iTunes file sharing not available in version 4.5? [replaced by backup/restore function in v5]

Jasper

Hi @Razor3,

Don't see the point of mentioning version 4.5.2 since it does not resolve the original issue.

A backup function has been added in version 4.5.2, which will allow you to transfer your data from your iOS device to your Mac. So far, this is half of what iTunes file sharing previously did. We do intend to add the other half (restore functionality) as well in a future update, and when we do, you will be able to restore data from your Mac onto iOS.

Hi @iceout,

To access the backup files made by 1Password 4 for iOS:

• Open iTunes.
• Select your device from the devices list.
• Click on the Apps tab.
• Scroll down to the File Sharing section, find 1Password in the Apps list, and click on it.

• In the Documents area, you will see a Backups folder like this:
  

• You can transfer that folder to your Mac, and optionally restore the data to 1Password 4 for Mac.

Please let me know if that works. :)

Stephen_C

Jasper that explanation was most helpful for me, at any rate: thanks. The strange thing is that the first time I connected to iTunes after updating to iOS 4.5.2 I didn't see the backup folder or any way to navigate to it. Without rebooting my phone I've just connected to iTunes again and the backup folder shows.

Edit: I assume you're meant to be able to double click on the backups folder to reveal its contents. When I do that nothing happens. Maybe that's because as yet there is no backup on the phone.

Edit 2: sorry! I have re-read your post and see you refer to transfer of the whole folder to the Mac. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Stephen

duelist77

Still don't understand why iTunes Mac-to-iOS sync/restore is taking so long and iOS-to-Mac got fixed first, when Mac-to-iOS should be higher priority. Curious what the engineering issues under-the-hood are that's making the fix take so long.

Also, just a semantic nitpick, but calling the iTunes Mac-to-iOS keychain transfer a "restore" is not very helpful for those of us who edit the keychain strictly on the Mac, since the "restore" semantics assumes that the iOS keychain is the master copy and the Mac keychain is a backup/subsidiary copy of the iOS keychain. For us, the Mac keychain is the only master, authoritative copy that overrides whatever is on the iOS device. Thus, the Mac-to-iOS transfer is, in a way, a combination of sync and backup, making it that much important that it get fixed ASAP.

Core_dev

Thank you for the clarification @JasperP‌ but I agree with @duelist77‌. I feel Mac-to-iOS should be higher priority. I don't use Wifi, iCloud, or Dropbox to store/transfer passwords for security reasons. I keep the master keychain on my Mac and then transfer to iOS device as backup. For now, I have been typing in all passwords in manually. I've gotten a lot better at memorizing long alpha numeric / symbol chains. I prefer not to though.

GDWzLCoeOuPOniGU

@Megan and @JasperP: Thank you for the clarifications.

However, I'm going to have to second what @duelist77‌ and @Core_dev‌ said.

The entire point of this, or any password management software, is to be able to store a large amount of credentials with usernames and long, complex passwords. Since it is a security tool, I would also imagine that it would include features to support services that security-conscious users place at the top of their priority list with tools like these, i.e. locally storing credentials and not sending credentials over a wireless medium.

Based on the above "requirements," this means that a non-mobile device is probably best for the "original" password keychain, based on the fact that not all websites are mobile-friendly/have apps and on the large amount of credentials needing to be typed in to 1Password's form (password generation works, but with most sites not allowing certain lengths/characters, large amounts of custom credentials require something more than the iOS interface). This would also mean that syncing should (intuitively) be from the non-mobile device to the iOS app.

The second point of password management software---with credential diversity in mind---is to be able to centralize credential management when a compromise (or assumed compromise) occurs, like, say, Heartbleed. I have nearly 100 logins to Internet sites: I do not want to change each one of those using my iPhone. Changing the affected passwords for sites was a pain even using the desktop Mac app.

(As an aside, given all of the forum postings of the switch from the Mac 1Password3 to 1Password4 software issues, I even manually entered my 1Password3 credentials when upgrading. This took a few hours on a Mac: I'd hate to think how long it would take to populate my iOS 1Password's current keychain from scratch with manual typing of passwords.)

So what gives?

