don't recommend switching back and forth between versions often, as there are a few steps that must be taken to ensure your data is in the correct location and that you don't get conflicts with 1Password Mini.

Other than iCloud, the 'main' difference between the webstore version and the Mac App Store version is the frequency of updates. When a new update is available for 1Password, we submit it to the Mac App Store for review at the same time that we release it to our webstore customers. Depending on Apple's review process, this could mean that Mac App Store users are waiting a few days or a week on average for the update.

Where is the main vault data file kept if I don't use Dropbox syncing?

In 1Password 4, your data (for all vaults) is always stored in a default location. For the Mac App Store, this location is: ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Data/OnePassword.sqlite, and the location for the webstore version is : ~/Library/Application Support/1Password\ 4/Data/OnePassword.sqlite

Please note that this data cannot be moved. When you choose to sync your data, 1Password will actually make a copy of this data and store it in the appropriate sync location. Then both the local copy and the sync copy are updated when changes are made. This is an improvement over 1Password 3 where your data was only stored in one place - there were far too many cases where a 1Password.agilekeychain file would accidentally get deleted from Dropbox, forcing a user to restore from a backup.

I hope this helps, but we're here for you if you do have any more 'noob' questions! :)