Finally, despite being a "loyal 1Password customer" for the last few years...given that the App Store updates seem to be on a two-month or so release cycle, and that the wired sync from non-mobile to iOS feature seems to be on the back-burner for the devs, I'm considering switching to another service like LastPass, Dashlane (free!), or something similar.

Sorry for the rant, but this is extraordinarily frustrating.

iceout

@JasperP

I do not see a backup folder when looking where it is supposed to be. There is nothing there.

iceout

iceout

OK the backups folder finally showed up in iTunes 24 hours later. Apparently the app does not do its internal backup upon immediate changes or something else is going on in the code.

The file it creates has a breakdown of what is in the backup itself and Mine mentions how many items I have however it does not match how many items listed at the top of my Categories tab within the iOS app

My Categories tab says 54 entries and the backup file says in its file name that I have 77 items.

Is this apples vs oranges or is this something else??
77 seems about how many items I have ever created including deleted items. Is 1Password not deleting the items i delete??

iceout

Jasper

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone! We understand your interest for this feature, and our developers are working hard to add a restore function in a future update.

The strange thing is that the first time I connected to iTunes after updating to iOS 4.5.2 I didn't see the backup folder or any way to navigate to it.

Backups are created daily (as long as your data has been modified since the previous backup) — so the app most likely hadn't made its first backup yet. :)

My Categories tab says 54 entries and the backup file says in its file name that I have 77 items.

The backup item count will include active items and trashed items, which explains this difference. If you delete an item, it will be moved to the trash (you can only empty the trash using 1Password for Mac).

Stephen_C

Backups are created daily (as long as your data has been modified since the previous backup) — so the app most likely hadn't made its first backup yet.

Bother, how stupid of me not to think of that! Thanks for explaining it Jasper.

Stephen

nefuchs

Hi

I am using on my MacBook 1Password Version 4.4 (440001) and on my iPhone 1Password Version 4.5.2. I synchronise via Dropbox.

Following Jasper's instructions, I checked the file that 1Password makes available via ITunes and found a folder "Inbox" dated 22 Dec 2012. When I copied it to the Desktop, I noticed that the folder contains the file "database.onepassword3" dated 5 Dec 2012 that contains mostly unreadable stuff.

What is this? What should I do with this folder/file?

--- nef

Megan

Hi @nefuchs‌

I'm not quite sure how the Inbox folder got in there. I can tell you that 1Password 4 does not read any data directly from this location, and since you're using 1Password 4 for iOS now, any 1Password 3 data is likely outdated. So you safely delete that folder without risking your database. :)

I hope this helps, but we're here if you have any further questions!

nefuchs

Megan

I tried to remove the folder "Inbox" which resulted in removing the file "database.onepassword3" leaving an empty folder "Inbox".

I am afraid that this was not a good idea. First I noticed that this action left some - but not all – 1Password login items on the iPhone without the entry "website". Trying to restore these login items via Dropbox synchronisation I noticed second that this form of synchronisation does not longer work. Thus I restored the missing information via WiFi sync.

However, this left me with a crippled version of 1Password on my iPhone since I can no longer sync via Dropbox. Resetting the iPhone does not help. Also trying to copy the original folder "Inbox" with the file "database.onepassword3" – found in TimeMachine – to the iPhone does not work since I am told that I do not have the respective privileges.

In the end, I uninstalled 1Password from my iPhone and reinstalled it which solved the problem. Syncing via Dropbox is again possible. In iTunes I do not longer find the folder ominous folder "Inbox".

By the way, I noticed in iTunes that also my iPad has a 1Password folder "Inbox" dated 16 Dec 2012, though this folder is empty. Here I will also reinstall 1 Password.

--- nef

Megan

Hi @nefuchs‌

I'm sorry to hear that you've been having trouble here. I'm pretty sure that the 'Inbox' folder wasn't anything ominous, but it's great to hear that reinstalling 1Password 4 for iOS seems to have fixed the problem. Please let me know if you see anything else strange, and we'll investigate further!

duelist77

@Megan - In your post #24:

This backup and restore function is modelled after the backup and restore feature that is currently available on Mac. This means that your data will be in .1p4_zip format instead of .agilekeychain. We hope that making the backup and restore process uniform across the platforms will simplify things for users.

I'm not familiar with the Mac backup/restore feature. Where do I find it? And if the data to be copied to the iOS going to be in the .1p4_zip format, does this mean that I don't need to turn on Folder Sync on the Mac anymore (in order to generate the agilekeychain file) to use iTunes File Sharing for Mac-to-iOS copying? And how's this file going to be generated on the Mac side?

Please note that iTunes File Sharing was never really a "sync" option. It essentially offered the same backup and restore functionality, so there really is little difference here, except for the terminology and the file format.

Referencing back to my post #34 and thinking back to Agilebits' attempt at an USB sync solution in the past, perhaps there is a semantics disconnect in what you and I mean by "sync." Seems like you're thinking of a more technical definition of "sync," as in an incremental, entry-by-entry data reconciliation or something like that to get the Mac and iOS data to be the same. What I mean by "sync" is "get the Mac and iOS data to be the same" and being agnostic on how that's done under the hood. So while it may be true that itunes file sharing is not "sync" in the incremental data reconciliation sense, for people like me and some others in this thread who avoid cloud or wi-fi syncing and treat the Mac keychain as the always "master" copy and the iOS keychain as the "slave," Mac-to-iOS overwrite/restore is "sync."

Megan

Hi @duelist77‌

I'm not familiar with the Mac backup/restore feature. Where do I find it?

If you look in the File menu of 1Password, you will see a Backup and Restore option. These backups are created automatically on a daily basis, but you can manually create on at any time by selecting the 'backup' option. (So you will not need to enable Folder Sync anymore to create a 1Password.agilekeychain file) Backups are stored in a different location depending on where you purchased 1Password:

• Mac App Store: ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Backups

• Webstore: ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/Backups

So while it may be true that itunes file sharing is not "sync" in the incremental data reconciliation sense, for people like me and some others in this thread who avoid cloud or wi-fi syncing and treat the Mac keychain as the always "master" copy and the iOS keychain as the "slave," Mac-to-iOS overwrite/restore is "sync."

You're right, the difference here really is semantic. Thanks for clarifying how you think of things. :)

jimkb

I'm using 1Password4 for iOS (4.5.2) and 1Password for Windows (4.0.0.BETA-487). I am having issues using the iTunes File Sharing that saves the "Backups" from my iPhone to a folder on Windows. After I save the "Backups" folder to the PC and try to restore it with 1Password an error is displayed "1Password 2014-06-03 HH_MM_SS.1p4_zip is not a 1Password backup."

If a backup is done from 1Password for Windows the file has a different extension, agilekeychain_zip. If I change the extension on the iOS backup from 1p4_zip to agilekeychain_zip and attempt to restore it, then 1Password give the error "1Password 2.agilekeychain is not a 1Password Vault."

Is there something that I am doing wrong or is it just not built into 1Password for Windows yet?

Megan

Hi @jimkb,

Unfortunately Windows uses a different file format for backups than Mac and iOS, so the backup and restore option will not work for transferring your data between 1Password 4 for iOS and 1Password for Windows.

1Password 4 for Windows includes support for manually syncing your 1Password data over a temporary wi-fi connection with 1Password for iOS. Is there a reason that you're not using Wi-Fi sync to transfer your data?

jimkb

In my work environment, wi-fi access is not allowed and the only option available is iTunes File sharing.

duelist77

@Megan,

Thanks for the clarification that you were referring to the 1Password application on the Mac. I had initially read your description as referring to backup/restore features of OS X the operating system itself. Silly me!

jimkb

@Megan, am I to understand that iTunes file sharing will not be an option for iOS and Windows going forward? I thought that file sharing worked prior to the backup/restore option. If there is a version that file sharing worked, would you be able to tell me which one so I could go back to that?

Ben

@jimkb I don't recall iTunes File Sharing ever being an option for moving data iOS <-> Windows. The only option we've ever had, to my knowledge, is Dropbox. That isn't to say that other options won't be possible in the future, but that is the current (and historical) state of things.

Thanks!

littlebobbytables

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed at the moment.

Here's the crux, I don't like cloud services. When it came time to move to a proper smartphone, Android only seemed to allow synchronisation of calendars and contacts through Google so I went with iOS and their local syncing. When Apple removed local syncing of calendars and contacts in Mavericks, something I didn't even discover until way too late, I was really annoyed at Apple for a) removing the feature and b) being so silent on it - I wouldn't have jumped on board the release of Mavericks if I'd realised. I spent/wasted a lot of time investigating different iCal server options before I eventually managed to regain 'local' syncing between my phone and computer. A lot of time and effort caused by Apple's belief that we should all be happy using iCloud.

I love 1Password - wouldn't be without it but the syncing options seem to be overlooked. Everything seems to work as advertised if you're willing to use iCloud but for those that simply don't want their data held elsewhere it kind of feels like we're second class citizens. I was surprised when I accidentally discovered attachments weren't syncing via the Wi-Fi sync - I had assumed they were. I was excited about multiple vaults, probably impatiently eager as we waiting for iOS to become secondary vault aware and saddened when it was found it only worked with cloud services.

With the change in strategy with iTunes File Sharing I assume that option for secondary vaults is now off the list. So where does that leave users who want to sync locally? Unless I've missed something we can't sync attachments (no ETA I believe) and can't sync secondary vaults (no ETA but I'm also very unsure what the plan is here).

I'm also confused as to the strategy surrounding iTunes File Sharing successor. I don't get releasing half an implementation - sorry. To me, and I suspect your typical user, if you offer a backup feature it only makes sense if there is a restore feature to utilise it. I know, it's coming but I'm surprised it wasn't held back and all released at once as a working feature. Even then, will there be a time where those of us that want to keep our data stored locally yet completely synced between our devices?

Despite everything I've just written I'm a big fan of the software, I'm just waiting for when sync (for me) truly syncs everything.

Ben

I'm also confused as to the strategy surrounding iTunes File Sharing successor. I don't get releasing half an implementation - sorry. To me, and I suspect your typical user, if you offer a backup feature it only makes sense if there is a restore feature to utilise it.

I think this is a perfectly legitimate question. Of course restore is just as important a feature as backup, but we have limited resources. We had the option of waiting to release backup until restore was done, or allowing folks to backup their data now with the promise of being able to restore it in the future. Obviously we picked the latter route. If limited development resources were not a factor of course we would've released both at the same (early) time.

Unfortunately good iOS developers don't grow on trees. :)

Despite everything I've just written I'm a big fan of the software, I'm just waiting for when sync (for me) truly syncs everything.

Thanks for the kind words! We do certainly understand that there is a market out there for folks who want nothing to do with cloud based storage. We've made some headway in that regard (WiFi sync) but we are still growing.

Stephen_C

For me the crucial ability I need from 1P4 is to get my Mac database on to my phone and iPad, complete with attachments, without using any cloud sync service. (I tend to maintain the master copy of my vault on my Mac so am much more interested in going Mac > iDevice than the other way.)

If only wifi sync dealt with attachments I'd be very happy.

That said, I know AgileBits is working on a solution. It would be very good if that solution is as easy to work as was iTunes file sharing coupled with folder sync.

I know others are interested in this as well, and I know something along these lines is coming, so I'm merely chiming in with the comments!

Stephen

Ben

Thanks for the feedback, Stephen!

duelist77

Another iOS 1password update, wired syncing still broken.

It's getting more difficult to believe the assertions of the Agilebits staff here that they care about wired/non-cloud syncing and take it seriously.

Jasper

Thanks for the feedback, duelist77. The latest update (4.5.3) only included some minor fixes (no new features). We do understand the need for a non-cloud sync option, and are working on it, but I don't have a timeline for any update. We are very sorry for the inconvenience!

todotwo

@duelist77: Totally on your side! Was I happy 1password user for many years now. But especially nowadays when local (non-cloud) syncing is more important than ever and when it could be a real business differentiator as well, this part is lacking quality. Unfortunately, there is no real alternative yet. I thought the guys at agilebits where very keen on security. But this is sad.

Jasper

Thanks for the feedback, @todotwo.

ravibhatt

Not wanting to sound impatient, but any progress on this please?! We're all keen to get this feature back!